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thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

Anyone frequently use Radio over IP?

I've recently been gravitating towards only using repeaters that use IRLP, Echolink, or AllStarLink. In the past few months I had setup a simplex Echolink repeater with my TM-V7A (Kenwood Mobile) successfully (and was quickly dismantled after I had demonstrated that it works) and now attempting to make an AllStarLink node with my Maxtrac repeater, but I haven't had the time to fool with new cabling to get rid of the repeaterman controller that its currently connected with.

Also, I've been asking local clubs about how they feel using a RoIP only service, such as IRLP, versus using a true VoIP service such as AllStarLink or the lesser Echolink. I've been toying with repeaters in-between 2m digital (there isn't much in Dayton besides D-star and APRS) and SSTV over 2m. I just can't seem to find anyone around here that does data on VHF nor I can't ever seem to contact a repeater owner on the air (I'm not too shocked bout the repeater owners though. They are busy enough with maintaining their own repeaters, let alone use it.)

In the past week I had an idea that I just couldn't rid my self of. I was thinking about taking a normal RoIP or VoIP repeater and attempt to have a SSTV or a Packet net on some conference server for a digital beginner's net type of thing. I know it can be done with AllStarLink, as it has settings that let a user determine the codec and bitrate to be used, e.g. PCM and should 41khz be enough? so it should be completely feasible.

sabersaw
Premium Member
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH

sabersaw

Premium Member

The only data on 2m other than APRS and D-Star around here are a few nets that do MT63. Probably not what you are looking for but it could be a start. The nets are geared towards NBEMS. The repeaters aren't VoIP linked either.

"The Greene County ARES Weekly Net will meet on the BARC repeater this
evening at 9:00 PM, 147.045 (no PL). The Voice Net will be followed by the
GCARES Digital Training net on same repeater-at apx 9:15 PM or so-with
integrated voice and data-starting with MT63 2K mod"

This is a Tuesday night net.

Again, not exactly what you are looking for.. but that is the closest thing to "2m digital' going on. Have yet to hear someone try any of these modes through a VoIP link. Would be interesting for sure.

**Announcement**
A new digital net is being started (MT63-2000L mode); a recurring monthly Digital net...
to be held on the
444.875+ 94.8 Bellbrook repeater (there is a remote receive site on the DARA tower
in Huber Heights).
This net will also be linked to the 224.580- repeater in Beavercreek.

This net will be a digital net from the start, but voice will be welcomed
anytime it's needed.

The purpose of this new net will be to offer a session for those who already have
their digital equipment working OK - but yearn to get some serious
practice sending & receiving messages.

The net will occur the first Monday of every month; 9pm eastern.
444.875+ 94.8 Bellbrook, linked to
224.580- repeater in Beavercreek
MT63-2000L

You may be able to hit these machines from Morrow....
thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

For coverage in Morrow part, its possible. I'm in one of these valleys down here and I don't have a base set up yet. I could possibly do something fridays, but I usually participate in another net before hand on Mondays that has been difficult (other hams in the area attempting to hit the repeater make the nets difficult for listening in. The WC8EMA repeater is quite wonky at times.)

I was just thinking about starting a net for those who finally got their TNC connected to their radio and are looking on how to use their radio for more than just tx'ing on a repeater.

sabersaw
Premium Member
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH

sabersaw

Premium Member

Unfortunately there isn't much VHF/UHF stuff in the Dayton area. I really enjoy the digital modes on HF but have only used them on VHF/UHF a handful of times. Seems like MT63 is the prominent mode here. But there is no reason not to play with the other stuff.
thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

I'm not really surprised. Data on VHF is quite active down towards Cincinnati. They have packet nets on several repeaters, but I thought I'd see if in any other major cities had data on VHF/UHF bands.

Although, I am perplexed a bit. Dayton is supposed to be the holy grail for anything radio due to Hamvention. (I know W8BI's ad in the repeater directory still shows the ATV repeater.) Montgomery county has gobs of repeaters, but there isn't anything there geared towards ATV or packet (WOCARA has one listed on their webpage, but its been offline for who knows how long.)

sabersaw
Premium Member
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH

2 edits

sabersaw

Premium Member

I'm in Centerville and can hear Warren and Butler repeaters pretty solid. High level Hamilton county as well. Haven't stumbled across anything there but haven't sought it out.

Dayton repeaters were hopping in the late 80's and early 90s. The activity is pretty sad now. Seems like there is more 440 activity than 2m. There are some voice nets.. but I only listen to the scanner shortwave net. I usually talk to a buddy up in Troy every day or so on a 440 linked repeater system. But we play with the digital stuff on 40m. Good way to try them out.

I think D-Star has slowed down stuff such as P25 and messaging technologies in the ham community... just a theory and a whole different topic
thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

The Troy linked repeater is probably W8AK's. His system's goal was supposed to be linked down the whole length of 75 from Toledo to Cincinnati. That's actually the same guy I got my Maxtrac repeater system and I'm still a Technician with a 2m/70cm Kenwood TM-V7A and a wouxun UDP-1 (the same bands).

But not to get too far off topic and let others reply, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted the digital over the VoIP systems in the past.

KD8SEP

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

1 recommendation

SmokChsr to thals1992

Premium Member

to thals1992
I think you are somewhat mixing the apples with the oranges.. RoIP and VoIP are pretty much different names for the same thing. Add to that in my world I also have AoIP (audio, broadcast quality). Then you slide over into digital modes, Echolink and IRLP are simply a IP transport protocal, not a digital operating mode.

PCM 41KHZ is plenty good enough for audio transport, in fact it's going to be a bandwidth hog. PCM 41KHz translates to 20 Khz Non-compressed audio, or around 800 kbs for a single channel.
What that is not, is a means of sending the audio over the air. For that you'll need a modem. When you notice the the modem algorithms are typically in the 9.6 kbs range you'll see that the 41Khz PCM is not going to fit.

As for using the different methods to link things it's nice and fun to play with, but I would not rely on them for emergency communications. Realistically if normal communications fail, cellphone, internet, ect, then you can pretty much expect that the digital links will be down as well. Then it's back to doing real radio!
thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

I was just thinking that I could use VoIP as for tunneling. I don't know the total bandwidth required in the first place.

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

SmokChsr

Premium Member

said by thals1992:

I was just thinking that I could use VoIP as for tunneling. I don't know the total bandwidth required in the first place.

You might want to do some reading on bandwidth for different modes. I know this stuff is really confusing to those not familiar with it. It can drive you crazy getting up to speed.

What you are talking about are several different things.
First is a transport method, VoiP, RoIP, ect.. That is simply a method of getting the audio and control information from point A to point B via IP (internet). Echolink & IRLP are simply prepackaged RoIP deployments, which makes it easier for everyone to use.

Next is a transmission protocol, how digital audio is transmitted over the airways. (Note: with most services EchoLink, IRLP.. The audio is transmitted analog.) Their are many different modes of digital transmision, but each requires a (specific) modem at each end to operate.
thals1992
join:2012-08-07
Morrow, OH

thals1992

Member

I'm just referring to it as RoIP, because the method of their use. Their are all technically all VoIP due to the they way they connect to eachother using a standardized codec and a centralized server. I was kinda thinking that someone could just use allstarlink because its a true VoIP system that includes an SIP server. Anyways, these days a physical modem isn't even required. It just takes something like fldigi of mmsstv to act as a virtual modem.

My whole thoughts were to have a voice network that could also handle physical data (whether its binary data or just ASCII or Unicode text), essentially using something like echolink as a VPN; have someone key up a repeater have a bit of chatter asking if anyone is out there, then confirm with another ham that they have a setup where both ends are ready for the data, then proceed to send the text/data. Another way I was looking at this was D-Star, but with an analog transport instead of being fully digital.

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

SmokChsr

Premium Member

I think I see what you're saying now. It's an easily developed system if you're a good coder. The main problem will be publishing the "standard" and getting operators to adopt it.