 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:11
 ·WIND Mobile
 ·TekSavvy Cable
1 recommendation | reply to onlinejunkie
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant) What the CRTC does regulate is the interaction between the incumbent and the TPIA. That's why they were able to change UBB into CBB. What the CRTC doesn't regulate are the rates, quality of service or business practices of the retail part of an ISP's business.
This is why a consumer complaint about the service is generally not accepted. But a consumer complaint describing a scenario where the incumbent gives itself preferential treatment compared to a TPIA will be. |
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Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
1 recommendation | reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:I'm not acting. It's a fact, TekSavvy has played a significant role in lowering wireline access rates.
But look, we also don't hold you ransom. You wanted to leave.. And you did from what I can understand by your posts. It's frustrating when it's out of our control. But I can understand that you have to do what you have to do.
It's the part where you say that no other considerations should enter into the calculation. It clearly matters that we have an overall impact. You can ignore those parts if you want but it doesn't make it less so.
Your choices are always yours..
Marc, I'm sure you're already aware, but in case your not... The shortsightedness epidemic is affecting the entire continent.
Several years ago when I first started reading these threads, when I was young and dumb (I'm a little less of both now) I looked around me and saw faster internet speeds and lower prices than anything available on your side of the border; I saw the struggle you were having getting any but a handful of people interested in doing anything about it, and I made the naive assumption that, because we had faster speeds and lower prices, the situation was better down here. For a brief while, in my ignorance, I let that small part of the picture paint my comparison of Canadians and Americans.
Then prices up there started falling and speeds started increasing, while we've seen price increases here but not a whole lot more speed to match. I already knew, before that, that my world view was wrong, but being young and otherwise-occupied, I didn't take the time to correct it. Then Voltage happened and I see people blaming Tek (and other indie ISPs) for handing over information they were legally required to by the courts. Never mind that they had fought it tooth and nail, they obviously didn't do enough and so they must make that right by ignoring that court order and taking whatever punishment that brings, to protect their customers; never mind that they'd likely be forced out of business, greatly reducing competition in the market and driving prices back up (after the "welcome back" promos ended in 6 months, of course). Nobody saw what was really going on, and I was still under the impression that my fellow countrymen were paying attention, so I again let that paint my world view.
I wasn't paying attention to what was going on in my own country. I was doing exactly what I saw the majority of Canada doing and watching everyone else, so I could reinforce, in my own mind, how great everything is here. And while I was doing that, completely missing the shit falling apart around me, my country has fallen even farther.
There are a select few in these threads who've had their eyes open the whole time. Marc, you're one of them; you have to be, or you end up out of business pretty quickly. The problem is, when your eyes are open and you're reacting to things you see coming, that are still several miles down the road, people who can't see past the car ahead of them tend to think you're a shitty driver. You see the accident 2 miles up, blocking the left lanes, and get over to the right, while they see slow traffic and either cut to the left (the "fast" lane) because they aren't looking far enough ahead, or cut to the right and get off at the next exit because they aren't thinking far enough ahead.
It's not just a Canada thing; it's not just an America thing; I'd like to believe it's limited to this continent, as that's all I've experienced, but what I've observed in the news tells me it's most likely global. People are too focused on their next step that they don't see the corners they're walking into.
Marc, keep your eyes on the road and your hands on the wheel. You see what's on the road ahead and you know it will pass, even if your customers don't want to look up from their screens long enough to see for themselves.
When the phones quiet down, let someone else drive for a couple weeks. You've earned it. |
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gotak
join:2011-05-17
L6G 0C5 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to tekSavvyUser
said by tekSavvyUser :said by gotak:My friend had his deal with 300 gigs extended 3 times over the past 3 years just by calling in. Most recently last month. So yeah I don't think the doom and groomers are going to gloat here anytime soon.
But hey if you guys believes in the religion of TekSavvy it's your choice.
Here is the problem with your logic, looks to me you look at this as "me" issue. But you miss the bigger picture and that is market economy and fair competition. Fine you decided to go to Rogers, good for you. But some of us want to stay with TS and we are entitled to the same service as you are getting from Rogers in addressing any outage or other shortcomings, I demand that service and the regulation has to protect me and honoring my rights as a consumer in this country regardless of how I buy that service be it directly from Rogers or through TPIAs. If we are short sighted and go with your logic, tomorrow airlines can do the same thing: "every one who buys the ticket directly from me gets preferential treatment" Insurance companies do the same thing... and the list goes on. I as a consumer have the right to choose and demand the regulators to protect me and CNOC now has filed the application in that regard. And I don't want to give up my rights just because incumbents want to ploy me to go back to them and after that brag about it that Rogers gave me the same deal as TS does. And I don't want to make a phone call after some interval to renew my sweet deal either because I get them without any call from TPIA anyhow. You mentioned in earlier notes that you can afford more expensive service and so on. It is not about you only, it is about marketplace and right of all of us. You talked about markplace a lot but clearly you don't understand what you are talking about. It is exactly because we are in an open market that I decided to switch back.
To call me short sighted is to miss the plank in your own eye. Consider the following:
Why does TekSavvy and other 3rd parties exists?
1) Regulation forcing the cable operator to share, a good thing
2) Inefficiency in the incumbent operator to create enough margins for 3rd party provider to be profitable
Do you think that the ultimate lowest cost would be possible with 2 levels of business and associated costs between you and your service like it is now with TPIA operators on top of Rogers? Or just Rogers itself? So as long as TPIA are the main competition to Rogers you will never have the lowest cost possible to you. That is a easy to reason out conclusion. Rogers will never charge the TPIA less then require for themselves to stay relevant (and I would argue the TPIA operators don't want Rogers etc to charge less than required for their own profit either because they depend on incumbent's existence for business*). That is the costs to the TPIA will remain at a level that means with their own overhead Rogers can make a profit while matching TPIA rates. Understand? With TPIA you are feeding both Rogers and the TPIA. And feeding 2 dogs is going to to cost more than feeding one.
What everyone really needs for the best lowest cost of service isn't TPIA operators. What they need is real competition between providers who has their own infrastructures (so there's no layering of overheads with the models we have today). Instead of saying the CRTC needs to force Rogers to provide better service to TPIA we should be asking why there wasn't real competition between Bell and Rogers to ensure point 2 above was never enough for 3rd party to spring into existence.
If there really is fair competition as you talked about TPIA operators would not exists. They only exists because of continued lack of real competition between the big incumbents. Which they can continue to operates as such because the price they charge is what the market will bear and they are trying to maximize profit.
Footnote:
*I live in a new development, both cable and DSL was available for activation the day I took delivery of the house April 2013. It is only possible because Rogers and Bell put in the infrastructure as the houses were being built. If fewer and fewer people choose to use Rogers and Bell they will have less and less incentives to build new infrastructure and less to maintain existing infrastructure. TPIA can get access but they cannot dictate the Rogers and Bell build new lines or maintain existing ones. So if you think everyone using TPIA provider is a good thing maybe you should rethink. If the situation was that the majority of people on my street was not going to buy Rogers or bell service, chances are good I and people like me would have had no access for months if not years. Unless a 3rd party operator has the means and the funds to put in their own last mile. The entire franchise like structure for telecom infrastructure is there to ensure that the infrastructure would be put in place because there is profit to be had by the people who do so. |
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| You are either clueless or pretending to be one. Let me give you an example so that you can understand my point about free market and fair competition:
Let's say you buy an airline ticket from travel agent and sit next to the guy in the plane who bought the ticket online directly from airline. When comes to serving the food in the plane, the airline serves him first and then if anything left attends you. What will be your reaction? You would say "oh I can afford it so next time I buy my ticket directly from the airline ...", OR you say something else?
Now Roger is doing the same thing that I depicted above! That is not fair competition, do you get now? |
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gotak
join:2011-05-17
L6G 0C5 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| No you are confusing morals with competition. But anyhow if you want to morally stick with no service that's your choice.
Think about it from the perspective of the people working at Rogers. Their bonus and promotion is based on what? Helping teksavvy's customers or their own? Do they get rewarded for ensuring teksavvy stays up? I think you know the answer.
Personally, I don't feel any anger or negative feelings towards those folks they are just working at a job.
There's more levels of morals and right and wrong. |
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| said by gotak:No you are confusing morals with competition. But anyhow if you want to morally stick with no service that's your choice.
Think about it from the perspective of the people working at Rogers. Their bonus and promotion is based on what? Helping teksavvy's customers or their own? Do they get rewarded for ensuring teksavvy stays up? I think you know the answer.
Personally, I don't feel any anger or negative feelings towards those folks they are just working at a job.
There's more levels of morals and right and wrong.
Again, it has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with market competition, simple. But you have either difficulty to grasp it, or morally needing to justify your action. I view it as: all customers who buy the internet service from Cable ARE ENTITLED to same quality of service regardless of sales agents, anything less than that is considering to anti-competitive practice. I guess no sense of repeating ourselves anymore. Good luck to you. |
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gotak
join:2011-05-17
L6G 0C5 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| The situation is you pay TekSavvy as I did. At the end of the day their own survival depends on them being able to deliver the service paid for. It doesn't matter if underneath it all Rogers is being fair or unfair to TekSavvy. That's not your problem or my problem but a problem for the folks at TekSavvy, that's my point which you don't get at all. They are a service provider not a righteous crusader. |
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| reply to tekSavvyUser
In the end it comes down to this....
Is internet that works 100% of the time and costs 40% more worth it to you compared to internet that works 95% of the time and costs 40% less.
Take your pick. I can't decide right now, but I'm swaying toward the more expensive right now.
I'm really disappointed that the internet has been down for more than 24 hours at this point. If I ran a home business, I'd be livid. |
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gotak
join:2011-05-17
L6G 0C5 | BINGO! Why it is so bloody hard to get. |
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 your moderator at work
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:11 Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
1 recommendation | reply to Dssgrntld
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant) Because there's more at stake here for some of us than just the 40% ... it's all about the future of the internet in Canada. Whether we want it to be dominated by a few carriers whose goal is to control what we see, watch, hear, read, or whether we want freedom to do what we please. Remember the incumbents continued goal is the portal system that has failed so many times ... but they still hanker for it because it is so monetizable. Profit, profit, profit, profit.
They don't care what they do as long as they see that word ... |
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| The CRTC is controlled by Rogers, Bell and Shaw.... I don't see that changing anytime soon...
Don't hate one or any of these companies, hate the system and the way it is set up.
I commend you on your idea that you can make the world a better place.... I don't even have the energy to think that I can yet alone try to  |
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| reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:Because there's more at stake here for some of us than just the 40% ... it's all about the future of the internet in Canada. Whether we want it to be dominated by a few carriers whose goal is to control what we see, watch, hear, read, or whether we want freedom to do what we please. Remember the incumbents continued goal is the portal system that has failed so many times ... but they still hanker for it.
Thank you! Some people just see it as "me" issue, but said it right. |
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| reply to gotak
...'the day I took delivery of the house April 2013'...
House? Postal Code points to cracker-box condo development in Markham, the type of condos bought up by investors for rental investment. So, who are you, really........ |
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| reply to Dssgrntld
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant Wouldn't be surprised if you got some paid trolls after you (not the OP obviously).
Hard to imagine people actually voluntarily posting on Roger's behalf.
I'm not even Canadian, and I'm familiar with this. That in itself shows that this is a rather large issue. |
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your moderator at work
hidden :
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| reply to TSI Andre
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant) said by TSI Andre:Hey Fetus,
We can get you that temp solution in the mean time. All you have to do is email promotions@teksavvy.com and request the WIND temp solution and include your account info.
Someone will reach out to you within 24 hours and will ship it out priority.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Andre
Just as a fun update to the promise of getting a WindMobile stick. It has now been over 24 hours and I have yet to receive any sort of update.
Wow.
See timestamped email: »i.imgur.com/rzTMrAK.png?1 |
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| reply to TechnoGeek
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant My Shaw 10 plan just increased by another $5 (the last $5 increase was 10 months ago) and I came here looking for an alternative. This discussion is very eye-opening. A war of attrition seems to be taking place.
But really, the entire concept seems absurd to me. In order to foster competition, you force the incumbants to rent a share of their facility at reduced profit to 'competitors' who can then undercut you on price. If the service was the same, who wouldn't want to switch?
I like the airline analogy, but with a difference. It would be like telling Air Canada that they had to allow West Jet to buy 25% of the seats on Air Canada planes at bulk rates. So, if you are flying West Jet, you are in a different seat on the same plane. It does seem rather silly.
The height of silliness here in BC, was allowing 'competitors' to get into the natural gas business. Same gas flowing through the same pipes, but purchased from a broker on a different rate plan. Most of the users got screwed, when gas prices fell.
I wish that there was real competition in the telecommunications businesses. What I see is, for the amount of money that families are paying for phone, cell, ISP, cable, satelite, as a % of their household budget, it is just shocking the amounts of money that are changing hands. If you look at what you pay for these services over a ten year period, you could buy a car or put a down payment on a house.
I can't afford this anymore. My wife just got down-sized. We are looking for ways of cutting expenses across the board. I need affordable services or I need to learn to do without. |
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| teksavvy on shaw is very good. you can get the full 25Mbps/2.5Mbps for $45 or so.
BC has less issues than ontario. |
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 Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
Kepler 62f
kudos:4
·TekSavvy DSL
 ·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to TechnoGeek
said by TechnoGeek:Wouldn't be surprised if you got some paid trolls after you (not the OP obviously).
Hard to imagine people actually voluntarily posting on Roger's behalf.
I'm not even Canadian, and I'm familiar with this. That in itself shows that this is a rather large issue.
So it's easier to assume people paying trolls? Give me a break. No fail these types of comments always popup as soon as a heated discussion like this appears. So paid trolls are only the negative posters? It doesn't go the other way around? How easy is it for Company A/B/C to hire fan's to post how great they are? How about fanboi's for any product? Are the fanboi's for apple products paid trolls too?
This idea constantly floats around the Teksavvy forums for years and it's absolutely irritating. I don't sit on either side of the fence, but i do get annoyed of the fans and the negative ones at times and then these weird accusations as if it's 1 sided. Even the fans go too far whereas i can't help but question why TSI doesn't step in to put a stop to it. Yes we get it, complain to the CRTC, stop spewing it. We aren't crusaders on this forum. This has to be unanimous among the nation/a nation to make a change, not a one at a time message every time a negative thread pops up.
People need to stop thinking Teksavvy is immune to faults. Negative threads WILL show up, so stop the accusations that people are paid trolls. They are after all, human beings behind those screens over at Teksavvy. Not gods. |
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| said by Tx:said by TechnoGeek:Wouldn't be surprised if you got some paid trolls after you (not the OP obviously).
Hard to imagine people actually voluntarily posting on Roger's behalf.
I'm not even Canadian, and I'm familiar with this. That in itself shows that this is a rather large issue.
So it's easier to assume people paying trolls? Give me a break. No fail these types of comments always popup as soon as a heated discussion like this appears. So paid trolls are only the negative posters? It doesn't go the other way around? How easy is it for Company A/B/C to hire fan's to post how great they are? How about fanboi's for any product? Are the fanboi's for apple products paid trolls too? This idea constantly floats around the Teksavvy forums for years and it's absolutely irritating. I don't sit on either side of the fence, but i do get annoyed of the fans and the negative ones at times and then these weird accusations as if it's 1 sided. Even the fans go too far whereas i can't help but question why TSI doesn't step in to put a stop to it. Yes we get it, complain to the CRTC, stop spewing it. We aren't crusaders on this forum. This has to be unanimous among the nation/a nation to make a change, not a one at a time message every time a negative thread pops up. People need to stop thinking Teksavvy is immune to faults. Negative threads WILL show up, so stop the accusations that people are paid trolls. They are after all, human beings behind those screens over at Teksavvy. Not gods. I agree with you. I love to see the discussion to be on the core issues and a should serve the users community as a whole FOR better services. Any shortcomings should be cited and pointed at. But unfortunately like anything else that everyone can contribute, there is a point that someone makes a mistake and throws accusation or misinterpret intentions.
At the end of the day, we all have to strive for better service that is affordable to "majority" (interpretation of majority up to you). I love to see the businesses making profit, after all if they don't, they won't invest. BUT, stifling competition through "prioritization", "lack of resources..." excuses while attending similar ticket with quick response SHOULD NOT BE acceptable. To be honest I look at TPIA as a tool to improve competition not as a end goal! |
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BrettDPremium
join:2009-12-26
Ottawa, ON | reply to lillypad_339
Re: Teksavvy of yesteryear (rant) said by lillypad_339:If I ran a home business, I'd be livid. In that case, you would also be stupid for expecting business-quality service on a residential plan, with no backup. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to gotak
said by gotak:My friend had his deal with 300 gigs extended 3 times over the past 3 years just by calling in. Most recently last month. So yeah I don't think the doom and groomers are going to gloat here anytime soon.
But hey if you guys believes in the religion of TekSavvy it's your choice.
I'd rather deal with a company that offers reasonable pricing without gimmicks or other games. Having to deal with companies retention department to get the pricing I should be receiving in the first place is just plain stupid. If you want to play stupid games like that go ahead but there are a lot of Canadians that do not and should not have to. Besides the only reason Rogers even have a 300GB plan or their gimmick unlimited option is because of companies like TekSavvy and the other IISPs. It's not a religion, it's being smart. |
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 AkFubarAdmittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by brad:said by gotak:My friend had his deal with 300 gigs extended 3 times over the past 3 years just by calling in. Most recently last month. So yeah I don't think the doom and groomers are going to gloat here anytime soon.
But hey if you guys believes in the religion of TekSavvy it's your choice.
I'd rather deal with a company that offers reasonable pricing without gimmicks or other games. Having to deal with companies retention department to get the pricing I should be receiving in the first place is just plain stupid. If you want to play stupid games like that go ahead but there are a lot of Canadians that do not and should not have to. Besides the only reason Rogers even have a 300GB plan or their gimmick unlimited option is because of companies like TekSavvy and the other IISPs. It's not a religion, it's being smart. +1!~ Why should you have to dicker with provider every year for a deal? - It's unnecessary. With TSI I know how much I'll be paying and it hasn't really gone up since I joined 4 years ago. In fact due to the CRTC ruling it's actually gone down and it's an even better value now.
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BHell... A Public Futility. When life throws you lemons, make lemonade. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to brad
said by brad:said by gotak:My friend had his deal with 300 gigs extended 3 times over the past 3 years just by calling in. Most recently last month. So yeah I don't think the doom and groomers are going to gloat here anytime soon.
But hey if you guys believes in the religion of TekSavvy it's your choice.
I'd rather deal with a company that offers reasonable pricing without gimmicks or other games. Having to deal with companies retention department to get the pricing I should be receiving in the first place is just plain stupid. If you want to play stupid games like that go ahead but there are a lot of Canadians that do not and should not have to. Besides the only reason Rogers even have a 300GB plan or their gimmick unlimited option is because of companies like TekSavvy and the other IISPs. It's not a religion, it's being smart. +1. If Rogers ever succeeds in putting the IISPs out of business, do any of the haters here actually believe Rogers will keep matching TSI's prices and caps?
If so, I have some prime real estate in the Everglades to sell you. |
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 TSI AndreGot TekSavvy?Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:16 | reply to fetus
Can you email me your account details? I asked someone to check but their don't know who they are looking for in the list
Andre@teksavvy.com |
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| reply to gotak
... Works 100% of the time...
Ah you see, here's the trouble with your argument. It's based on the false premise that Rogers works 100% of the time. This is patently false - I and others have been down for DAYS on Rogers - so, you pay more and get less. This seems foolish, no? |
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| reply to sbrook
The CRTC is obviously useless. We've seen them make bad call after bad call. We've even seen the government reverse their course for them recently. So screw the CRTC. Go where your voice can be heard: government.
Right now the government is not happy with big telecom. We had those, "Why is the government letting foreigners in?" ads, now we have the governments, "Hey, shut up you thieves, we want better choices and better service," ads. The time is ripe, right now, to see governmental regulation overhaul the industry for the better.
I've written to several politicians and i encourage everyone to do the same. Rogers and Bell won't do it on their own. The CRTC has proven they don't care about consumers. So I don't even bother with them. I actually feel bad that TPIAs have to talk to them.
I'm a citizen of Canada, I want to see telecom services regulated in a manner that reflects the current situation in technology and culture, and I want to see my government reflect my interests. I'm not saying it's the most important issue, but it should be dealt with. And if enough voters make their voices heard, the government will respond. Everyone complains that all politicians care about is votes... Well fine. Let's threaten to take votes away if they don't listen, and offer votes on a silver platter for the ones that do.
Our telecom is not the worst in the world, but it's far from the best. It's high time we stop sliding down that list and start moving up. |
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:11 Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
| Actually, if you look at some recent CRTC decisions under Jean Pierre Blais, you will start to see a more pro-consumer approach.
The CRTC isn't useless, but having the politicians put some pressure on the CRTC to do the right thing is not a bad thing.
The biggest problem though is that they are SLOW. Decisions are not reached in a hurry.
Remember that the CRTC is a quasi-judicial body and as a result they stand somewhat apart from the political process. So, it's not quite as simple a process is "get the politicians to change things". |
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jett
join:2003-06-28
Kitchener, ON
1 edit | reply to gotak
I wonder who heavily and in some cases 100% subsided the building of that infrastructure.... cough taxpayers...... do you think bell and rogers pay properly for all those lines you see on the poles or all those buried lines across your property that not only feed your service but your whole streets ? when you look at it this way you could understand a bit better why perhaps others deserve some access to that infrastructure or cant afford to build their own the same way. BTW bell and rogers build out new subdivisions and are often receiving subsidies from government since you know they need to do so to provide essential services.
interesting fact, rogers bought out a devision from the local utilities in kitchener that ran and installed fiber in kitchener to all the schools, libraries,government buildings etc.... so these massive trunks of fiber are run on the poles and all over public property and no one paid for leasing this space since it was a public company doing so. well rogers bought this company and to this date they do not pay anything for the land they are using. |
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