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NiYo

@24.114.83.x

Anyone experiencing outages in Ottawa?

I had my cable internet activated with Start yesterday evening and everything was going great until I awoke this morning to an outage? Is it just me or is anyone else experiencing this? I know the Teksavvy brothers are down too, could this be related? I suspect Rogers meddling has something to do.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Yes, it's Rogers doing node splits on the Fallowfield head end.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Must be doing them in the northern suburbs of the GTA as well. :\

Good job Rogers...


VirtuallyBDB

@24.114.82.x
reply to NiYo
Yup. I'm also down. In Barrhaven.

dreville

join:2013-10-08
Maple, ON
reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:

Must be doing them in the northern suburbs of the GTA as well. :\

Good job Rogers...

I'm in Vaughan (GTA northern suburb) and I've had no Internet since 6AM yesterday even after 4 calls Start and countless reboots and resets. I have a related thread »DHCP/T3/Time Sync Issues in Vaughan - Red Cable?


DavePC

join:2013-08-18
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Start Communicat..
reply to TypeS
Yup.

A node split just got started on my street, been offline since this afternoon.

Atleast I think this is a node split.

»i.imgur.com/eYrjXgY.jpg

(I think most of the work is done though, they covered it up with a greenish rectangle cover with a bolted screw attaching it.)

No signal received at all, Sync Warning: failure to acquire FEQ/QAM or something like that.


NiYo

@agr.ca
Still down as of 2013/10/08 7:00 am


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
If you haven't already, please call in a ticket. Thanks.


Mark17

@tpsgc.gc.ca
reply to DavePC
What is a node split and how does it cause an outage? I'm in Kanata and have been without internet access since 7:00am on the 8th. I've called Start and they are escalating a ticket to Rogers. They gentleman I was speaking with mentioned that it is an issue with the Rogers DHCP server that we access.
Thanks.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 recommendation

A "Node" is where one or more cables feeding the neighbourhood join together to transport onto fibre to go from the neighbourhood to the cable company's head end. Typically up to 300 homes could have their cable feed into a single node. With the higher speed cable services being offered recently, they have to reduce the number of homes feeding each node. So they do a "node split". So now instead of say 300 homes per fibre, it's reduced to 100 homes per fibre. (The numbers are examples, not actual numbers)

So, when Rogers does this, they have to reallocate the modems connected. For their own modems, it's a piece of cake since their own modems are permitted to operate anywhere on their network, but they've set up 3rd party modems to only work on the node they are allocated to. So they have to reauthorize the 3rd party modems. When they do that they then have to also reauthorize the IP address allocation on the DHCP servers and rebuild the routing tables to route 3rd Party IP traffic to and from the right node to York Mills. POI.

Why they have made it SO complicated is beyond me, but presumably the reason is to segregate Rogers customer traffic from 3rd party traffic as much as possible although it's any body's guess as to why.


Mark17

@pwgsc.gc.ca
Thank you for the explanation. I understand exactly what is happening now.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Why they have made it SO complicated is beyond me, but presumably the reason is to segregate Rogers customer traffic from 3rd party traffic as much as possible although it's any body's guess as to why.

Can't remember if it was brad or mlerner that mentioned this once (or someone other Rogers informed person) but they tunnel TPIA traffic I believe from the CMTS to York Mills.

So TPIA customers will see a gateway address but never see it on traceroutes.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Yup, they see the CMTS and the CMTS router and then normally YM. Occasionally they MAY see the headend router.

The goal in doing that is to ensure that Nobody sees .cable.rogers.com on any tracert to / from a TPIA customer

They did it to their own traffic too partly to stop their customers doing their own diagnostics when traffic gets routed all over Rogers footprint. It wasn't uncommon for traffic to go Fallowfield to York Mills to Wolfedale, to Brantford to Front to the world adding some crazy ping times en route!

VLANs are good but sure make diagnostics hard when working with the customer!


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
They're changing things up as well, I no longer see 10.*.*.* for the CMTS anymore but some 7.*.*.*, that's from after the recent London outage. Got put in a new IP range as well. Rogers is doing some major tinkering in their network.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Oh yeah, those 7.*.*.* IPs that look like our packets are going to the US DoD!!! Scare the crap out of some people! Of course the reality is that those 7.# IP addresses allocated to the US DoD never ever see the light of day past their firewalls, so as long as they don't see the light of day outside Rogers network, they are treated just like any 10.# number.

Of course the very idea that Rogers has run out of 10.# IP's is ludicrous with about 2 million customers and 16 million 10.# IP addresses!


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Indeed, not sure how Rogers depleted an entire Class A range when its only internal. But... it's Rogers.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to NiYo
About the only think I can think of is that maybe ICANN is trying to move people off some or oall of the 10.# address space so they can public allocate it to gain a little more breath


NiYo

@agr.ca
How often do they perform these node splits? I'd like to know what to expect down the road. It blows my mind that Rogers can get away with this. Is there nothing there to protect Start/TekSavvy or the consumer?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Not very often at all. To implement these higher speeds Rogers has had to do node splits so people don't suffer from node
congestion.

I suffered from one once where I am in about 9 years ... in fact they did the reverse ... they linked us in with another node (virtual nodes are possible where they essentially link fibres at the head end) and performance went to HELL. Lots of complaining and they split us back out!

What they are doing to 3rd party customers need not happen, even with the extra work they have to do for us it's still only a couple hours outage at most.

The only thing you can do is complain to the CRTC. There is a proceeding open currently. You can find it by doing a search on "CNOC" in the site search box.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Node splits often also take out Rogers customers, the difference is that Rogers fixes their own customers in 24 hours, where ours takes an extra day. In this case it's been 3 days because they had two issues, first the initial DHCP problem for the two affected subnets, but then they screwed up the routing to the new subnets.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Seems they can't keep their web site up either.


nic

@24.114.87.x
My service thru cable has been down since yesterday (Oct 8/2013). I'm in Kanata in the 24.53.242.x range. There seems to be a routing issue.

I contact start support and they are waiting for Rogers response...

Hopefully this doesn't take any longer.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to rocca
Add to this their wireless service went down nationwide.

Big thumps up to Red for this.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Their web site has been down most of the day too.


Breadwinka

join:2008-06-08
Kitchener, ON
yup it was brutal at work today because of it. best part we didnt get any calls in because of the service being down


nic

@start.ca
reply to NiYo
Internet thru cable is up and running again in Kanata.


NiYo

@agr.ca
Can't confirm for Barrhaven yet as I'm away. Can anyone in Barrhaven make my day and tell me that they've got service back?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Someone has just reported in one area on TSI that it went back down!!!!


NiYo

@start.ca
Back online in Barrhaven posting normal speeds.

GrungyRemnan

join:2013-05-30
Hi All. Just wondering of others are still having any problems. I'm in Barrhaven and I've had no internet for over 24 hours now. It went down sometime in the early hours of Wed. the 16th.

I have contacted support and they were helpful trying to resolve the issue but it looks like its out of Starts hands at this point. They said it would take 24-48hrs to resolve.

I'm just curious if its widespread or just me. Thanks!