 JohnInSJPremium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
| reply to sivran
Re: Windows 8.1 Ad with Start Button said by sivran:said by JohnInSJ:said by sivran:Pointless.
Unless there's something useful in 8.1 I don't think I'll bother even if it is free.
There's quite a bit that's worthwhile in 8.1 The start icon is pretty much there just because of all the complaining. I don't see anything compelling so far. On the other hand, not really seeing any reason not to get it, aside from inertia. Unless they decide to start charging Windows 8 users for it before I get it. That'd be a deal breaker. What do you see, exactly?
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My place : »www.schettino.us |
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 GlennAllenSunny with highs in the 80sPremium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA | reply to sivran
Ultimately, you'll probably have to go out of your way to avoid it (why bother).
»winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-81-review |
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KoRnGtL15Premium
join:2007-01-04
Grants Pass, OR | reply to darcilicious
So misleading with that start button and commercial. |
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1 recommendation | reply to darcilicious
Windows 8.1 Start |
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 sivranOpera ex-patPremium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1 | reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:What do you see, exactly? A bunch of stuff that in the end, would not, or would barely affect, my daily usage.
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Oh, Opera, what have you done? |
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 FreddyPremium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:1 | reply to signmeuptoo
For those who haven't migrated to the new ways of Windows 8, I'm offering the following:
Many times people have posted on this forum that the Win8 All Apps screen contains all your programs, except it's easier to use than the Start menu. From the All Apps screen, you can launch any program, just like you could using the Win7 Start menu.
To make it easy to get to the All Apps screen from your desktop, you can create a desktop shortcut that takes you directly to the All Apps screen.
To make a shortcut, right-click on your desktop and select New > Shortcut. Copy and paste the following text into the Location box, and then click Next:
%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{2559a1f8-21d7-11d4-bdaf-00c04f60b9f0}
Name the shortcut All Apps, and then click Finish.
Now, a shortcut to the All Apps screen appears on your desktop. The All Apps screen includes a full-screen list of all the programs on your computer, or you can start typing the name of a file to initiate a search for a program.
Freddy |
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sivranOpera ex-patPremium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1 | This of course doesn't change that the Start Screen is inherently inferior to the Start Menu, which is one reason why third-party Start Menus are so popular.
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Oh, Opera, what have you done? |
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FreddyPremium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:1 | On the Start Screen, right click an empty spot, and then click on the All Apps icon at the bottom right. Just as easy as opening the old Start from the desktop.
Freddy |
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sivranOpera ex-patPremium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1 | I'm not sure what made you assume I didn't know that.
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Oh, Opera, what have you done? |
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Reviews:
 ·Cogeco Cable
1 recommendation | reply to Freddy
said by Freddy: Just as easy as opening the old Start from the desktop. ... for you.
Your suggestion would certainly be helpful if programs like Start8 or ClassicShell didn't exist, but it's certainly nowhere near the same thing as what's worked well since 1995 and still works well for many people. "Just as easy" is misleading and similar to Microsoft's attitude. People don't want simply "just as easy", they also want "just as intuitive" or "just as efficient" or "just as natural". |
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 DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its AdvantagesPremium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:6
2 edits | said by urbanriot: (to Freddy)
Your suggestion would certainly be helpful if programs like Start8 or ClassicShell didn't exist, but it's certainly nowhere near the same thing as what's worked well since 1995 and still works well for many people.
"Just as easy" is misleading and similar to Microsoft's attitude. People don't want simply "just as easy", they also want "just as intuitive" or "just as efficient" or "just as natural".
The very fact that these 3rd party programs even EXIST is a clear testament to the will of 'THE PEOPLE' - you know, Mister Ballmer (or whoever comes next) - we, your customers - the folks who are YOUR MEAL TICKET.
The PC makers should also be grumpy at M$, as this stubbornness on M$'s part - not to just let the portion of public who DO NOT WANT TABLETS YET to have THEIR way/wish about operating system software behaviour for now - well, to be perfectly frank and honest, it is costing YOUR companies SALES !
Full START MENU, PLEASE !!!
Or we'll switch to LINUX !
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We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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START Forum »Start Communications |
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1 recommendation | reply to Freddy
said by Freddy:To make a shortcut, right-click on your desktop and select New > Shortcut. Copy and paste the following text into the Location box, and then click Next:
%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{2559a1f8-21d7-11d4-bdaf-00c04f60b9f0}
Name the shortcut All Apps, and then click Finish. Are you implying that this process is in any way indicative of an improved UI in Windows 8 vs. Windows 7? While I'd agree that Win8, through arcane tricks like this and 3rd-party add-ins like Start8, can be crow-barred into something almost as efficient as Win7, these methods aren't accessible to average users who will continue to be lost and befuddled by a return of the Start button, which only serves to return them to the UI (Metro) they are trying to avoid. |
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JohnInSJPremium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
| reply to sivran
said by sivran:said by JohnInSJ:What do you see, exactly? A bunch of stuff that in the end, would not, or would barely affect, my daily usage. Well, considering your dislike of metro, boot to desktop seems important.
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My place : »www.schettino.us |
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| reply to GlennAllen
What difference can a start menu make? Oh wait. It comes really handy. |
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 JehuHodorPremium
join:2002-09-13
MA
kudos:2 | reply to darcilicious
Windows 8.1 is the best modern OS, complemented by it's lovely and useful Metro start menu. I hate using my windows 7 computer at work as I miss the 8 features.
I am a well-adjusted, open-minded, close to middle-aged adult who welcomes and adapts to smart changes.
I also prefer Bing to Google! it is well integrated with win 8. I must be crazy!! |
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 your moderator at work
 hidden :
hidden : Friendly delete
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 AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3
·Comcast
1 recommendation | reply to BrettZ
Re: Windows 8.1 Ad with Start Button said by BrettZ:said by Alcohol:a small step forward. hopefully windows 8.2 has a way to completely block metro.
Minimize the metro and you've the full fledged windows OS. Why does metro bother you? I have loved metro with the touch laptops. because it boots in metro and default apps are set to use metro apps. and all programs + search is in metro.
i want nothing to do with metro, so why force it on me? i will never use a metro app
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. |
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AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:said by BrettZ:said by Alcohol:a small step forward. hopefully windows 8.2 has a way to completely block metro.
Minimize the metro and you've the full fledged windows OS. Why does metro bother you? Yeah, I don't understand this need to "block" metro. I don't use it for days at a time despite the fact that nothing is "blocking" me from it... yeah and its using resources in the background. although not much.
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. |
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JehuHodorPremium
join:2002-09-13
MA
kudos:2 | reply to Anon
said by Octavean:m not ready to give up my desk (with 3x 27" monitors) At my work we have full-sized, motorized desks that raise and lower for standing and sitting. there are lots o options out there for a standing-friendly desk that can support a fleet of monitors. |
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 signmeuptooThank you YankeesPremium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
·Comcast
·Optimum Online
1 edit | Landing on a window with 50 or 200 non icon icons, trying to search through such a massive alphabet soup mess to find the one icon, the one app I need to use is a royal PITA. Even on my iPhone I can group/nest like apps to make them easier to find. The Start Menu already does that, it's alphabetized, numerized, groupized, and hierchical. It works great and isn't hard on the eyes. A wall of messy icons is just Windows 3.22 all over again but WITHOUT the great grouping scheme. Sorry, but trying to say we are immature because we're angry over it isn't fair.
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital. |
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 OctaveanPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1 | said by signmeuptoo:Landing on a window with 50 or 200 non icon icons, trying to search through such a massive alphabet soup mess to find the one icon, the one app I need to use is a royal PITA. Even on my iPhone I can group/nest like apps to make them easier to find. The Start Menu already does that, it's alphabetized, numerized, groupized, and hierchical. It works great and isn't hard on the eyes. A wall of messy icons is just Windows 3.22 all over again but WITHOUT the great grouping scheme. Sorry, but trying to say we are immature because we're angry over it isn't fair.
Who is this post directed too?
said by Jehu:said by Octavean:m not ready to give up my desk (with 3x 27" monitors) At my work we have full-sized, motorized desks that raise and lower for standing and sitting. there are lots o options out there for a standing-friendly desk that can support a fleet of monitors. Indeed,...
I've seen some very nice options when it comes to such desks that can be elevated automatically. The problem is if I want one I have to pay for it myself and these things typically are not cheap. So I'm OK with a laptop on a treadmill for now. |
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GlennAllenSunny with highs in the 80sPremium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
2 recommendations | reply to Anon
Remaining in any one position for long periods of time without moving is detrimental--and next to impossible unless you're unconscious; you don't even do it when you're asleep. As I understand it though, with a standing desk you're mostly leaning (which can be quite comfortable). Anyway, sometimes we need to sit, sometimes we need to stand, but more than anything else, we always need to move. (And having a Start Menu wouldn't hurt either.  ) |
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GlennAllenSunny with highs in the 80sPremium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to signmeuptoo
I've recently found that "looking" for something there is less than satisfying; "searching" is somewhat more fruitful. At this point, the Start screen is something of an "Ultimate Launchy" app: just start typing to get a short-list. I think my non-techie sister will love it. |
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sivranOpera ex-patPremium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1 | You'd love ClassicShell. You can get an XP/2000-like Start menu with a run/search box at the bottom a la Vista/7. It's perfect.
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Oh, Opera, what have you done? |
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GlennAllenSunny with highs in the 80sPremium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| I'm still on Win7 & plan to stay there. My sister is moving from XP to 8 since that's what's on her new el cheapo PC (which is replacing her 10+ year old PC which stopped working); as long as she can get to some browser, I don't think she'll much care about starting other stuff 99.9% of the time. (She likes the "pretty" tiles though.  ) |
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your moderator at work
hidden : Off topic
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| reply to sivran
Re: Windows 8.1 Ad with Start Button said by sivran:You'd love ClassicShell. You can get an XP/2000-like Start menu with a run/search box at the bottom a la Vista/7. It's perfect.
Agreed, as soon as I bought my laptop it was the first download. Since then the metro screen has been a nice addition rather than a painful in lieu of. |
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 plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | reply to signmeuptoo
Picture #1 | 
Picture #2 | 
Picture #3 | 
Picture #4 | | 
Picture #5 |
said by signmeuptoo:Landing on a window with 50 or 200 non icon icons, trying to search through such a massive alphabet soup mess to find the one icon, the one app I need to use is a royal PITA. Even on my iPhone I can group/nest like apps to make them easier to find. The Start Menu already does that, it's alphabetized, numerized, groupized, and hierchical. It works great and isn't hard on the eyes. A wall of messy icons is just Windows 3.22 all over again but WITHOUT the great grouping scheme. Sorry, but trying to say we are immature because we're angry over it isn't fair.
Are you talking about the "All Apps" part of the new start screen? If you are, mine is above as shown in Picture #1.
What's interesting is that each header (Applications, Games, Microsoft Office, etc) are *gasp* alphabetized from left to right on the screen. Also, as you can see, all of the icons listed under each of the headings is also in that same order.
How did I do this? The same way I did it in Windows 7. I modified the underlying directory structure of the start menu / start screen.
Browsing to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs yields what I am showing in Picture #2. Notice how (minus the administrative tools folder) each folder is the heading in the All Apps screen. Any folder that you place there (except folders in folders at that point) will become the headings on the All Apps screen.
Also notice, if you go into one of these folders, the icons match what is shown under the column headers. Picture #3 shows the contents of the directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Applications. Those icons match what is shown on my All Apps screen under the heading Applications.
Since these are all shortcuts and folders in a directory, they are sorted (by default I might add) alphabetically.
With this being a folder that you, as the end user can modify, you can then customize the "All Apps" folder to your hearts content. Rename the icons to whatever you want, place them in groups that meet your needs. The options are endless.
Remember how I said that this feature was there in Windows 7 as well? Also, the Windows 7 start menu has the same features as the Windows 8 Start Screen. Don't believe me? Well, lets look again at the Windows 7 Start Menu. If you look at Picture #4, we see a typical Windows 7 Start Menu. The icons listed are ones that the user can "Pin" to the start menu for ease of access, or ones that went there automatically if you left the default options set. Sounds familiar right? It should, as that is the first screen of the Windows 8 Start Screen. Like the part in the red box in Picture #4, you can "Pin" items to that that you use a lot, without having to click the words "All Programs" at the bottom of the menu.
To further show this, when you click on "All Programs" you get the 2nd part of the Windows 7 Start Menu, as shown in Picture #5. Looks a lot like my version of the "All Apps" screen in Windows 8 doesn't it? Sure, it may not be folders and sub-folders, but the concept is the same. Its a 2nd screen that lists more (or in most cases, all) of your icons that you may not use all the time.
The bottom line is that the underlying directory structure that makes up Picture #1 and Picture #5 is the same in both Windows 7 and Windows 8. Also, the functionally of "Start Menu" and "Start Screen" is really the same. The first view yields a set of frequently used apps (either set by you or the OS), and the 2nd view will show all the icons. While the steps are a bit different to get to the 2nd screen (Win 7 was a single left-click on All Programs, while Windows 8 is a right-click and then a left-click on All Apps), you really have the same functionally when you think about it.
So, if you were able to fully customize the Windows 7 Start Menu to fit your needs without installing any 3rd party application, then you should have no problems doing the same in Windows 8. I did it without any problems, and see it as just a much larger start menu, which is why its called a start screen, as it takes up your full screen.
Finally, I will close this with a word of caution. I know these to be true as I did them myself! If you do go around and want to modify that directory, here are 2 warnings.
1) Do not delete the shortcut called "Desktop". If you do, the desktop tile that is shown on the first screen will be deleted as well. If you want to be able to click on that to get to your desktop, without having to open something up (like Windows Explorer), make sure you keep that shortcut in place. You can place it in any folder, but it does have to exist.
2) Do not delete the "Administrative Tools" folder. Doing so will remove the icons that come up when you go into the Control Panel, then System and Security, and finally Administrative Tools. If you remove that folder, when you do those steps in Control Panel, you come up with a blank list.
--Brian
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--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail |
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sivranOpera ex-patPremium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1 | The Start Screen however, can't do this:
Neither can the Vista-style Start menu, but that's beside the point. I'd be using Classic Shell there too.
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Oh, Opera, what have you done? |
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