dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5042
share rss forum feed


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

[General] Gas Stove on Propane

My Daughter just moved into a place with a propane 4 burner/oven range. This is the first time she has cooked with gas and as of now does not like it one bit. I have no real experience with gas either so I am not much help to her.

The biggest complaint is that the stove seems "too hot". The handles on the pots and pans need hotpads to make them so they can be moved, things cook really fast and water in a pot will boil when the burner is on low heat.

Since this is a propane stove and I believe propane burns hotter than Natural Gas, is it possible that the stove was not setup for propane?

Would it be really really obvious if the proper conversion was not done? What would the symptoms be is it were still setup on NG?

The range is probably 4 years old.

Tim
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
I doubt that that range is set up for NG.

The orifices have to be "tuned" to either NG or propane or you don't get the blue flame.

Most good to great cooks prefer a gas cooktop and usually and electric oven. There is a learning curve and hopefully she'll learn to love it.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to pende_tim
A good stove should go from simmer to hot. So it is either just a bad stove or needs fixed.


NGLPG

@rr.com
This is a typical symptom of a stove that was not converted from NG to propane. The orifices for NG are larger and therefore you end up with a larger, barely adjustable flame on propane. Call your friendly appliance guy.


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim
NGLPG is correct.




rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
Reviews:
·Power-Net Intern..
reply to pende_tim
Propane is hotter than NG gas and if she was used to an electric stove she will take a while to adjust. But gas will heat up faster and when she learns to start with a flame to match her needs she is apt to learn to love a gas stove.
I very much doubt that a stove that has been used that long needs ay adjustment for using propane, It was surely done when new.

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to pende_tim
Gas tends to heat the area around the pot much more than electric, so the handles do get MUCH hotter. It's just the nature of the beast. With electric, the heat is transferred directly to the bottom of the pot. With gas, the heat is transferred via the air and since hot air rises, much of the heat goes right past the pot. My wife thought she wanted a gas cooktop, until we got one. I just reinstalled the electric one. Yeah, she hated the gas that much.

Perhaps the propane is part of the problem, as that is also what we have, but our cooktop was converted for propane. It requires smaller orifices in each burner AND reversing a part in the pressure regulator to lower the pressure. Quickly heating small things went very fast on the gas cooktop. However, boiling a large pot of water for pasta took over 30 minutes. Our electric can do it in about 10 minutes.

Oh yeah, if her stove was not converted then the flames would be huge when running on propane.

MrFixit1

join:1999-11-26
Madison, WI
reply to pende_tim
Just going to throw a few thoughts out there
If the unit has not been converted , the flames will most likely look like C in pikes post .
Agree with NGLPG that you should have someone look at it . Even if it has been converted , it does not sound like it was done " correctly " Yes it may have come with a conversion kit , and it may have been installed , but if the installer did not have the proper equipment to check pressures and air mixes it may not be right .

As far as the low setting issue , check to see if that is the lowest marking on the knob . Not that unusual to have a simmer setting before low . We normally tried for a flame height of 1/8 inch or so on the lowest setting , but make sure that all ports have a " bead " of flame .
The last thing you want with LP is a source of unburnt gas of any kind !


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to pende_tim
Thanks for all the insights. The flames are blue with a yellow tip, if I recall the last time I looked at it so it may have been done, but was it done properly? That is anyone's guess.

I will get them to call the propane supplier to have them come look at the range.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

zach3
Zach
Premium
join:2000-05-04
Saint Louis, MO
reply to pende_tim
Hi Tim,

I remember my Mother complaining about a new Electric stove that my Father had just bought her to replace the old Gas stove. She said it took forever to cook compared to the Gas one!!!

I have managed to go through several Wife's in my lifetime and also various stoves both Electric and Gas. I learned that you don't switch Stoves on Wife's!!!

It is a matter of preference and getting used to based on my experience.

Zach

ps: Now I just go out to eat every night and solved both issues.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to pende_tim
Locate the model number of the range and contact the manufacture and find out the BTU output of each burner. Many owners of rental properties install low cost gas ranges with low output burners. See if the manufacture can supply you with a table that indicates how long it takes to bring a specific quantity of water to a boil based on burner thermal output.


stev32k
Premium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Mediacom
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Southeast
reply to pende_tim
In addition to checking the NG/propane orifice for proper size you should have them check the pressure regulator to make sure it is operating as it should. Those things can also cause problems.

I much prefer to cool with gas. The reason is the uniform heating of the bottom of the cookware. Most cookware does not have a perfectly flat bottom. That can result in some part of the pan not being in contact with the flat heating surface of the electric range or cook top. If even a very small part of the pan does not rest on the surface it will result in uneven heating of the pan. With gas the uneven surface is eliminated because the flame will impinge over the entire bottom even if there is a high spot.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to rfhar
said by rfhar:

Propane is hotter than NG gas and if she was used to an electric stove she will take a while to adjust. But gas will heat up faster and when she learns to start with a flame to match her needs she is apt to learn to love a gas stove.
I very much doubt that a stove that has been used that long needs ay adjustment for using propane, It was surely done when new.

I love gas, turn the stove off and the water boiling just stops.. things cook a lot faster.. the oven I have to take 5 min off the time that's given to cook.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim
typically, a stove set up for natural gas and used on propane won't even light. the pressure would be so high, the flame lifts off the burners so much that it blows right out. it may be partially set up for propane, with just a regulator adjustment made, and the flame very large, as propane needs a smaller jet. both propane and especially natural gas is MUCH cheaper than using electric, so it's definitely worth getting used to, also, they cook faster. pots and pans used on electric ranges need to have a flat bottom, if they don't, you get uneven heating, and wasted electric. many pots and pans warp a bit after many uses.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

The biggest complaint is that the stove seems "too hot". The handles on the pots and pans need hotpads to make them so they can be moved, things cook really fast and water in a pot will boil when the burner is on low heat.

That's the nature of gas, it heats faster electric and if you daughter is used to hitting high to get things cooking fast, then yes the heat that travels around the pots and pans will make for warm handles.

Since this is a propane stove and I believe propane burns hotter than Natural Gas, is it possible that the stove was not setup for propane?

Probably not, the orifice sizes are considerable larger with NG and if used with propane would give her one heck of a flame if it could even be lit.

Would it be really really obvious if the proper conversion was not done?

Yes, quite obvious.

That aside I am willing to bet once she gets used to gas she will not want to go back to electricity. That is until she notices her pots and pans sooting up on the bottom.

BTW if she wants to stop by my place I’ll let try out my new gas range with it’s 36,000 BTU burners, she will learn what heating up a pot of water, fast, really is.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to NGLPG
said by [NGLPG :

]This is a typical symptom of a stove that was not converted from NG to propane. The orifices for NG are larger and therefore you end up with a larger, barely adjustable flame on propane.


Bullcrap, if the orifice in the spud is drilled for NG it will pass so much propane it will produce a flame that will lift right off the burner.

Such a mistake would be quite obvious and not something like a burner that cannot be adjusted low enough.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

2 edits
reply to Subaru
Dupe post


nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim
What I do is adjust the flame size with the knob for the size of the pan. The flame doesn't need to be any wider then the bottom of the pot or pan.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by nonamesleft:

What I do is adjust the flame size with the knob for the size of the pan. The flame doesn't need to be any wider then the bottom of the pot or pan.

And that is the correct method, if the flame is riding the sides of the pan one risks edge burning the product being cooked, having the flame smaller then the bottom of the pan allows more heat to be transferred into the product being cooked.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to rfhar
said by rfhar:

Propane is hotter than NG gas and if she was used to an electric stove she will take a while to adjust.

While propane does provide more BTU’s per cubic foot, in a range application there is little difference in the BTU output of the burners because the smaller orifice in a propane spud limits the amount of gas passed, the smaller orifice also provides a higher discharge velocity to help push the heavier than air propane gas air mixture up into an un-heated burner, whereas with NG it rises naturally due to NG being lighter than air.

But gas will heat up faster and when she learns to start with a flame to match her needs she is apt to learn to love a gas stove.

Quite true it heats faster and stops heating faster allowing for a finer control over what being cooked, this is one of the reasons professional chefs prefer gas over electric.

I love gas, turn the stove off and the water boiling just stops.. things cook a lot faster.. the oven I have to take 5 min off the time that's given to cook.

I just completed installing propane in my home and replacing a GE 4 burner with a nice Vulcan commercial range.

»A Weekend Project Completed Early. ;-) AKA Cooking With Gas..

I derived a great deal of pleasure dropping that POS electric range curbside for the scrap man to haul off.

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2
reply to pende_tim
We have the best of both here - propane gas cooktop, electric wall oven with convection with a builtin micro / convection oven that we call "Wonder Oven". My wife (a pretty darn good cook) prefers here setup over anything we have ever had.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to pende_tim
A good stove should go from simmer to hot. So it is either just a bad stove or needs fixed.

harald

join:2010-10-22
Columbus, OH
kudos:2
reply to pende_tim
Inside a gas range there is, for each burner, a simple thing called a "hood" that looks very much like a pipe cap that is screwed over the outlet of the gas valve.It is sized, in coordination with the venturi and other parts of the burner to produce the correct gas flow on natural gas. Its size is a number, the size of the number drill used to drill the orifice.

If the range is convertible there will be a jet inside, drilled with the proper size for propane. To convert, the hood is tightened until it sits on the jet, using the jet's smaller orifice.

Best to call a tech. Easy to screw up.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by harald:

If the range is convertible there will be a jet inside, drilled with the proper size for propane.

Actually not, the spud will be drilled for NG and then can be tightened down to the needle within the spud to lower the flow to match what is required for propane.

The reason being NG has a considerably lower BTU output per cubic foot than propane, therefore a conversion from NG to propane requires tightening the spuds against the needle to lower the flow of propane to the burner.

harald

join:2010-10-22
Columbus, OH
kudos:2
The needle or jet is drilled to the correct size for propane.

I designed these valves many years ago.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by harald:

The needle or jet is drilled to the correct size for propane.

I designed these valves many years ago.

OK then how is that pre-drilled orifice made large enough to pass the proper amount of NG when there is down conversion???

Pressures equal, (7 to 11 inches) the only way to go from LP to NG is to enlarge the orifice the gas passes through, so a LP orifice by it’s size cannot go to NG unless the gas guy reams it open.

harald

join:2010-10-22
Columbus, OH
kudos:2
There are two orifices and a crude valve. The LP orifice is in the jet, the NG orifice is in the hood. When the hood is screwed down until its internal seat closes against the jet, the needle orifice rules. When it is backed off, the hood orifice rules.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by harald:

There are two orifices and a crude valve. The LP orifice is in the jet, the NG orifice is in the hood.

Nope there is only a single hole drilled in the spud which is sized to the type of gas it is to pass which in the case of NG will be drilled to the larger orifice size.


Gas spud sized for propane.



With the burner in place.

MrFixit1

join:1999-11-26
Madison, WI

1 recommendation

You and harald are both correct
Just depends on what the manufacturer decided to use .
Talking primarily about commercial grade ranges , we found that most ranges sold as dual gas capable came with the adjustable gas valves .
Most of the manufacturers that specified different burners for different types of gas ( even if it was only for some products ), tended to use non-adjustable orifices .
In the case of domestic ranges , it can really get confusing

This in no way is a recommendation of the site since I have never dealt with them , but seems to be a good resource for domestic parts »www.deyparts.net/catalog/range_o···r_valves

This may be helpful to the OP , and others that wonder just what is wrong with their range or grill ( most of the concepts apply to all brands )
»repair2000.com/Library/Gas_Range···cing.pdf

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim
If the range is 4 years old and other tenants had no problem with it, there is nothing wrong with it, and it does not need to be repaired. Your daughter needs to be taught to cook with a gas range. My parents had a summer home with an electric range. We lived in an apartment in the city during the week. The apartment had a gas range. My Mother had no problem cooking with either type of range. I learned to cook on both ranges. Cooking with gas is different than electric cooking. When using the electric range I was taught to turn the burner on high for a minute or two for quick heating and then reduce the setting, unless I was trying to boil water. On the other hand I was taught to set the gas burner to the desired output immediately and not turn the flame on maximum because the heat output was instantaneous. Otherwise the food would burn. Do you have a friend or relative that can teach your daughter how to use a gas range? That would be the best solution.