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Maclarenl
join:2013-04-09

Maclarenl

Member

Bell's "Relevant Ads" for Teksavvy DSL users?

It seems that starting in mid-November Bell will be reselling usage and account information to third parties that can be opted out of (»mobilebrowser.bwanet.ca/ ··· l-en.jsp). Given that Bell is generally oblivious to the fact that there are resellers of their service I'm curious if Teksavvy users have to worry about our information being sold in this manner and if so, is there any way to opt out of it since we don't actually have phone numbers registered with Bell?

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON

Mike2009

Member

Re: Bell's "Relevant Ads" for Teksavvy DSL users?

Teksavvy is not a reseller. They're a wholesaler using Bell's last mile.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

said by Mike2009:

Teksavvy is not a reseller. They're a wholesaler using Bell's last mile.

Regardless, TSI is their customer, not Bhell.

Edit: also - how would one opt-out if you don't have a bhell phone number? It also only allows you to opt-out of the advertising not the sale of your info.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Maclarenl

Premium Member

to Maclarenl
said by Maclarenl:

It seems that starting in mid-November Bell will be reselling usage and account information to third parties that can be opted out of (»mobilebrowser.bwanet.ca/optout/v2/bell-en.jsp). Given that Bell is generally oblivious to the fact that there are resellers of their service I'm curious if Teksavvy users have to worry about our information being sold in this manner and if so, is there any way to opt out of it since we don't actually have phone numbers registered with Bell?

Epic fail.

From the link.....

" People typically prefer to see ads that are as relevant to them as possible. To make some of the ads you see more relevant, account and network usage information will be accessed from time to time. Read more

Please provide your Bell mobile phone number:"

Since TSI does not provide any sort of mobile/cell phone service, just how does your post apply to Teksavvy?? Just askin'.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

bbiab to Maclarenl

Member

to Maclarenl
I guess if people on these boards still don't know the difference between a reseller and an ISP, imagine what can be expected of all the customers who are still with the incumbents. It's a pretty grim picture isn't it.

humanfilth
join:2013-02-14
river styx

humanfilth to Maclarenl

Member

to Maclarenl
Its not Teksavvy related....

But for Bell users, I guess that this is loosely termed 'Ad Injection"? So find that Bell corporate IP that is injecting the Ads and block it in your computers firewall or in your routers firewall.
This information will be used to prepare business and marketing reports for Bell, or shared with others. This information will also be used to send relevant, targeted marketing offers and promotions from Bell or third parties
»support.bell.ca/billing- ··· y?step=4
Maclarenl
join:2013-04-09

Maclarenl to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Since TSI does not provide any sort of mobile/cell phone service, just how does your post apply to Teksavvy?? Just askin'.

From the link:

"When using the Internet on your mobile device, laptop, computer or TV, you currently see unfiltered and random ads. Starting on November 16, 2013 we'd like to use certain information about your account and network usage to make some of the advertisements and communications you receive more relevant to you. We will not share any personally identifiable information outside of Bell Canada, and its affiliates."

Since people here seem to be pedantic as all hell I'll break this down. Bell is going to be doing "intelligent" ad injection based on your browsing habits which are being sold to third party advertisers. 100% of your Teksavvy DSL traffic is transported over Bell owned lines at some point and (I believe until recently but TSI's site is loading super slow for me) required to be over Bell's approved modems.

While TSI is a wholesaler, reseller, whatever you want to call it, Bell is still the provider at the end of the day which is why I brought this up. Looking for an actual useful response (ideally something official).
said by JMJimmy:

Regardless, TSI is their customer, not Bhell.

You'll find that Bell still tracks every TSI customer by address, the same way Rogers does since they have to maintain the connection.

humanfilth
join:2013-02-14
river styx

humanfilth

Member

said by Maclarenl:

Bell is going to be doing ad injection based on your browsing habits

So is Bell still doing 'deep packet inspection' of Teksavvy customers?
Last I read a couple of years back, was some idiot in the government doesn't know what Privacy laws are and allowed Bell to violate another company's Internet traffic privacy.

But in order to do 'deep packet injection' against Teksavvy's customers, Bell would have to hijack(crime: man-in -middle-attack) the Teksavvy stream to insert ad's, as well as scraping users internet surfing to create the ads.
Bell's whole scheme of 'man in middle attack', could violate a websites own ads, via potential 'ad replacement'.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy to Maclarenl

Member

to Maclarenl
said by Maclarenl:

said by JMJimmy:

Regardless, TSI is their customer, not Bhell.

You'll find that Bell still tracks every TSI customer by address, the same way Rogers does since they have to maintain the connection.

Actually, I'm not sure they do. If you previously had an account with them then they'll have that info. When getting support from Bhell (arranged by Andre) a while back on the sync-no-surf issue they kept calling my parents due to a very old account I used to have with them.

Also, I'm not sure this definitively means ad-injection. It could mean that they are selling the info to the advertisers who do targeted ads via other companies or who are doing non-digital advertising.
gzfelix
join:2010-01-18

gzfelix to Maclarenl

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to Maclarenl
I might fall for something like this if I weren't for static IP addresses nor watching network TV:


BrianON
join:2011-09-30
Ottawa, ON

BrianON to Maclarenl

Member

to Maclarenl

What information they collect and provide to others is very Orwellian - it is a total invasion of privacy. I would certainly want assurance that none of it will be collected for TPIA customers if I used DSL.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

1 edit

bbiab

Member

said by BrianON:

What information they collect and provide to others is very Orwellian - it is a total invasion of privacy. I would certainly want assurance that none of it will be collected for TPIA customers if I used DSL.

I do not remember if Marc has ever commented on this, or if there has ever been any clarification with CRTC.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

1 edit

BACONATOR26 to BrianON

Premium Member

to BrianON
In terms of Bell's retail customers it is legally valid provided it is disclosed and an opt out process is in place for their own customers. I can see it blowing up in their face if they go too far with it though.

As far as wholesale, well it would be hard to know what they are doing in the first place that you could prove in court should it ever come to it. But they would have to do a lot of backend work on the network to be able to do it for wholesale customers without DPI and I don't see that happening.
BACONATOR26

BACONATOR26 to bbiab

Premium Member

to bbiab
said by bbiab:

said by BrianON:

What information they collect and provide to others is very Orwellian - it is a total invasion of privacy. I would certainly want assurance that none of it will be collected for TPIA customers if I used DSL.

I do not remember if Marc has ever commented on this, or if there has ever been any clarification with CRTC.

Don't really matter, if there are questions about privacy with wholesale accounts they can be brought up with the Competition Bureau and the Privacy Commissioner.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

bbiab

Member

Have we been told those DPI have been removed?

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26

Premium Member

said by bbiab:

Have we been told those DPI have been removed?

They probably haven't but Bell knows if they use it again even for data collection, they will be under hot water.

Malovech
join:2007-05-30
Hamilton, ON

Malovech to Maclarenl

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to Maclarenl
TSI Marc it would be really good if you could comment on this. This is some serious ugly coming from Bell.

hmm
@videotron.ca

hmm to bbiab

Anon

to bbiab
said by bbiab:

I do not remember if Marc has ever commented on this, or if there has ever been any clarification with CRTC.

Going back a few years when Rocky was CEO and the CRTC chair was Konrad VonMumblehurtz, Bell filed that all wholesale customers (both the wholesaler and the wholesalers end-users) are also their customers and the exact same ToS's, AUP, and policies apply to them since they are on part of their network.

Rogers followed Bell's lead if I recall right (not sure about the others) and entered their ToS's, AUP, and polices on public record for all to see.

This whole filing can be searched for in Canadian Broadband. I recall pasting it and me and JF complaining about it heh.

As far as I can recall, it wasn't challenged, or if it was, they lost. So yeah, Bell's polices and ToS's apply to you. But they go largely ignored.

My memory isn't that great, maybe something changed since then? But I don't recall a change. I think this goes back to uncorrelated charges filing, or UBB-part-2, or both. I recall they had a minor win there, but the policies still held.

Maybe Marc (or the CNOC regulatory guy, Rocca) can clarify it, and maybe post the CRTC link to this. But this goes back to when Rocky was kicking ass.
BrettD
Premium Member
join:2009-12-26
Ottawa, ON

BrettD to Malovech

Premium Member

to Malovech
said by Malovech:

TSI Marc it would be really good if you could comment on this. This is some serious ugly coming from Bell.

+1

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

we don't sell our customer data to anybody... I'm looking into what this is but it has nothing to do with us or our customers.

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx

Premium Member

said by TSI Marc:

we don't sell our customer data to anybody... I'm looking into what this is but it has nothing to do with us or our customers.

If you could, it'd be appreciated if you don't mind keeping us updated.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

bbiab

Member

If there was something as mentioned within a CRTC proceeding regarding whose customers we are, I guess it could have been TOS related but who knows what that means then as to as how far they might go. Is this something which should be clarified at some point. I mean they (Bell) said whatever they said, it's on record.

jtl999
join:2012-11-24
canada
(Software) pfSense
MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR

jtl999 to Maclarenl

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to Maclarenl

Re: Bell's "Relevant Ads" for Teksavvy DSL users?

DPI is worrisome. I should tell me friend in Ottawa who has Bell 25/10. Something do to with approved modems. Simple. If this breaks the chain use a modded Actiontech or similar. I don't know all the technical details so I cannot comment anymore then this.

hmm
@videotron.ca

hmm to TSI Marc

Anon

to TSI Marc

Re: Bell's "Relevant Ads" for Teksavvy DSL users?

Also see, »Bell Expands Its Consumer Monitoring and Profiling

It's going to hit the fan.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

bbiab

Member

Can this issue add impetus to functional separation?

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

Official answer:

The underlying AUPs of the incumbents apply to the connections used to provide TekSavvy' services. This is so the incumbents can control network abuse and stop unlawful conduct relating to the use of the connection.

The incumbents retail terms of service however, that apply to their own end users, do not apply to the customers of TekSavvy.

The incumbents do not have the right to breach the privacy of retail customers of TekSavvy.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

we don't sell our customer data to anybody... I'm looking into what this is but it better have has nothing to do with us or our customers.

Fixed it for you.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs to bbiab

Premium Member

to bbiab
said by bbiab:

Can this issue add impetus to functional separation?

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26 to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

The incumbents retail terms of service however, that apply to their own end users, do not apply to the customers of TekSavvy.

The incumbents do not have the right to breach the privacy of retail customers of TekSavvy.

That is what I thought since there are no wholesale agreements in existence in Canada where that would ever be the case. And if Bell does violate it, they are breaking privacy laws even if Bell put it in such a contract or AUP.

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx

Premium Member

said by BACONATOR26:

said by TSI Marc:

The incumbents retail terms of service however, that apply to their own end users, do not apply to the customers of TekSavvy.

The incumbents do not have the right to breach the privacy of retail customers of TekSavvy.

That is what I thought since there are no wholesale agreements in existence in Canada where that would ever be the case. And if Bell does violate it, they are breaking privacy laws even if Bell put it in such a contract or AUP.

Is there a way to determine if they are "spying" ? Can it be proven? Wouldn't put it passed them