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fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·QuantumVoice
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

Click for full size
This is a picture of the flush mount servicing my home. My drop is at lower right. The mule tape includes an orange copper wire, maybe 20 or 22 AWG.

Notice the two bare copper wires. Contrary to my previous description, these wires are not in the conduit - they are alongside the conduit. I believe both wires come from the upstream flush mount along with the three drops entering in the upper left.
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ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to fbruno

Re: Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

If you notice in the photo, the fiber going into the conduit on the left has the tracer on it. (look at the edge) The fiber going into the UPPER RIGHT conduit does NOT have the tracer on it, therefore the conduit , and fiber on the UPPER RIGHT is NOT traceable.



jjf

@verizon.net

does not matter whether tracer is is there or not, verizon is responsible for their lines. period. if marked and hit, it's on the contractor who hit hit, when it comes to pay at the end for the repair, if not marked and after 72 hours is struck, verizon is stuck with the bill. when the lines are placed whether open trench or directional bore a locate wire is to be placed. Verizon does not check on it's sub contractors, at all when this is being done. when a locator comes upon lines with no tracer, they are suppose to call verizon. even their locators are sub contractors, very poor at what they do. if lines are marked, a test hole is require, to verify the mark, usually utility companies have 18" on each side of the mark, total 3 feet. verizon's locators like to place a 5 foot wide of marks, to cover their butts.



jjf

@verizon.net
reply to fbruno

Those #6 copper wires in that hand hole are grounding wires, no way would verizon place hundred's of feet of that expensive wire along their hard shell duct. They do use a much thinner copper wire with orange coating but even that is usually placed in the duct. When directional boring they usually pull a thin ground wire in alongside the product. Mule tape with the locate wire in it is the way they go most of the time, even when the fiber is pulled with the mule tape, another mule line is to be pulled to replace it. If done correctly by verizon's sub contractor's these problems would not happen. Again, verizon has no field inspectors to verify their products are being placed properly. These sub's are placing main lines in for a few bucks and service lines for pennies, so alot of corners are cut to finish the job, even if not correct.



jjf

@verizon.net
reply to ITALIAN926

does not matter whether tracer is is there or not, verizon is responsible for their lines. period. if marked and hit, it's on the contractor who hit hit, when it comes to pay at the end for the repair, if not marked and after 72 hours is struck, verizon is stuck with the bill. when the lines are placed whether open trench or directional bore a locate wire is to be placed. Verizon does not check on it's sub contractors, at all when this is being done. when a locator comes upon lines with no tracer, they are suppose to call verizon. even their locators are sub contractors, very poor at what they do. if lines are marked, a test hole is require, to verify the mark, usually utility companies have 18" on each side of the mark, total 3 feet. verizon's locators like to place a 5 foot wide of marks, to cover their butts.


fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·QuantumVoice
reply to jjf

You have an excellent point - why would they use such an expensive conductor as a trace wire. What was I thinking? They appear to run together between the upstream flushmount with the terminal and the pictured flushmount acting as a pull box. They are not connected to anything at either end.



danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

If you notice in the photo, the fiber going into the conduit on the left has the tracer on it. (look at the edge) The fiber going into the UPPER RIGHT conduit does NOT have the tracer on it, therefore the conduit , and fiber on the UPPER RIGHT is NOT traceable.

The black fiber cable has a tracer wire in it. So the conduit doesn't have to have a tracer wire in it. This is perfectly traceable. Its all the same class and probably came off the same spool. You simply insist that this isn't traceable when no one has ever seen external fiber without it.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

said by danclan:

said by ITALIAN926:

If you notice in the photo, the fiber going into the conduit on the left has the tracer on it. (look at the edge) The fiber going into the UPPER RIGHT conduit does NOT have the tracer on it, therefore the conduit , and fiber on the UPPER RIGHT is NOT traceable.

The black fiber cable has a tracer wire in it. So the conduit doesn't have to have a tracer wire in it. This is perfectly traceable. Its all the same class and probably came off the same spool. You simply insist that this isn't traceable when no one has ever seen external fiber without it.

Did you read what I wrote? The fiber AND conduit on the upper right of the photo is NOT TRACEABLE.

There are 4 conduits in the photo, the upper right has no traceable mule tape , or traceable fiber. PERIOD. If Verizon , or subcontractor came to mark that one out, THEY WOULDNT.

fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
reply to danclan

It seems to me that having tracing capability embedded in the conduit during manufacturing would be worth the extra upfront money.

It would be cheap insurance against an installer not including a tracer wire during conduit or drop install.


lijacobs

join:2010-07-30
Lawrence, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

There are 4 conduits in the photo, the upper right has no traceable mule tape

Just wondering how you can tell from that grainy photograph that the cable in question has no tracer. It looks like exterior grade fiber ribbon cable to me which of course has a tracer. The quality of the picture however makes it impossible for me to be 100% sure.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Your post made me investigate further, and zoomed in by clicking on it. NONE of those fibers have tracers on it. At first glance, I thought the tracer edge was on the ONE fiber present, but I see now there are two on top of each other. Traceable fiber drops have a line on one side , thats where the tracer is.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to lijacobs

Click for full size
Here is what traceable fiber drops look like.

So 2 / 4 of those conduits are traceable, and guess what happens when the next technician pulls another fiber through with the mule tape, and doesnt pull new traceable mule tape through in its absence? You end up with a network of underground conduit that CANNOT be easily traced out.


jjf

@verizon.net
reply to fbruno

suppose to be a ground system for that handhole. the contractor placed a single piece of #6 copper ground wire around the hole, maybe 6'-8' total, then tied the two ends together in the handhole, useless system. use to place a ground rod with a acorn and copper wire now they do it this way. usually they don't do that in the small hand holes, usually in the 2x3 and larger holes only. everyone does it different, believe me, verizon has no set ways, and if they did, no enforcement.



jjf

@verizon.net

Here in Delaware, verizon's locator, danella line service is responsible for marking and locates. verizon's thought is, if a contractor strikes their lines while marked, it's the contractor's fault, if the line is not marked after 72 hours, it's danella's fault. If the line is untraceable, then danella is suppose to call verizon. Then verizon calls their contractor [danella line service] to go out and FIX the problem, if pipe is in place, then they rod it and pull traceable muletape in. Most if not all their MAIN LINE FIBER is in hardshell [bore duct], or pvc, very rarely you see their mainline fiber buried direct. Now their service lines to houses is a different story, are in 3/4" or 1" bore duct [orange color] and also BURIED direct, inches, under the sod or grass, when it's suppose to be at least 12" deep, again, their contractors place it shallow, with no inspectors. Here in Delaware, danella does their locating and verizon's duct and cable placement. Today, it's not unusual to see several verizon trucks out on a cable hit, BIG $$$$$$, being charged, even though most of those tech's are just sitting around, doing nothing.

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fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
reply to jjf

Re: Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

That must be the most ineffective grounding method in the world!

Just out of curiosity, in larger hand holes should the ground wire be bonded to the terminal housings?


fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
reply to ITALIAN926

Good catch. As I recall, two drops exit through the lower left conduit to service two houses to the left of the hand hole. There is a small, square hand hole at the first house where the two drops go their separate ways in separate conduits.



danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

Your post made me investigate further, and zoomed in by clicking on it. NONE of those fibers have tracers on it. At first glance, I thought the tracer edge was on the ONE fiber present, but I see now there are two on top of each other. Traceable fiber drops have a line on one side , thats where the tracer is.

1. Conduit doesn't have to be traceable. 2. The tracer can be edge mount or wrap.

All optical cable that's rated for in ground or aerial has tracer wire that I have seen. Never NOT seen one.

You can argue till blue but unless you have actual facts its just speculation on your part. Sorry.

Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

Here is what traceable fiber drops look like.

So 2 / 4 of those conduits are traceable, and guess what happens when the next technician pulls another fiber through with the mule tape, and doesnt pull new traceable mule tape through in its absence? You end up with a network of underground conduit that CANNOT be easily traced out.

I was wondering what that thick cable attached to my fiber was.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to danclan

Aerial DOES NOT have tracer wire, and thats what you see in the photos. Except the one I posted.

Got it?


lijacobs

join:2010-07-30
Lawrence, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by ITALIAN926:

Aerial DOES NOT have tracer wire.

The aerial cable that is placed in the neighborhood where I live has a tracer.

fieroloki

join:2007-07-29
Van Alstyne, TX
reply to ITALIAN926

I have installed aerial and burial in the past. Both had a tracer wire. All really depends on code and who is doing it.



jjf

@verizon.net

In Delaware, all aerial fiber has no built in tracer, [no need for tracer] which is placed by verizon workers only, no contractors place any main line fiber, verizon's workers pull all main line fiber through duct, contractors verify path way and mule tape for verizon, also no tracer is built into the fiber. Now service lines to houses, verizon does aerial to house, contractors do the dirt work to the house, bore, plow, trench w/trencher, hand dig, and so on. Even the fios line has no tracer, here in Delaware. You would think it would be uniform thru out the states, but it isn't. Here it's done this way, there it's done that way and so on. If verizon didn't pull in main line fiber, nearly all their work would be done by the contractors, which I think verizon is slowly doing. Copper is still placed here in Delaware, in new developments, all placed by contractors. The old bell companies were the best, now this verizon is worse then the tv cable companies, they are the lowest and worst now, here in Delaware. Very sadly run by very inexperience management. Actually, if not for the contractors, verizon would have MAJOR problems here in Delaware.



jjf

@verizon.net
reply to fbruno

yes, verizon workers do that. usually those larger hole's are splice holes.