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Newsmart

join:2013-03-27
china

Looking forward to some Brand of ELNA Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors

There i want to get some Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors of Audio SILMIC II, part NO. like RFS-10V102MJ6#5, i want buy them use them for myself, but really hard to find out, i need many different P/N, please supply some advices ~~~


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

that's a specialized capacitor, and hard to find in small quantities(less than 500) but here is a place for small quantities of them. »www.newsmartcom.com/capacitors/a···6-5.html



SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

1 recommendation

I'm not sure that's going to work too well for him since you sent him back to himself.. (or at least I think you did)


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

said by SmokChsr:

I'm not sure that's going to work too well for him since you sent him back to himself.. (or at least I think you did)

I think if he owned the company, he wouldn't be posting this, I think it's just a coincidence that he has the same name. the company seems to have a very large stock of these, and more can be ordered from ELNA.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Newsmart

I wanted to ask what's so special about those Elna caps, but I googled first:

quote:
Elna RFS (SILMIC II) Series Miniature High Grade Capacitors for Audio uses silk fibers for foil separation instead of paper. By using silk fibers, the RFS (SILMIC II) Series Capacitors offer high grade sound for audio design. Due to the silk fiber's pliability, the capacitor exhibits a superior acoustic sound. The RFS (SILMIC II) Series Miniature High Grade Capacitors can be used to relieve the music's harmonic vibration, increase the purity of the sound at high frequency, decrease muddy sound at middle frequency, and increase high energy bass sound at low frequency.
?!?

Mouser has them, BTW.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


alphapointe
Don't Touch Me
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO
kudos:2

2 recommendations

Wow... does monster sell 'lytics now? I haven't read that much marketing fluff in one paragraph in a while...
--
"When the hammer drops, the bullshit stops"



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

Yeah, I had to put my brain into sleep mode after reading and posting the above because I was afraid of getting a core dump of my brain after trying to process so much non-sense....
--
Wacky Races 2012!


TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:2
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

1 edit
reply to alphapointe

LOL apparently someone at Elna has been drinking the audiophool koolaid.

Either that or they've decided to help audiophools disposed of some of their excess monetary income. Though the caps don't seem to be too far out of line in terms of pricing?



Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3

3 recommendations

reply to Newsmart

Still, I doubt the (SILMIC II) is as good as the Fiber Attenuated Localized Series Encapsulation (FALSE) method, or the Capacitive Radial / Axial Perimeter (CRAP) method.

Then theres always the "Series Harmonized Intrinsic Tantalum" version

/me runs
--
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Newsmart

here's a guy that did a lot of real world testing on these and other caps. »tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/ele···ors.html



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

Personally, I like to correlate results of subjective tests with parameters that can be measured objectively. Any idea on what those parameters could be?
--
.sig



Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
kudos:1
reply to iknow_t

said by iknow_t:

here's a guy that did a lot of real world testing on these and other caps. »tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/ele···ors.html

Let me understand this... He's checking Perceived Audio performance of different Electrolytic Caps used in the Power Supply input, that ONLY see 120Hz Ripple current (AC Full Wave rectifier), behind a neutralized, 3-point DC Regulator, NOT anywhere in the Audio Signal Path itself...?

Just What has that guy been smoking?

Let's See what an Oscilloscope shows across the cap banks under test...

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.


SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL
reply to iknow_t

Totally confusing or irrelevant, If the caps are simply in the power supply, prior to the regulator even, and not in the audio path, I can't see the relevance to sound quality.


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

said by SmokChsr:

Totally confusing or irrelevant, If the caps are simply in the power supply, prior to the regulator even, and not in the audio path, I can't see the relevance to sound quality.

a particular damping quality, which is why ELNA made them. you are doubting a power supply can have an effect on the circuits after it? granted in this case, very few people could notice a difference.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

I would be willing to believe double blind, or at the very least blind test results, but there's no indication of either one here. On the other hand, the placebo effect is well documented.

But the important point is that they are on the other side of an , voltage regulator, which should significantly lessen any effect a filter cap may have on audio quality.
--
.sig


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Tursiops_G

said by Tursiops_G:

said by iknow_t:

here's a guy that did a lot of real world testing on these and other caps. »tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/ele···ors.html

Let me understand this... He's checking Perceived Audio performance of different Electrolytic Caps used in the Power Supply input, that ONLY see 120Hz Ripple current (AC Full Wave rectifier), behind a neutralized, 3-point DC Regulator, NOT anywhere in the Audio Signal Path itself...?

Just What has that guy been smoking?

Let's See what an Oscilloscope shows across the cap banks under test...

-Tursiops_G.

actually, the caps see the full audio spectrum drawn from the amp. even though they are in the power supply!. think about it.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

2 recommendations

said by iknow_t:

actually, the caps see the full audio spectrum drawn from the amp. even though they are in the power supply!. think about it.

No, it does not. See attached.
--
.sig

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

said by aurgathor:

said by iknow_t:

actually, the caps see the full audio spectrum drawn from the amp. even though they are in the power supply!. think about it.

No, it does not. See attached.

this would reduce the AMPLITUDE of the ripple from the audio signal appearing across the caps. if the caps didn't see the load attached, then you could put a parallel resonant circuit tuned for 15khz in series with input of this, and not see any effect on the audio quality at 15khz!. with an audio amp, the frequency drawn from the power supply varies between say 15hz and 15 kHz. so for the caps not to see that would take a whole new realm of design.


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

I would be willing to believe double blind, or at the very least blind test results, but there's no indication of either one here. On the other hand, the placebo effect is well documented.

If I read his explanation correctly, he is the listener and operator. Results are based on one person who knows what's being varied.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to iknow_t

The load on the caps is the voltage regulator, and while that's not a perfect isolator, it's a actually a fairly good one.

As per »www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/LM/LM317.pdf the typical ripple rejection @120 Hz is between 60 - 75 db, and while that doesn't say anything about other frequencies, I'd expect to see comparable numbers over 100 Hz.

Furthermore, take a look at his preamp at: »tech.juaneda.com/en/projects/preamp3.html
My analog is a little rusty, but looks to me that thing is operating in class A so there won't be a whole lot of audio going out to the caps on the Vcc line.

He does make some very interesting design choices like bypassing the voltage regulator with a 220 ohm resistor. And the input section (50k pot, 1M, 33.2k, 6.2k) is a rather significant voltage divider adding some extra noise.
--
.sig



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

3 recommendations

reply to Newsmart

Not to beat it to death but found this interesting article. »sound.westhost.com/articles/capa···.htm#7.0

With this spot on thought

"If wine or pharmaceuticals were tested the same way as audio, we would be in a very sorry state indeed. To be valid, all tests must be conducted blind, where the tester does not know which product they are using, or preferably double-blind, where neither tester nor controller knows which is which. That sighted tests are not only tolerated but encouraged is testament to the level of disconnection from reality that many 'magic component' believers obviously suffer."
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." - Neil deGrasse Tyson



SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

1 edit
reply to iknow_t

said by iknow_t:

the caps see the full audio spectrum drawn from the amp. even though they are in the power supply!. think about it.

Yes the caps will audio draw, but the audio will not see any difference in the power source as long as the caps are good enough to keep the voltage about above the Vmin of the regulator, the DC will still be DC.