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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

4 edits

[HVAC] Are these quotes reasonable?

We are considering replacing our furnace and AC. It was installed in 1995, but has been working well with generally no issues during the last 12 or so years. It's a 5-ton Carrier unit in a 3,700 sf house.

However, recently the AC stopped working and we had a guy out to do repairs. He found that the fan motor in the condenser unit was seizing up which may also have resulted in the capacitor crapping out. He replaced both of those items and the AC is has been working fine for now.

The repair guy also inspected the entire system. One of the major problems is that the heat exchanger has cracks in it (I think there were six of them). We saw them on his digital inspection camera. Because it hasn't been 20 years, the exchanger itself is under warranty.

We decided then to schedule an appointment with one of their sales/engineering persons. This person came in and talked about our current system and the differences we would see if we went with a new one. I agree that some of the things that he pointed out impact our airflow, etc. as he mentioned.

The cost for the AC repair was $800. For the furnace, the cost for changing out a few additional parts that seem to be wearing as well as replacing the cracked exchanger with the warranty replacement will cost another $1100-$1200.

The company is a reputable one and highly reviewed on Angie's List. We'used them in the past off and on for about 15 years. It's a 30+ year old company. So I don't necessarily have an issue about them making things up or trying to recommend unneeded work.

Here is the quote he sent us:

As you may recall, the reason why I was there was because our service technician found some safety issues with the furnace heat exchanger and issues with the a/c system. Additionally, there was some discussion on improving the air flow through the system and how best to that. When we met, I noticed some areas of concern that were restricting air flow, such as how the old a/c coil was positioned over the furnace and how large the supply duct work was compared to the size of the furnace and it's blower delivery. We spoke of how to improve these areas of concern by using properly matched cased coils above the new furnace and talking to you about the advantages of the newer blower motors used in our furnaces today. Having the proper matched components installed together will ensure that you get the best air flow rates and capacities out of the system, which certainly will help moving more air flow to your son's room. All of this being said, I firmly believe that you should replace both units at the same time to mitigate the problems and gain the greater comfort and reduced utility bills.

Listed below are the options I believe are good choices. I have listed them as base, good, better and best in technology for you to review. The options are as follows:

Option #1---Base choice

Furnace------------------Carrier 80% 2-stage Performance model.
Air Conditioner--------Carrier 13 SEER 5 ton Comfort series unit
Evaporator coil--------Carrier 5 ton cased TXV coil.
Thermostat-------------Carrier Venstar digital and programmable.
Air cleaner--------------Reuse existing media cabinet.
Humidifier---------------Carrier automatic large power model

Warranty 10 years on all parts. 20 year heat exchanger warranty. Up to 10 years labor with cleanings.

Installation will included removing all of the old units and hauling them away. Custom installation of all new equipment listed in the package. We will make all needed flue pipe, sheet metal modifications, electrical connections and gas pipe hook ups as past of the job, We will make all needed refrigerant line connections and set a new support pad for the a/c unit outside as we discussed. We will cycle and run test the whole job and adjust the system as needed. We will broom sweep the work area and then review the whole job with you upon completion. Payment by check is due upon completion.

I will personally be there at the start of the job to introduce the installers to you and go over the complete job with them---and answer any additional questions you may have. This job will take the 2 man crew approx. 6 hours to complete.

The installed cost for this package, including tax is $ 7,066.00 after all available discounts that can be applied.

*This package does not qualify for any utility, manufacture or federal rebates

*This package offers better heating with the stage operation on the furnace and stronger blower motor. The new a/c unit is 35% more efficient than your old one--and being the newer refrigerant model--will offer better cooling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option #2---Good choice

Furnace------------------Carrier 95% 1-stage Comfort series unit.
Air Conditioner--------Carrier 13 SEER 5 ton Comfort series unit
Evaporator coil--------Carrier 5 ton cased TXV coil.
Thermostat-------------Carrier Venstar digital and programmable.
Air cleaner--------------Reuse existing media cabinet.
Humidifier---------------Carrier automatic large power model

Warranty 10 years on all parts. lifetime year heat exchanger warranty. Up to 10 years labor with cleanings.

Installation will included removing all of the old units and hauling them away. Custom installation of all new equipment listed in the package. We will make all needed flue pipe, sheet metal modifications, electrical connections and gas pipe hook ups as past of the job, We will make all needed refrigerant line connections and set a new support pad for the a/c unit outside as we discussed. We will run all needed PVC venting to the outside for the new furnace venting. We will cycle and run test the whole job and adjust the system as needed. We will broom sweep the work area and then review the whole job with you upon completion. Payment by check is due upon completion.

I will personally be there at the start of the job to introduce the installers to you and go over the complete job with them---and answer any additional questions you may have. This job will take the 2 man crew approx. 8 hours to complete.

The installed cost for this package, including tax is $ 8,264.00 after all available discounts that can be applied.

This package does qualify for a 320.00 Nicor discount--that we can give you upfront---reducing the cost you pay to us down to 7,944.00. This furnace also qualifies for a 150.00 federal tax credit off your taxes.

*This package offers better heating efficiency of 25% and a stronger blower motor. The new a/c unit is 35% more efficient than your old one--and being the newer refrigerant model--will offer better cooling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option #3---Better choice

Furnace------------------Carrier 96% 2-stage Performance series unit, with the Boost ECM motor.
Air Conditioner--------Carrier 14 SEER 5 ton Comfort series unit.
Evaporator coil--------Carrier 5 ton cased TXV coil.
Thermostat-------------Carrier Venstar 2-stage digital and programmable.
Air cleaner--------------Reuse existing media cabinet.
Humidifier---------------Carrier automatic large power model

Warranty 10 years on all parts. lifetime year heat exchanger warranty. Up to 10 years labor with cleanings.

Installation will included removing all of the old units and hauling them away. Custom installation of all new equipment listed in the package. We will make all needed flue pipe, sheet metal modifications, electrical connections and gas pipe hook ups as past of the job, We will make all needed refrigerant line connections and set a new support pad for the a/c unit outside as we discussed. We will run all needed PVC venting to the outside for the new furnace venting. We will cycle and run test the whole job and adjust the system as needed. We will broom sweep the work area and then review the whole job with you upon completion. Payment by
check is due upon completion.

I will personally be there at the start of the job to introduce the installers to you and go over the complete job with them---and answer any additional questions you may have. This job will take the 2 man crew approx. 8 hours to complete.

The installed cost for this package, including tax is $ 9,414.00 after all available discounts that can be applied.

This package does qualify for a 320.00 Nicor discount and a Carrier rebate of 150.00--that we can give you upfront further reducing the cost you pay to us down to 8,944.00. This furnace also qualifies for a 200.00 federal tax credit off your taxes.

*This package offers better heating efficiency of 25%, 2-stages of heating and the more advanced blower motor. The new a/c unit is 40% more efficient than your old one--and being the newer refrigerant model--will offer better cooling, when you combine this unit with the advances blower drive--you get the 14 SEER rating

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option #4---Best choice

Furnace------------------Carrier 98% 60-stage Infinity series unit, with the variable speed drive.
Air Conditioner--------Carrier 16 SEER Comfort series unit.
Evaporator coil--------Carrier 5 ton cased TXV coil.
Thermostat-------------Carrier Infinity "touch" interface with Wi-Fi capability.
Air cleaner--------------Reuse existing media cabinet.
Humidifier---------------Carrier automatic large power model

Warranty 10 years on all parts. lifetime year heat exchanger warranty. Up to 10 years labor with cleanings.

Installation will included removing all of the old units and hauling them away. Custom installation of all new equipment listed in the package. We will make all needed flue pipe, sheet metal modifications, electrical connections and gas pipe hook ups as past of the job, We will make all needed refrigerant line connections and set a new support pad for the a/c unit outside as we discussed. We will run all needed PVC venting to the outside for the new furnace venting. We will cycle and run test the whole job and adjust the system as needed. We will broom sweep the work area and then review the whole job with you upon completion. Payment by check is due upon completion.

I will personally be there at the start of the job to introduce the installers to you and go over the complete job with them---and answer any additional questions you may have. This job will take the 2 man crew approx. 8 hours to complete.

The installed cost for this package, including tax is $ 12,468.00 after all available discounts that can be applied.

This package does qualify for a 420.00 Nicor discount and a Carrier rebate of 450.00--that we can give you upfront further reducing the cost you pay to us down to 11,598.00. This system also qualifies for a 500.00 federal tax credit off your taxes.

*This package offers better heating efficiency of 30%, 60-stages of heating and the best advanced blower motor. The new a/c unit is 50% more efficient than your old one--and being the newer refrigerant model--will offer better cooling, when you combine this unit with the advances blower drive--you get the 16 SEER rating

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --

Here is another option for you to consider. When I called into our supplier to get the best pricing for you, they mentioned that they have a special program on the following package from Bryant. Carrier and Bryant are sister companies, Carrier being the main named product---and Bryant being the next more competitive model. They are offering us some special pricing for this deal only--to offer you just another opportunity, The advantage here is...we can offer you a 96% 2-stage variable speed furnace, with a matching Bryant 14 SEER 5 ton a/c system with the complete installation package that I have mentioned in the other options....you would get the humidifier with this package too. This combination of equipment would be identical as the option # 3 listed above. The warranty would be the same as well, at 10 years on the parts and labor--and a life time warranty on the heat
exchanger. Your cost for this package is $ 8,469.00 fully installed. There is a 320.00 Nicor discount and a Bryant 150.00 rebate that we can give you upfront---further reducing your cost that you pay us to $ 7,999.00!!!

This system also qualifies for a $ 200.00 federal tax credit.

This is a super deal for brand new units....I personally would take advantage of it if I were you. They are only offering me this deal for as long as they have the units in stock---so if you are interested...please move as quickly as you can. Again, these are brand new factory units---and nothing wrong with them.
---------------------

So these are my questions:

1. Should I simply spend the $1,100 and get the furnace fixed (for a total of $2,000) to continue on as long as I can.

2. Are the quoted prices reasonable?

3. If so, which system is the best bang for the buck?

I plan on getting another couple of quotes--at least one from a smaller (but equally well-reviewed) outfit and also to price a Trane system.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

Re: [Heating or Air Conditioning] Are these quotes reasonable?

Here's my cynical response:

said by Badonkadonk:

Installation will included removing all of the old units and hauling them away. Custom installation of all new equipment listed in the package. We will make all needed flue pipe, sheet metal modifications, electrical connections and gas pipe hook ups as past of the job, We will make all needed refrigerant line connections and set a new support pad for the a/c unit outside as we discussed. We will cycle and run test the whole job and adjust the system as needed. We will broom sweep the work area and then review the whole job with you upon completion. Payment by check is due upon completion.

Implying they are doing you a favor by hauling away your old unit is ridiculous as they stand to make a nice chunk of change from the scrap value of the copper and/or aluminum. IMO this should be reflected in the total price as a discount but honestly I'm not sure what standard industry practice is. The rest of that stuff is common sense and bare minimum of the definition of "installation".

said by Badonkadonk:

a stronger blower motor... and being the newer refrigerant model--will offer better cooling.

Not sure what is meant by stronger blower motor but the size and capacity should be tailored to the conditioned space. Bigger is not necessarily better. The bit about newer refrigerant is just silly.
said by Badonkadonk:

They are only offering me this deal for as long as they have the units in stock---so if you are interested...please move as quickly as you can. Again, these are brand new factory units---and nothing wrong with them.

I always run from high pressure sales tactics. And why would the salesman think you believe there's anything wrong with this alternative option?

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to Badonkadonk

Cynical response is good.

I didn't think about the haul away thing. It's a good point and I wonder whether that's figured into the final pricing. I also said to my wife the comment about the refrigerant is BS.

Relative to our old unit, the new ones have stronger blower motors. One of the issues we have is that the main lain is very wide and the pressure through it isn't very high. So airflow into the second floor isn't as good as we would hope. I think he was addressing that.

I have no way to verify the last claim. So I'll give him a pass on that one. He wasn't high pressure at all in conversation or interaction with him.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

2 recommendations

reply to Badonkadonk

Goober it appears that you were given several viable choices and it's up to you to make the choice based on how much you want to spend on the new system. Any of the ones proposed will fill your need. Personally I would stay with the Carrier as Bryant is a lesser quality product.
The contractor hauling away the old equipment is standard practice and unless you want to personally deal with it they are doing you a favor.

I put a new Trane 16 SEER heat pump in last February and it was 10K replacing a Air handler installed in 1995 and a condenser unit installed in 2003. Your prices seem to be reasonable.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 edit

Thanks. Is the Trane a better unit? Looking through some older posts I get the impression that even more so than the 12 year warranty, the quality of the unit itself is possibly better.

Price isn't necessarily an issue here. I'd rather not spend a bunch of money, but once I'm near $10K a couple of thousand either way isn't going to make or break.

My main question is whether it makes sense to go new or ride out the old. And the other question is whether the cost differentials in the various SEERS ratings will be recouped over the next 15 years or so. Our rate is $.09/kWh. I think I've seen some calculators that attempt to provide that information, so I'll check those out too.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.



StillLearn
Premium
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL
reply to Badonkadonk

Would you tell us what furnace developed 6 heat exchanger cracks in 12 years?


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

I'll have to go home and look at it. I'll post back once I have it. The furnace is about 19 years old.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


averagedude

join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Badonkadonk

I always recommend a "NATE" certified tech (»www.natex.org).
That does not mean things can't go wrong, but at least they took the time and were serious about continuing training. NATE is similar to ASE techs that work on cars.

Trane and Carrier as considered "equals" in my industry.
Each has a high, medium and low brands - just remember to compare apples to apples.

There are less expensive brands, bryant, day and night, and others.
One thing to consider is a cheap system that is installed properly and is "performing" properly will last longer and cost less to operate than an expensive system not installed properly and not performing.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

The company that provided this quote is NATE certified. It's on their website so I'll assume it's true. As I mentioned, this is a good reputable company, so the NATE cert doesn't surprise me.

The companies I'm considering I believe are all high quality ones that have been in business for many years, received high marks on Angie's list and recommended by either someone I know or I have used them myself. That's about as good as I'm going to be able to do I think.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

I don't really know how good those prices are so I can't comment on that. What I do want to say is anyone living in Illinois or any other northern state would be ill advised to go with an 80% furnace. I would throw that option out right from the start.



jrs8084
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Badonkadonk

Others can answer about the various offers. But, one question in regards to your decision to repair or replace: The current unit was installed in '95, so it wasn't original to the house. I know you closed in your porch, and I think you mentioned you had another addition added on upstairs in the past. Have those addition(s) affected the sizing or other aspects of the HVAC?


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

said by Ken:

I don't really know how good those prices are so I can't comment on that. What I do want to say is anyone living in Illinois or any other northern state would be ill advised to go with an 80% furnace. I would throw that option out right from the start.

Yeah, that's not even in the running. It's got to be 90% plus. We have an 80% now, and I'm not doing that again. I've kind of mentally taken the gut punch and am mostly considering the "Best Choise" option, although I still need to go back to the salesman and ask him about the two higher SEER units in the same Infinity line.

said by jrs8084:

Others can answer about the various offers. But, one question in regards to your decision to repair or replace: The current unit was installed in '95, so it wasn't original to the house. I know you closed in your porch, and I think you mentioned you had another addition added on upstairs in the past. Have those addition(s) affected the sizing or other aspects of the HVAC?

Good memory! Yes, the house was built in 1984 and the system was replaced in 1995. I think we purchased the house in 2001 or 2002. The additions didn't really affect anything. At least not that we noticed in terms of how the system was operating. In terms of electric/gas cost, there was a slight increase, but nothing terribly significant.

The engineer/sales guy walked around with me and checked out the space and said that the 5-ton is still enough, particularly since the new units work better and are more efficient. It seems to make sense since the old unit is working fine.

The one thing I'm considering doing is having them put in a dual zone system. The person was supposed to have quoted me the cost of that, but obviously didn't.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


heating

@speakeasy.net
reply to Badonkadonk

I had the 98% infinity installed with the infinity thermostat and a new carrier media cabinet. The installer told me the media cabinet is included free with carrier furnaces and some less honest companies were charging for them. With the 10 years parts & labor lifetime heat exchanger for just about 5 grand from a reputable dealer. I guess it depends if the air conditioner and humidifier are worth almost 8 grand.



stev32k
Premium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Mediacom
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Southeast
reply to Badonkadonk

I had my 5 ton unit replaced in 2006. The new unit is Lennox XP16 heat pump with a SEER of 17.0 and HASP of 8.7. It has a two stage compressor and a viable speed fan in the air handler. We also have humidity control. We got the ten year parts and labor warranty and that has paid for itself several times. The outside fan has been replaced twice, the coils once, expansion valve once, viable speed fan controller once, and the drip pan once. Without the warranty the repair cost to date would be about $5,000.

My cost for the unit in 2006 was $10,458. There were a lot of less expensive options, but I really wanted something that was quiet, worked well, controlled the humidity, and would last. I'm not real happy with the maintenance requirements so far and I'm concerned about what happens when the warranty runs out, but it does do a good job.

One thing I like about the system is it is very quiet. Even with the air handler fan going full speed there is almost no noise. The humidity control works very well. My set point is 50% RH and I use to measure the humidity several times a day and never found anything lower than 49% or higher than 51%. Our house is 3,400 sq ft and the unit never has a problem keeping the temperature at 74 deg even on the hottest - most humid days.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to heating

said by Anon80:

I had the 98% infinity installed with the infinity thermostat and a new carrier media cabinet. The installer told me the media cabinet is included free with carrier furnaces and some less honest companies were charging for them. With the 10 years parts & labor lifetime heat exchanger for just about 5 grand from a reputable dealer. I guess it depends if the air conditioner and humidifier are worth almost 8 grand.

I think an additional quote will be telling. But I don't care much about them reusing the old media cabinet. Its fine. And even though a new one may be free when purchasing the unit, there's a labor cost there that is worthwhile not incurring.
said by stev32k:

I had my 5 ton unit replaced in 2006. The new unit is Lennox XP16 heat pump with a SEER of 17.0 and HASP of 8.7. It has a two stage compressor and a viable speed fan in the air handler. We also have humidity control. We got the ten year parts and labor warranty and that has paid for itself several times. The outside fan has been replaced twice, the coils once, expansion valve once, viable speed fan controller once, and the drip pan once. Without the warranty the repair cost to date would be about $5,000.

My cost for the unit in 2006 was $10,458. There were a lot of less expensive options, but I really wanted something that was quiet, worked well, controlled the humidity, and would last. I'm not real happy with the maintenance requirements so far and I'm concerned about what happens when the warranty runs out, but it does do a good job.

One thing I like about the system is it is very quiet. Even with the air handler fan going full speed there is almost no noise. The humidity control works very well. My set point is 50% RH and I use to measure the humidity several times a day and never found anything lower than 49% or higher than 51%. Our house is 3,400 sq ft and the unit never has a problem keeping the temperature at 74 deg even on the hottest - most humid days.

Our system is certainly not quiet. The interior fan is pretty noisy. And I'd like to get a better humidifier system (as quoted). That being said, we've never had a problem keeping the house cool on even the hottest days.

Why so many warranty claims? I want to get a Lennox quote, but I don't want to deal with a system that needs to be babied constantly.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


stev32k
Premium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL
kudos:1

I don't know why the maintenance has been so high. The repair guys tell me it is unusual for this model of Lennox unit to have so much trouble. We haven't had any service calls so far this year so maybe all the bugs have been worked out.



Derwood
Wherever you go, there you are
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Dayton, OH
Reviews:
·Dish Network
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

reply to Badonkadonk

Had my AC and Furnace replaced in late May. I went with what you list as the base choice. I paid more or less about the same. they put down a new pad for the compressor, and they had a small amount of sheet metal work to do because the new furnace was about a foot shorter than my 21 year old unit.
It's been great since then. No issues whatsoever. My gas and electric have all been lower since then. So far, I've saved about $400 in electricity costs.
I didn't go with the 95% because my gas bills were already so low that the difference in cost of the unit and additional installation work would never have been recovered. A couple of weeks ago when it was 95 outside and the dewpoint was 70, the house stayed cool.
And, mine is Carrier all the way. My house is about the same as yours, around 3400 sq/ft.
Just my opinion, and I have zero training in the way of HVAC, but it seems to me these more expensive units have a lot of added plumbing to them and it just seems to gum up the works. I have a friend with a 2 stage Trane system that has both electric and gas heat on the furnace.. It's given him nothing but trouble since he got it a couple of years ago. He's constantly calling someone to come fix it.
You old unit is nowhere near as efficient as even the base choice. I know for me, the base choice made the most sense and will give me a better ROI than the more expensive systems.



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Badonkadonk

Did any of the replacement companies actually do a Manual J load calculation and a Manual D to verify the ducting size?

Don't assume the old unit was sized correctly as back in the day "bigger was better". Now for energy efficiency and comfort a heating and cooling system needs to be properly sized. This will help control humidity, ensure an even temperature and minimize operating costs.

5 Ton may be too big in this day and age of high efficiency units.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.



ROCINANTE
Original Member 007
Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY
reply to Badonkadonk

said by Badonkadonk:

However, recently the AC stopped working and we had a guy out to do repairs. He found that the fan motor in the condenser unit was seizing up which may also have resulted in the capacitor crapping out. He replaced both of those items and the AC is has been working fine for now. The cost for the AC repair was $800.

These are fairly easy items to replace. I only needed a good multimeter to test the capacitor and contactor. I replaced mine (fan motor and capacitor) by doing some research on Youtube. It only cost me $120.
--
CRUNCH THIS!

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

said by Derwood:

I know for me, the base choice made the most sense and will give me a better ROI than the more expensive systems.

That's the thing. When I run it through this calculator »www.acdoctor.com/energy-calculator.php?, I don't see how I recover the cost differential of a higher SEER unit within a 15 year time span. I'm not sure I need all the bells and whistles of the more expensive units but I would like the better blower in the third option.

said by pende_tim:

Did any of the replacement companies actually do a Manual J load calculation and a Manual D to verify the ducting size?

Don't assume the old unit was sized correctly as back in the day "bigger was better". Now for energy efficiency and comfort a heating and cooling system needs to be properly sized. This will help control humidity, ensure an even temperature and minimize operating costs.

5 Ton may be too big in this day and age of high efficiency units.

No calculations. I'll ask him if he needs to do that and if not, why. But from all I've seen and read, a 5-ton unit is pretty normal for the size of house we have.

I'll ask the other 2 companies about the calculations prior to them starting their quoting process.

said by ROCINANTE:

These are fairly easy items to replace. I only needed a good multimeter to test the capacitor and contactor. I replaced mine (fan motor and capacitor) by doing some research on Youtube. It only cost me $120.

Yeah, I know they're pretty easy to replace and I've done that stuff in the past. This time though, given the age of the unit, I wanted someone to come in and really inspect and clean it. So that's what part of the cost was. He was there for several hours. I talked to him and watched what all he was doing trying to learn what all else he needed to check. It was then that the heat exchanger crack information came to light. There's also a capacitor on the blower motor that will likely go bad in the relatively near term.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to pende_tim

said by pende_tim:

5 Ton may be too big in this day and age of high efficiency units.

Efficiency has nothing to do with it. Too small will not cool or would need to start at noon to make the house comfortable in the evening greatly negating any savings.
In this day of variable speed blowers a slightly oversized unit may be the better choice for comfort and savings.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

An ideally sized unit runs continuously. This is how efficiency is calculated on newer units: from steady state running. If it is over-sized and starts and stops a lot, the 16 SEER can quickly become a 13 SEER and all the extra money you spent for the higher efficiency is wasted.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


themagicone

join:2003-08-13
Osseo, MN
reply to Badonkadonk

I installed a 98% furnace, 18+ seer AC, etc etc... My energy cost have gone up 30%. I've yet to explain it nor my HVAC contractor. I nearly eliminated every NG appliance, went from a 60% > heater to 98% yet gas use it still up. Only explanation that we can come up with is that the blower operates lower so it runs longer. Sure it uses less gas and is more efficient but uses more gas as it runs longer. Same with the AC. Just something to think about.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

Wow, that was NOT what I wanted to hear. But seriously, that's the not the norm so I'd imagine something else has to be going on. I have no idea what it could be, but I've never heard of that happening.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to pende_tim

said by pende_tim:

An ideally sized unit runs continuously.

You forgot to add "during the times of highest cooling demand". If its only 75 outside and your A/C unit is set to 70 and it runs continuously, you have a problem. 95 outside, different story---Yes, it should run much longer or near continuous.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to ROCINANTE

said by ROCINANTE:

said by Badonkadonk:

However, recently the AC stopped working and we had a guy out to do repairs. He found that the fan motor in the condenser unit was seizing up which may also have resulted in the capacitor crapping out. He replaced both of those items and the AC is has been working fine for now. The cost for the AC repair was $800.

These are fairly easy items to replace. I only needed a good multimeter to test the capacitor and contactor. I replaced mine (fan motor and capacitor) by doing some research on Youtube. It only cost me $120.

My old one had an out of stock motor harder to replace with oem years ago and the ac guy put in a quality brand name one and made it fit. Plus did capacitors just in case. I was going to say even with extra labor to make another motor fit and the capacitors it was less than $300. Either costs went way up or people back east just have money to burn.
The motor was properly sized just not oem and the mountings needed some adaption.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

tl;dr?

I said he did other stuff as well.
--
Yedinitsy do nulya. Good job, idiot.


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

1 edit

said by Badonkadonk:

tl;dr?

I said he did other stuff as well.

Sure he inspected it to see if they could sell you anything else.
My AC guy checks the whole system also. Even adds to his notes on the inside of the unit so next time he comes out he can see if there are any changes.
If the hvac guy knows that out of so many times checking for cracks for free he can sell a unit it is not out of the goodness of his heart.
Not saying the are rooking you. Just that some of that stuff is normal to do. Plus do it enough the odds are they either get a chance to fix something else or sell a whole new unit.
Like when I take my under warranty SUV to the dealership for the free oil change. They check everything for free. Found a broken motor mount. Sure the fix is free for me but the dealer ship gets to charge the manufacturer. So if out of every x free oil changes and x free inspections they find something needing fixed they at least break even on all the freebies and maybe come out ahead.
Expand your moderator at work


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
reply to mattmag

Re: [Heating or Air Conditioning] Are these quotes reasonable?

Yes, during highest demand conditions.