Re: [Serious] Should consumer border limits be abolished?
DJ goes i can't compare companies from a 100yrs ago, so I picked a couple of the Dot.CON era that don't have their hands out.
Regardless of what Amazon is doing, they aren't going to the provincial/federal governments and saying 'give me money or I shut down my warehouse/relocate jobs' ,corporate blackmail if you will. Why Ford et al are exactly saying this, it's exactly what's going on. -- No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......
Regardless of what Amazon is doing, they aren't going to the provincial/federal governments and saying 'give me money or I shut down my warehouse/relocate jobs' ,corporate blackmail if you will. Why Ford et al are exactly saying this, it's exactly what's going on.
Pretty sure this puts you in the "wrong" category (as in, you are wrong):
quote:Virginia officials approved $4.4 million in taxpayer subsidies so Amazon could build two warehouses in the state. California reached a deal where the online company was free from sales taxes for a year, saving about $200 million. Texas officials forgave $269 million in back sales taxes to get a new warehouse. New Jersey officials put up millions more in breaks.
quote:On Wednesday, Hillsborough County commissioners will consider a package that could include up to $7.5 million in local and state tax breaks for Amazon to build a new warehouse in Ruskin for 1,000 employees. Hillsborough's offer was disclosed last week, shortly after Gov. Rick Scott announced that Amazon wants to create 3,000 jobs in the state by 2016.
It's not so much the company's demanding money from the government, it's the governments competing with each other to offer the biggest incentive for a large company to expand or relocate to their area.
As someone who was in an area through the GM heyday, it was a huge boon to Niagara when they were in full swing production so I support any cuts that are required to entice such a large business to an area, province or country that positive affects its citizens.
First I don't think RIV applies to new cars imported by the car makers
Car manufactures must have their vehicles approved for the pre-clearance list and not RIV. See here, »www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safe···-447.htm Tesla has gone to all the trouble of getting their Model S on the pre-clearance list but won't take the additional minor administrative step of placing it on the RIV list and so denies us mere mortals from importing their Model S into Canada.
Dropping RIV may flood the Canadian market with people importing cheaper US cars, but unless I live near the border like Gone and UB, I wouldn't do it.
Regardless of whether you personally decided to import a US car or not, all of us including yourself would benefit by the removal of the RIV since it would lower the market price of all vehicles, imported or not, in Canada. The price would fall to the point where importation would slow to a trickle because there would be no economic advantage for anyone to import a US vehicle. The car manufacturers know this and place many barriers to hinder importation. Thus the RIV must go! And national treatment for US cars as the free trade agreement intended.
It's far to much money to spend on something that would be sold "AS IS".
“AS IS”- If you mean without any warranty not necessarily. Some manufacturers offer North American warranties and some offer transferable warranties. See here, »www.ucanimport.com/Warranty_Policies.aspx
Where there are higher costs are the that cars here have to be metric, have bilingual packaging (though I'm pretty sure American cars have a healthy dose of Spanish,but that's easily fixed buy creating "world" packaging like many Tier1 computer makers do. Or that we require DRL while the US DOT doesn't (and has rejected petitions from GM to do so). And there are probably other safety features required up here, that the US market doesn't that I can't think of.
Metric- mostly wrong, not an issue for almost all cars
DRL- NHTSA deemed their was no evidence that they improved safety and therefore denied GM's request for a national mandate and left it optional. However quite a few States have effectively implemented DRL mandates with many manufacturers now offering DRL equipped vehicles exclusively in the USA. Reprogramming for DRL, if necessary, is usually pretty easy. See here,
All in all these alleged safety measures are all crap and simply designed to keep US cars out of Canada.
Level 4 autonomous cars are on the way and will require US and Canadian vehicles to be identical from an operational viewpoint with the same V2X, AIM protocols and everything else. What will be the point of the RIV then? Get rid of the RIV now so all car buyers in Canada can benefit by the lower prices.
I still don''t believe we'll see lower prices, there will some other non tariff impediment to getting those cars in to Canada, whether its on the part of the government, or the car manufacturers.
You’re contradicting yourself once again. You mentioned a couple of times already in this thread about the coming flood, if the RIV is canned, yet now you say there will be no flood because of additional impediments.
With the RIV gone, I would expect a rapid decrease in Canadian prices as car dealers would apply tremendous pressure on car manufacturers to stop the flood real or expected and to equalize prices with the US. Their ultimate threat to any reticent car manufacturers would be that they would start to source US product themselves.
You can go through MFG websites to compare and "price" - but it's difficult - the manufacturers purposefully distort their option packages between the US and Canada. For example, my Kia Sorento - I bought the "lowest trim level" available in Canada - the LX, 4Cyl, AWD - that includes things like Sirius Radio, Heated Seats, iPod integration, Bluetooth, Locking AWD Differential, Power windows, 6 way driver's seat, Power side mirrors, Cruise, A/C, 16" Alloy wheels, etc... The "lowest trim" US Model lacks several of those features, but if you go to the next trim model up it includes several features I don't have like rear view backup camera, keyless pushbutton start, etc... so there's no "direct correlation" available.... But in general to make a broad sweeping generalization - anywhere between 10% and 20% higher prices in Canada depending on the Mfg, the Model, the trim level... Pickup Trucks are the worst I've found - a F150 FX4 properly equipped, with normal accessory packages they ship with, is about $53,000 to finance. The same unit in the US is about $41,000 for financing... a 25% savings.
some manufacturers are also fairly close in price...it really depends on the brand and trim...another "crappy" part is aside from possible pricing disparity on the cars themselves is things like "Freight"...some brands have freight charges here of $1500, yet our US counterparts pay $595 (example).
The MSRP's don't tell the whole story. As stated by dirtyjeffer, Canadians often pay more then double in delivery charges even if the plant is a short drive away, and more importantly, US dealers are able to offer far greater discounts from MSRP because of better manufacturer's incentives south of the border.
also, the sheer size of the US market helps...Hyundai USA will get much better pricing on a Sonata vs Hyundai Canada simply due to the difference in the size of the orders...the same goes with GM Canada, Honda Canada, etc...hence my comment about duplicity and the need to treat Canada as a 51st State if you truly want equal prices...just be careful what you wish for...the grass isn't always greener. -- People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
I do not agree that we would become the 51st US state. That honour will go to Puerto Rico!
If Canada would enter into a customs union with the States it would undoubtedly raise our standard of living and most Canadians would benefit by it. It would not necessarily lead to a political union. Look at Europe. They have enjoyed a customs union for years and the Europeans I know have benefited tremendously by it and they would never ever want to go back to living within some isolated fiefdom. Political union within Europe is as distant as ever and I would argue even more distant then it seemed on the eve of the customs union.
Political union within Europe is as distant as ever and I would argue even more distant then it seemed on the eve of the customs union.
In terms of legislatures and constitutions and country names, that is true.
But the EU has a [massive] bureaucracy that increasingly controls more and more aspects of daily life.
In any event, perhaps NAFTA needs to be broadened and updated.
But a full customs union between Canada and the USA would be bad for Canada's economy in the long term, and undermining of its sovereignty.
If things had gone a little differently in the late 1700's, if the American Revolution had fizzled out (as was quite possible) then there might have been a single country north of Mexico.
But too much water has gone under the bridge for that.
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Also, do you really want closer ties to a country (the USA) that is being ruined by redneck lunatics, even if it saves you some money?
And those same lunatics (even one US Senator born in Canada although he forgot) would likely oppose a customs union from [their] side.
The EU is comprised of nearly 30 countries where none is dominant. Attempting to make some sort of comparison between the EU and customs Union between Canada and the US is simply ridiculous and not something I would want any part of.
But so many of the vehicles are more expensive in Canada even though they are built in Canada....!
This makes no sense.
sure it does...how many Malibu's does GM need to make for GM Canada vs GM USA?...when 90% of your manufactured goods head south of the border, your damn right they get a better price. -- People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
sure it does...how many Malibu's does GM need to make for GM Canada vs GM USA?...when 90% of your manufactured goods head south of the border, your damn right they get a better price.
I still don't get it, so apparently I am a bad capitalist!
If they lowered the prices in Canada to the US levels, they would sell more new cars in Canada, without harming US sales. So they could sell more new cars overall and increase total revenue.
At the dealer level, profit on a new car is minimal. The dealers make their money by providing service, both in-warranty and after warranty. So selling more cars helps the dealers too, and in this case the dealers and the manufacturer share a common interest.
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Canada is a big market. It's the same population as California, in other words, BIG. More than seven times the population of Ireland. More than Venezuela.
I truly think that a lot of US executives just don't get that.
They wouldn't neglect California but they have no concept of Canada. They are stuck in Nell and Dudley cartoons.
i would guess the number of customers who purchase a new car south of the border for use in Canada is low (statistically insignificant)...if the car companies here lowered the prices of their cars, they wouldn't sell more cars, they would simply make less money.
if the car companies didn't have to have their Canadian Entity, that would save them a bundle of money in duplicity...if they didn't have to cater to specific Canadian requirements, that too would save them money.
and no, Canada is not a "big market"...it's not even in the top 10. -- People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
and no, Canada is not a "big market"...it's not even in the top 10.
Yes, but in terms of the brand name awareness, shared culture, and advertising exposure, Canada and the US are really the same market.
IOW, Canadians know Chevy, to the same intensity as Americans.
It's not like going into France or China and trying to explain what Chevy is.
And Canadian vehicle requirements really are darn close to US. No big deal to put the airbag instructions in 3 languages. And with the electronics today, having the speedometer/odometer be metric vs. non-metric is not an issue. Nor is having a way to set controls for daytime running lights....
Again, it's not like having to put the steering wheel on the other side like for the UK or Japan....
i realize our requirements are similar, but it still doesn't matter with regard to duplicity...if you want the same prices as the US, close all the offices in Canada, remove the requirement for the Canadian Entity and you will have your lower prices...just don't complain when you dump 200,000 people out of work...hence my point about being careful what you ask for.
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