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thoughts

@videotron.ca

Basement Floods. City sewer Redo

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Long Story, lots of pictures.

A few years ago (about 3.5) I bought a house in what they call the Ottawa Valley. Little did I know there seemed to have been flooding issues in the area. From what I can make out from the city and some neighbours around me, my basement got flooded about 15 or so years ago during a 50-year weather event. The incident was never filled out by the previous owners (that's a no-no here and would likely get me a win in court if I found issues, but I never saw issues so their fix was good I guess).

So back around 3 years ago we had a 30-year rain event. Neighbours told me they saw my sump pump spit out water (I have like a pit in the furnace room with a sump in it). Anyhow after much worrying, not knowing what to do, wonder if I should hit court on the previous owners for an undeclared incident, I just raised the level of the sump and it hasn't gone on since. But I did notice water raise in that pit after every single rain.

Then I met a guy out behind me who happens to be the ex city engineer. So I got the story about the flooding in the area (mainly his road due to design) and how they went to court against the city and won. This led to many people being compensated by the city for each and every water/sewer back-up or basement flood.

The sewer system was what is called a pseudo-sewer system. It combined both grey water (storm water) and sewage.

In another topic here a few years back I got a great schooling on sewer systems, the same problems in the states, how weather events are getting more severe and frequent, failure rates of certain plumbing backwater valves and so forth. A couple of people here shared (PDF's) what their city was doing, planning, and consulting people on. Was a fantastic education on how it all works. But people in these area's didn't sue their city, it appears. Much is on the home owners dime over there.

Anyhow the above is now a true split sewer system.

Over the past couple of years they upgraded streets around me. The pit in my furnace room? It is now home to an ugly spider. I leave it there since it's cob web lets me know if the water raised or not. Water hasn't moved even after we got another 30-year event 2 years ago. But they still continued with the work as promised. This year was my street.

Installed in each home:
1. New water line (3/4 inch) with ball/gate valve shut off.
2. Mainline backwater valve, similar to this, »www.backwatervalve.com/products/···lve.html
3. The clean-outs and inspection ports.
4. French drain (weeping tile) hook-ups.
5. Backwater valves on all basement floor drains, and Backwater valves on all appliances like laundry room sinks etc.

They were supposed to do my basement shower but didn't. They said they will do it if I request it but they prefer not to break the tile there. They stated the MainLine one should be good enough. I'm undecided. Have this week to decide. What would you do?

6. Garages got upgraded with big grill-type floor drains

Those two cement sewers you see in the pic's... 6 men can stand in one easy. Retention fields are built into the bedrock. The main retention field sewer pipe can fit a train engine. I don't have pic's of those unfortunately. It's supposed to be the biggest one in Canada I think. They went all out.

Cost Millions. Out of my own pocket? Zero. Wonder if my property tax will go up now?

My floor was just re-cemented over this past Friday and they just started patching the wall. I haven't had a chance to check it all out yet to make sure things are perfect. I'll do that tomorrow. I may have questions and pics to post here on that since any fix needs to be addressed before they take off which is likely next week. So plumbing type people expect some questions.

Pics:
They dig down to virgin clay (including to the house) A pic above shows 3 levels of nice clay each pipe lays on. Think they told me this is 14-feet down.
Lay a bed of sand and compact that
Lay 3 pipes on road and to the houses (water, sanitary, storm)
come in my house and drink
Replace sewer & manholes
lay more sand then compact it
refill
repave peoples driveways
come in my house and drink
repave streets
Lay topsoil
re-sod
and whatever else.

Finally, a few years back a couple of people asked me to post this. I said I would. Promise kept.

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

"They were supposed to do my basement shower but didn't. They said they will do it if I request it but they prefer not to break the tile there. They stated the MainLine one should be good enough. I'm undecided. Have this week to decide. What would you do?"

if the mainline backwater valve get's stuck open, it'll backflow into your shower, notice the put the backwater valves on all the other drains?. and you mentioned taxes, well, I can't think of any sewer district that don't charge a LOT for water usage, that's where the district pays for the sewers.. apparently, you're in an area that needs sewers.. clay don't drain well at all.



StillLearn
Premium
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL

I agree. Don't leave the shower as the weak point.



thoughts

@videotron.ca
reply to iknow_t

said by iknow_t:

if the mainline backwater valve get's stuck open, it'll backflow into your shower, notice the put the backwater valves on all the other drains?. and you mentioned taxes, well, I can't think of any sewer district that don't charge a LOT for water usage, that's where the district pays for the sewers.. apparently, you're in an area that needs sewers.. clay don't drain well at all.

Yeah I checked it out yesterday after posting. The whole bathroom is left as is. Both the sink and shower. So two weak points there. Is a toilet supposed to be done?? I'll see what their argument is for not doing it, but they stated the mainline one is good enough since those two items are right on the houses main sewer line and not on a separate run like the others. This is what they told me at the time.

I have to get the engineer at my place tomorrow since a 35-ton digger rolled up on my driveway breaking the asphalt further up than what what the city cut off, planned to pay for and redo by about 3-feet. I also have to make a complaint for an elderly neighbour next door for a minor issue. They didn't put caps on the cleanout holes and just rolled his carpet back over it and put his trim back on the walls. If he ever steps on where the holes are he'll break an ankle. 3 hidden holes under the carpet.

As for water cost. Water meters, or usage rates, don't exist in Quebec. At least not yet. Maybe within a decade if they decide to go that route. It's all rolled up as a set rate in property taxes type thing. Having a swimming pool, no matter the size, is a set rate of 50$ more on your taxes.

What this project also addressed is the following:

In the Ottawa valley (both the Ontario side and Quebec side) when a major storm hits the water treatment plants just can't handle the flow, so they have to release the gates and let raw sewage flow into the ottawa river. On the Quebec side it takes a real major event. On the Ontario side, it just takes an average rain fall.

On the Ontario side they put in water meters and make people pay. Even if you don't use any water it's like a minimum of 30$ a month. This is supposed to have paid for all their upgrades and water treatment facilities. But, a decade later they have yet to do a single upgrade and everything flows into the river. Ottawa, Ontario, is a major river polluter of raw sewage. So Ottawa did a money grab and nothing more.

On the Quebec side what they were contemplating was investing tens of millions in various water treatment plants and sewage treatment plants, and face a mob of people with pitchforks if water meters and "pay for usage" comes in.

By separating the system properly (grey water and sewage) instead of it all being one, these facilities will now see a reduction in treatment requirements which will allow them time as the population grows more and more to plan for the inevitable (likely decades). Grey water does not need to be processed in sewage treatment plants.

If a major storm event happens, it would take one hell of a lot to release the gates to dump raw sewage into the river. Basically it shouldn't even happen again with this new system. So that leaves only Ottawa as the major polluter of the river. Something people over there have been paying for the better part of a decade and have nothing to show for it (cash grab).

In regards to the clay. Yeah we are in a clay area. That bed of clay is a good 14-feet down. However they did something that I never saw before. The entire street has a french drain. Both sides of the street. I asked about that and they told me it's new code as of 10 years ago. The french drain is basically right at the end of peoples lots, right under the curb.

As is the sump pump pit water hasn't risen by a centimeter in two years since this project started. I think it would take a good 50 to 75 year even to see that happen again. And the system is designed for a 100 year event.

The only other place in Canada that I know that is doing this also (planning for a 100 year event) is Alberta. They started their design phase just a couple of years ago I believe. Might be more, no clue.

Also, as detailed in this topic, we had two 30-year events in two years. The frequency and severity of major weather events is increasing. This is something the Quebec gov is forcing on municipalities. This is also something that the Americans friends here stated and showed in the engineering reports they uploaded here and who are in the same boat.

This whole project solved more than one issue.
River Pollution
sewage Treatment
Flooding
Insurance increases
Insurance payouts
City payouts due to flooding
and likely more that I don't know about.

Ottawa is still pretending to be planning upgrades as people get flooded, as they dump raw sewage in the water they swim in, and as they take peoples money via water meters, 10 years later.

My next little project at the end of the month is to submit all engineering reports and what-not to the Insurance Bureau of Canada so that everyone see's a rate decrease. The insurance company laughed at me and said they have never seen a decrease happen in their history of being an insurance company. Just you wait... Neighbours are already behind me to do this

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
reply to thoughts

Is that a water line in the sewer trench??? Talk about possibilities of cross contamination. In IL you'd be answering to a really big fine and relocation of lines.



thoughts

@videotron.ca

said by kherr:

Is that a water line in the sewer trench??? Talk about possibilities of cross contamination. In IL you'd be answering to a really big fine and relocation of lines.

As said above 3 diff layers.
To the house, 3 diff runs.

If you have something different in your area, can you post it please? Please include regs or other. Thanks.


thoughts

@videotron.ca

Anyhow I think kherr doesn't know what he's talking about, But I'll leave that to him to explain himself and show how IL does things different than the rest of the world.

In regards to my basement shower/washroom I got the following reply today:

People with unfinished basement got an 8-inch backflow preventor (the flap thing).

People with finished basements like myself got that Mainline back water preventor.

They stated the failure rate of this one is a minimum of 1 year. In other words as long as I keep the floats debris free (check it out once a year to make sure it's clean) I will not have an issue with a 75-year weather event due to its design.

That was their reasoning. They stated they went this route (that is, mainline backflow preventors for finished basements) as an easier route that saves everyone grief. (ie tile breaking etc).

Sound reasonable??