Tech / Special Interest → Automotive > Car Accident anxiety: My fault?

Car Accident anxiety: My fault?

I was in a car accident yesterday morning at 11:00am. I was heading west on a busy 2 lane street, a 50km/h zone, in a small Ford Focus. It was pouring rain, so the roads were incredibly slippery and basically flooding. I was also on a hill. I was traveling about 5km over the speed limit and approaching an intersection where a driver in a large SUV facing east was waiting to turn left. When I was about 3 car lengths away from the intersection, the light turned amber. Normally I would have time to stop, but I knew that with the current weather conditions, I would have a high chance of skidding into the intersection. I decided to go through the light, and I had plenty of time to do so. But as soon as the light turned, the driver waiting in the intersection turned left in front of me. I hit the horn and brakes, which caused the driver to stop, but as I predicted I skidded across the slippery street and slammed into him. Firemen showed up and helped us to handle the situation. My car was completely wrecked, the entire front caved in, and the SUV was barely damaged. My car got towed.

Was this my fault? I have the right of way since I was going straight and he should have yeilded to me, right? I am a new driver and this was my first accident. I claimed with my insurance company and now I am waiting to hear back. I feel very anxious and afraid; I am a poor college student and I don't have the assets to cover it if I get blamed. I have 3 witnesses, one who was definitely on my side. I am almost positive it wasn't my fault, but I'm worried that the amber light and my new driver status will be held against me. Will I win this claim?

I also want to mention that immediately after the crash, the other driver came to my vehicle, opened my passenger door, leaned into my car and aggressively confronted me. I am a teenage girl and he was a large middle-aged man, naturally I felt threatened and afraid. He angrily blamed me, and I kept repeating "Im sorry" out of shock and fear. A witness had to forcefully pull the man from my car. The police were not involved, but I'm worried the man will use my apologies against me? I wasn't accepting blame, merely saying anything I could to avoid violence and placate the angry driver.
Someone please tell me who is liable for this accident and tell me what I should do.

if you crossed the line on Amber then he entered on red so that means his fault.

quote:

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The police were not involved,

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Things don't add up? You made up your mind after the light changed to yellow to go through the intersection, but then you state:

55 indicated in a 50 zone is not excessive, that's kmh not mph
taking the story as described if I was doing 55 indicated and 3 car lengths (12 meters?) from a light that went yellow then I would not slam on the brakes either in the wet.
of course there are two sides to every story and the truth, but I can't see police getting upset about the speed (as described).

Yes it's your fault. You said that you saw the light turn, which means you hadn't entered the intersection yet before it turned red. While the other driver should have been driving defensively and made sure it was clear before he turned, that doesn't make it his fault for you running a red light.

However, there's a bigger problem here. You stated yourself that it was really slippery, very wet, and you didn't feel like you could stop, yet you still were driving at 5km/h above the speed limit. That's called "speed excessive for conditions". You can even be cited for that when you are below the speed limit if the conditions are poor (which it sounds like they were).

So, just let the insurance company take care of it, but take this as a lesson. Always drive with your vehicle "under control". If you feel like it's so slippery that you can't stop if you need to, then you need to slow down. What if instead of someone turning left in front of you, the something that you couldn't stop for was a child chasing a ball? Something to think about...

I must have missed the part about running a red.

At least in the kmh countries I am familiar with you are obliged to stop before the line on a yellow if it is safe to do so, otherwise you can enter the intersection.

It depends when the poster types "as soon as the light turned" (the other driver pulled out). Turned what, amber, or red? I guessed amber as they said "and I had plenty of time to do so".

I'm not sure how people are getting that the OP ran a red light. To do that, the light needs to have been red while the OP was going through the intersection. The OP clearly indicates that the light was yellow (at least we call it yellow in the states). The OP also states she would have plenty of time to go through the intersection, indicating that the light would have been yellow long enough for the OP to clear the intersection. Last time I check'ed there as no such thing as running a _yellow_ light.

As the OP is listing km and not miles, it appears this did not happen in the US. I'm not sure this changes anything but it could change how the degree of liability changes things.

We know the other driver is going to make some crap up. Unfortunately, he might claim the light was red when he started his turn. The other carrier might deny liability completely but I doubt it. There are many arguments against the other person. The other person owes the duty to yield the right away. So I start with the other person being 100% at fault and work down. The other person only needs to wait for the oncoming traffic to actually stop before turning and the accident is avoided. The other person really should have never entered the intersection unless they could clear it. Now, everyone does then they place themselves in a bad situation. Once oncoming traffic stops, they then have a duty to clear the intersection. But again, they only need to make sure the oncoming traffic is stopping. Clearly this was not the case and the other person just _assumed_ the OP was going to slow/stop on a yellow light. He could claim the light was red and the OP was running a red light but why not simply wait to see and then complete that left turn.

I'd say the other person is 100% at fault and may try to argue down to 90% or perhaps even 80% (arguing down as, in court, one could argue that the OP ran a red light and win a 0% verdict. Since that is not likely, compromise at something lower then 100%). But the other carrier could hear from their insured that the OP ran the red light and just deny the OP's claim. They would then just wait and see of the OP filed suit. Some adjusters/carriers are like that. Most are either going to pay the claim at 100% or try to reduce it to 90% or 80%.

What also really matters is the point of impact to the other vehicle. The closer to the front end, the better for the OP. If it's the back of the other vehicle then there is more of a chance the other carrier may just deny liability.

"(B) Steady yellow signal indication:

(1) Vehicular traffic, streetcars, and trackless trolleys facing a steady circular yellow signal indication are thereby warned that the related green movement or the related flashing arrow movement is being terminated or that a steady red signal indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic, streetcars, and trackless trolleys shall not enter the intersection. The provisions governing vehicular operation under the movement being terminated shall continue to apply while the steady circular yellow signal indication is displayed.

(2) Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow arrow signal indication is thereby warned that the related green arrow movement or the related flashing arrow movement is being terminated. The provisions governing vehicular operation under the movement being terminated shall continue to apply while the steady yellow arrow signal indication is displayed."

I added the bold. I think what this statute implies is that a yellow light is the time frame that you have to stop. A green meaning you don't need to stop and a red meaning you are already stopped (not entering the intersection). So a person should be breaking under a yellow light. It would be a _huge_ stretch to argue that a person is required to break for a yellow light but this should be what is happening. However, I don't see where a citation would stand up for a person clearing an intersection under a yellow light.

It takes very little damage to hit a grand and in some states like ohio, the damage is less than a grand wben the police has to be called. The other issue is that there was the possibility of injuries if the speeds r eported wew correct.

This post should be moot point as the police should have been called and I doubt they were not called if the firetruck responded - period.
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Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

You're driving too fast in the rain.

0/2.

You did not give your self appropriate time or an escape route if something bad happened. Something bad happened and you learned.

Sorry, you were at fault for driving at unsafe speeds for weather conditions.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.

OP, talk to your insurance people. Don't say or sign anything until you do.

Just they way you've described the situation puts you on the defense because it sounds like you knew what you were doing was not the safe choice--too fast, didn't slow for a yellow, etc...

This might be a shitty lesson, just make sure you learn from it and be glad it sounds like no one was seriously injured. I had a similar one about 6 months after I got my license and the lesson has remained learned for the past ~18 years, knock on wood no accidents and I have learned to drive defensively and in a manner where I have reasonable assumption of my ability to turn/stop (which you clearly knew you did not have)

I agree on dont say anything. He was making a left in front of you. If you were running the red light so was he. You had ROW not him. He never should have even entered the intercection if it wasnt clear which it clearly wasnt. If you hit him anywhere from the front door of his vehicle front you should be good. I just wouldnt be saying he stopped in the intersection. Also agree dont be saying you were driving to fast. No need to ad anymore than you have to. Remember you had the ROW not him.

First off, I'm not entirely sure that this isn't a BS post, especially since you say the Police were not involved. Huh? You had Fire units and a tow truck there and NO police?? Unlikely, but I'm (apparently) south of your border.

In the event that the situation is not fictitious, then you are absolutely NOT at fault (entirely) for the crash. A yellow light in virtually any state here that I am familiar with is NOT authoritative, it is, as noted, an indication that the green light will be changing to red. You can pass through a yellow light as long as you are clear when it turns red. The yellow lights are timed relative to the posted limit to allow for either

a) allowing close approaching traffic (you) the opportunity to pass through without slamming on the brakes

b) allowing those father back time to safely stop before the light turns red.

In your case, you proceeded as you should have. The approaching driver who is waiting to turn has the burden of safety to turn *only when safe and other traffic permits such movement*. Clearly, he did not make a safe turn with an oncoming vehicle that is legally traversing the intersection.

As far as those who have noted you were slightly over the posted limit and the weather was bad; those factors would come into play where fault is not absolute, and can be shared. They are things you should take into consideration, and if where you live there are such factors then they may play against you. However, the largest burden still falls on the driver who is turning. Always, no exceptions here in the states. Not safe? Can't do it, no matter WHAT color the light is.

As you describe it, no--it's not "your fault". (Of course, you shouldn't exceed the speed limit when approaching an intersection, especially one with a light, even if it is only by a little and especially not when the road is slick with rain.) A yellow light means to stop if you can do so safely, which--as you described it--was not possible. (I've actually been in this situation before with a yellow light in rainy weather--no accident, though, since there were no oncoming cars.) Traffic lights are for controlling the flow of traffic, not for making you stop when it's not physically possible or practical (without skidding into the intersection). The other guy is at fault for not yielding to oncoming traffic.

If the police were involved, they would have cited one driver or the other. I would hope a minor detail like that wouldn't have been left out of the story by the OP....

It seems like there's a lot we don't know. "But as soon as the light turned, the driver waiting in the intersection turned left in front of me" If he started his turn, did he have a green light?...green arrow? If he had green, then your light had turned red. If he did not have green, why would he wait only to turn before he did so?...or did he run the red? You said there were 3 witnesses, one siding with you. What are the other 2 saying? Witnesses here could be key. Do you have their names...statements? All I'm saying is, I don't think anyone can make a proper judgement with the information provided. I guess we can all make assumptions, but you know where that leads.
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Traditional thinkers say, "If it's not broken don't fix it." But breakthrough thinkers say, "Fix it before it breaks." - Gerald Nadler

What did the SUV driver say? Did he/she claim to have had a green light and proceeded as normal? More importantly, what did any witnesses to the accident say? If no witnesses, then it's your word against the SUV drivers and the insurance companies will battle it out claiming the opposite party is to blame.

To me, the key is whether the light was amber as you entered the intersection or if it was red. The other factor is that you were not only speeding (albeit, by a small amount) but you were operating the vehicle at a speed unsafe for the weather conditions.

Keep us apprised of what happens. I'm curious.

ignore what everyone else is saying. the left turn driver is ALWAYS at fault and that is not you. You had right of way therefore you are not at fault.

Hope the lawyer for the other sides insurance company doesn't read this.

A) you admit to speeding ( never ever do that )
B) you admit to driving to fast for conditions.. If you know you can't control the vehicle in a braking situation due to the rain, that's to fast for conditions.

When their insurance company calls, do not I'd not mention the above.

I wouldn't worry about 'the assets to cover it..'.. That's why you have insurance.

Also, 'new driver' status doesn't really play into this.. Since there was no police report ( how did you management that? ), there is no guilt per-se, thus no liability. The insurance companies will fight it out, and possibly take it to court, where very objective standards will be applied, not 'she's a you driver, so of course it's her fault'.

Through the process, do not incriminate yourself, and at the same time don't lie.

Your biggest concern is what happens to your insurance.. You may get dropped, or your rates might go through the roof..

All that said its lecture time.. Experienced drivers tend to understand they they need to adapt to conditions, some push that harder than others. You seem to get that since you knew the hard stop would skid.. You went out side that envelope. That's an unnessecary risk, and is how people end up being a statistic.

Best of luck,

And be safe next time.

-G
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