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jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI

jcremin to TheHox

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Re: Anyone service a school?

said by TheHox:

It was my assumption it was $250 total not $250 per T1. I'll double check that.

Be sure to do that. Like Inssomniak said, even $250 per line would be super cheap....
TheHox
join:2012-05-31

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said by Inssomniak:

I just was sick a bit on the floor..

Sick for what reason? Too much or too little?

Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium Member
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON

Inssomniak

Premium Member

said by TheHox:

said by Inssomniak:

I just was sick a bit on the floor..

Sick for what reason? Too much or too little?

Too LITTLE!!
TheHox
join:2012-05-31

TheHox

Member

Confirmed, They pay $250/m total for all T1s combined, not $1,750.
They do participate in e-rate.

Time to research e-rate I suppose.
cooldude9919
join:2000-05-29

1 edit

cooldude9919

Member

said by TheHox:

Confirmed, They pay $250/m total for all T1s combined, not $1,750.
They do participate in e-rate.

Time to research e-rate I suppose.

Are they expecting you do participate in the e-rate? If they cant get fiber out there, they really don't have any other options. 50mb/50mb for $500 is a crazy good deal for bandwidth that isn't within a lit data center, in any city anywhere. Again as Nunya said don't sell yourself short here. You really think the guy has the time or knowledge to do his own PTP? It would seem you have most of the leverage here (unless there are other wisp's in the area) so keep that in mind.

IMHO more than fair pricing with your costs in mind would be 50mb/50mb for $1000 and 100mb/100mb for $1700.

*EDIT*
Wait, are you providing them full internet bandwidth? Or are you just providing them a loop, or backhaul via a wireless link to a different school's fiber? Your one email talks about being a middle man? Obviously the pricing on these would be pretty different.
TheHox
join:2012-05-31

TheHox

Member

I would assume they are getting that deal via the e-rate. Which can be up to 90% off. If I was to participate in the e-rate, the e-rate would cover some of the costs and the school would pay the rest correct? So perhaps if I were to charge $1k for the 50/50 the e-rate would pickup most of that and the school may only pay $250 as well? That all depends on me participating in the e-rate...

Their IT guy has been here since the 90s. The school fully supports him, he has the knowledge and drive to get his own PTP link, he will just have to shuffle some time around to do so. But, is willing to entertain bids from me so he can skip all that work, as long as the price isn't outrageous I'm sure.

As far as the full internet bandwidth, not sure. My provider is the same provider they use, they may be able to keep the connection local and just transit to one of the other schools via the fiber and get bandwidth that way. Or I can just give them full internet bandwidth, I am not sure how all that works and how easy it would be for them to transit via our fiber provider.

I guess we'll have to see if he wants to pay me directly or wants me to participate in e-rate, and if so, how much of a pain is it for a small guy like me to deal with the e-rate.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

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What state are you in? Has the school district issued a Request For Proposal?
You may be required to bill out all your time on this contract as "prevailing wage" work. An RFP will spell out exactly what they want and the job requirements. There may be hidden issues and costs that they will try and throw at you after you submit a bid.
I do some municipal work and it's all required to be "prevailing wage". It's a PITA. This is from podunk class 4 townships all the way to an 80,000 pop chartered city.

There are a lot of costs for doing business with a governmental entity. They often want to be listed as "additional insured" (that costs money). They often want a performance or surety bond (that costs money). They often expect preferential treatment (that costs money).

I'm looking at a municipal contract sitting on my desk right now and it's 14 pages long. That's for simple electrical and communications services.

You mentioned you are new to this type of deal. That's why I said not to sell yourself short. Ignore the numbers they are throwing at you for their current service. Obviously it's not working for them and / or they are unhappy with the service.

Ask them to spell out their requirements in writing. Figure out what it will cost you and then mark it up 20% for oopsies and uh-os. After that add in the profit you need to make it worth your time. If you throw out something lowball just to get your foot in the door, you'll probably regret it.

We are all here to make money. Give your best and lowest price. If they balk at it, then let some other chump take the hit.
I've been in the electrical / communications business for long time. Many times after a customer "gets what they pay for" by going cheap, they'll come back to you with a little more respect (and $$$).
54067323 (banned)
join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

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said by TheHox:

They currently have:
7 T1s for $250/mThoughts?

Before I would accept that as gospel I would look up the tarrifs for the ILEC provideing the last mile to the CLEC offering those T's.

The reason I say that is those prices seem way underpriced for UNE's.
mj3431
join:2003-04-21
STL, MO

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Start here if you're interested in participating in e-rate: »www.universalservice.org ··· ult.aspx

You can also use the search tools to locate all of the data you need, even confirming what their current provider is charging them and what they are paying (discount level):
»www.universalservice.org ··· ult.aspx
Once you find out the entity number via search and the current providers SPIN you can use the search tools to verify current and past commitments for that organization for that provider and SPIN. If you really want to head off all of this trouble and they are paying $250/mo simply ask them what their current discount percentage is and/or entity number to figure out what the provider is charging for those circuits.

There are two methods to receive discounts under the program and include SPI (Service Provider Invoice) discounts and BEAR (Billed Entity Applicant Reimbursement). In the former you provide their discount percentage on their invoice and get reimbursed for that amount. In the latter they pay you the full amount and file separately for a check back from USAC.

Some quotes I've gotten for this type of application this week are listed below so you have an idea of where a competitive provider might be. This pricing is pre-discount symmetrical for a P2P fiber circuit for a project very similar to yours that I previously spoke of in this thread.
20M - $430
50M - $680
100M - $980
200M - $1325
250M - $1500

So you can deduce that at the 100M level for example and a 60% discount, that their out of pocket would be $392/mo with a USAC funding commitment of $7056 to cover the remainder for the service year. If the school is very rural their discount is likely higher as this amount is based on the number of students that qualify for free or reduced meals.

The 471 window for funding requests opens tomorrow and closes 3/26, so if you plan to participate you better get rolling. They also need to have posted a form 470 with a request for services for which you can provide before they can even file for said service, and it must be available publicly for 28 days BEFORE they can file the 471 (funding request). So in reality you need to have this wrapped up prior to 2/26 to make sure they are advertising for the services you're providing. Funding requests submitted by applications are for services being provided from 7/1/14-6/30/15 so you wouldn't need to provide the service until then, unless requested by the school.

One thing that may help you get the customer is to provide them with a month to month service at a discounted rate up front then provide a contract that beings 7/1 at a fair price so they can file for e-rate funding. You win by hooking the customer early and they can get e-rate assistance. If you don't participate in e-rate it will probably be pretty hard for you to compete in the education market.

If all else fails since this is your specialty, you may consider setting up a P2P link for them and charge them a few hundred a month lease fee for the equipment and for service. You wouldn't have to deal with transit costs or e-rate and they still get the same type of service they want. Obviously this isn't as lucrative but it really cuts the red tape down while still providing you with income and exposure.
jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI

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Yeah, I pay $2000/mo for 50 megs... I drool over the idea of 100 megs for $1000/mo.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

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The school may not be able to simply issue you a purchase order and have you supply service. They are probably constrained by the public nature of the organization, meaning they would have to offer an RFP/RFQ to allow others to compete for the business.
mj3431
join:2003-04-21
STL, MO

mj3431

Member

That would depend on local policy regarding spending limits and contract terms. It will also be easier if this is a MTM service. It is not necessary to make a RFP/Q available for e-rate eligible services so long as the waiting period is met.
prairiesky
join:2008-12-08
canada

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have you considered offering to just provide a link between a school that's on fiber. They you could just maintain the link.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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It's a huge pain in the ass in the beginning but once you get your Spin number and everything else done it can open some big doors to things your competition can't do.

viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA

3 edits

viperm

Premium Member

Okay I tried again to submit for spin but it kept asking yes or no to High Cost Program participants only" "and Low Income Program participants only." I answer yes fill out my bank account info etc but wont let me complete it unless I provide SAC numbers and names? where do I find those or what are they?

If I choose that I am not receiving income from these programs all is okay but then at the end is says to continue I need to be receiving from at least one of these groups?

what am I missing? I am not getting anything from anyone but just applying for a SPIN #
I assume I am filling out the "new service Provider" option?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

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I'm not sure where you find it. Our COO at the time had experience in setting everything up so I want evolved in getting it set up. If no one answers your question you can probably find the answer on the FISPA or WISPA mailing lists.

viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA

viperm

Premium Member

Okay cool. Yea it asks these questions as if your already participating to fill out, its very vague so I didn't check anything then at the end where I review and submit it throws this error

"You have not selected to participate in any of the four programs. In order to establish a SPIN you must be eligible to and participate in one of the four universal service support programs. Please complete a program section or contact USAC for assistance.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

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Did you try and contact USAC? If I remember correctly they were surprisingly helpful.

FLHSI
@flhsi.com

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You want to select only the schools and library program. USAC (USF fee) supports 4 type of programs: Lifeline (income eligible residential phone service); Rural Health Care (geographical/population eligible health care telecommunications needs); High Cost (essentially subsidies for CLECs in hard to reach, low population density areas) and finally what you are interested in: Schools and Libraries. Skip the first three and only apply for your SPIN in the School/Library support program. You can be paid 2 ways. The first is directly from the school at your full charge and then they worry about reimbursement from USAC (much better way). The second is school pays you their portion and you need to get reimbursement from USAC for the balance of your full charge. This involves another level of electronic filings with USAC which is a pain, but not too hard. If I recall correctly as must first get (or have) a FRN from FCC before you can get a SPIN. However, this may only be for the Rural and High Cost programs because you must be a USF contributor in order to receive USAC money under those programs. You do not need to be a USF contributor to receive USAC funding under schools/library program.