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88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

6 recommendations

88615298 (banned)

Member

Totally predictable.

Sorry but unlimited data is not sustainable. You can't have all these people streaming hundreds of GB per month. The spectrum and bandwidth do not exist for that over wireless. Wireless data is not magic. It's not a genie that grants you 3 wishes and says the 3rd wish can be for 3 more wishes.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Not at the moment, true. But this is a temporary crunch problem, I believe. I did some reading about some of the approaches on the drawing-board to address this problem, and some of them appear to be quite promising. If you're curious about what I'm talking about, you are cordially invited to check out what I posted at »Lower Data Caps Meet Higher Speeds; Result: KABOOMIE!!! , and feel free to join in in that discussion, if you wish.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

The problem will never be addressed. The more and more people use hotspots and such for home use, the more this will become an issue.

But I've been saying that Sprint would do away with this long ago. Otherwise they wouldn't be marketing a plan with a similar name. But when you start affecting your MVNOs in this way, there is more behind then just running out of room. Especially since Sprint killed the unlimited on their data plans like this years ago. They need the $$$ and that's what it's coming down to. They want to be part of the big 2 and they value their company more by doing this so instead of degrading the value of their company/prices.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

1 recommendation

criggs

Member

TBBroadband wrote: "The problem will never be addressed."

I'm very confused as to the basis on which you conclude that. As I wrote in my posting referred to above: Specifically, over any period of time, human beings tend to develop more sophisticated means of communication through the development and improvement of technology. The Pony Express becomes the telephone becomes the radio becomes the television becomes the Internet, etc. etc.

Other things being equal therefore, the historical tendency of human society's technologies, and thus a very important default parameter of those technologies, is that they will continually be changed and improved in response to the needs of that society. Absent indicators to the contrary, a relatively safe assumption therefore is that any given technology utilized by human society will function more efficiently and effectively in the future than in the past, unless it is abandoned altogether.

Just to be clear, I make no claims that there is no spectrum crunch currently, or that Millenicom or Sprint or whoever will be raising or blowing their data caps tomorrow. My thesis is a conclusion that pertains exclusively to a probable FUTURE, on the basis of observation and theory. I observe that there is a wireless spectrum crunch today in the technology utilized to implement wireless Internet connections. I also observe that, in human society, the technology for a given technological product tends to be improved over time. I therefore theorize that human technology will, over time, respond to that spectrum crunch with technological improvements that will address and repair, or at least compensate for, that problem.

As I see it, in order to rationally question my theory, it is necessary to come up with an historical model of human technological improvement which indicates that the spectrum crunch problem is not one which the past indicates humanity has the talent or the wish to correct. I'm not saying that might not be the case. But what I am saying is that absent a specific set of historical precedents to which one can point, I do not see it possible to make a case that the industry will NOT eventually move toward higher data caps.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

My statement on the issue it will never be resolved/fixed is due to the bottom line of the carrier, and the more information pushed across that link. To fix the problem, they'll need to start putting in small cells deeper into cities the same as AT&T is currently doing to fix their coverage and speed issues.

Wireless is a great medium to covert to for data/wireless, but not fully unlimited for Netflix, Hulu+ and everything else moving across it. Especially those wishing to push terabytes across the network each month.

But the better question for Sprint is why do this all of a sudden if they knew there were network issues? This shows that it is a pure money grab by Softbank and more to come from this will most likely be in store. I still stand by that they will kill their unlimited data on their cell phone plans especially by naming a plan of "unlimited for life*" and still having their old plans out as well.

History also with Sprint shows that they'll say anything to get people to believe them. Back with the TMO-USA & T merger Sprint claimed they couldn't afford those two to merge to push harder on their prices. After the merger was denied Sprint's Prepaid Group went out and raised prices on Virgin Mobile. It really shows that they were hurting for money eh? They wanted to just keep T from pounding them further in the ground as they are now.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

1 recommendation

swintec to TBBroadband

Premium Member

to TBBroadband
Millenicom was given the boot from sprint quite awhile ago but they somehow managed to start selling it again through some other middleman under the disguise of "educational usage". If they were using some sort of loophole that they shouldn't have been using then it is no wonder this happened. I dont think the relationship was a direct one between Millenicom and Sprint....there was another party by the looks of it and they got caught.
swintec

swintec to TBBroadband

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to TBBroadband
said by TBBroadband:

To fix the problem, they'll need to start putting in small cells deeper into cities the same as AT&T is currently doing to fix their coverage and speed issues.

I still stand by that they will kill their unlimited data on their cell phone plans especially by naming a plan of "unlimited for life*" and still having their old plans out as well.

Sprint already is placing smaller cells in large cities, combined with the 2600 band roll out and they will be in a much better position than AT&T and Verizon.

The new unlimited for life plans are the only plans offered now for new customers. The old plans have been removed.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

Verizon is also using small cells. This will help but is not complete panacea. Like big ell towers you have to get people that won't bitch and moan about having one on their property.

As far a Sprint unlimited for life. Well if they didn't plan on ending unlimited data they wouldn't need a guarantee. A guarantee they won't be able to keep by the way.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
Exactly. The unlimited abusers and data hogs (excuse me, "power users") have pushed the envelope far enough that the wireless industry woke up and pushed back.

There is nothing wrong with hard caps or throttling, its just question of how much a given allocation costs. Even Millenicomm was enforcing a 50GB cap.

Technology and competition will no doubt, push the caps upward and prices down over time. But in the meantime, those who want to stream Netflix, download and fileshare will have to budget their use, much like the rest of us do in most aspects of our lives.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

As far a Sprint unlimited for life. Well if they didn't plan on ending unlimited data they wouldn't need a guarantee. A guarantee they won't be able to keep by the way.

I think people are reading into that whole guarantee thing to much. I look at it more as a marketing ploy with nice buzzwords to get people in the door.
dudeman456
join:2005-04-29
New York, NY

dudeman456 to swintec

Member

to swintec
Not to mention they are offering the new iPhone 5C for free(with a 2yrs contract). Its a ploy to get more customers, but not a cheap ploy.

Also more importantly the letter states that

"Sprint has discontinued service to our gateway provider"

*perhaps* that means that the data routing for Millenicon has cease, Sprint runs a very large IP backbone after all, used by many for peering.

fred_6733567
@spcsdns.net

fred_6733567 to 88615298

Anon

to 88615298
who's streaming hundreds of GB?

thats gotta be relatively few people. I don't mind paying $100-$125 for 50 GB/month plan but the price seems to be rising rather than falling, which is a sign of lack of competition in the mktplace.

fred_8756569
@spcsdns.net

fred_8756569 to swintec

Anon

to swintec
i think you said this on another thread too but why would Sprint be unaware of Millenicom reselling again for the last few years? doesn't sound likely to me.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband to swintec

Member

to swintec
The 2.6 won't be fully in use for years to come. Especially with Wimax still on that network and much of WiMax being on it and never actually used- which was stupid on both of their accounts.

As for the old plans, they are still there. They're hidden but they are there. But Sprint also like everyone charges you extra for that service- which makes MVNOs more appealing.
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to 88615298

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to 88615298
This is why AT&T is putting their equipment on power/street poles. Power is already there and plenty of it.
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to swintec

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to swintec
Very true! It's done so they can do the bait and switch.
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to dudeman456

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to dudeman456
Could be the case with the gateway provider, but also Sprint allows you not to have the interconnection to their gateways. It's a bit more for the MVNOs but it's smart. Like I said before its only $5k for an MVNO to access the data side of Sprint to do resell/wholesale.
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to fred_8756569

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to fred_8756569
Sprint could have closed that loophole with the middleman reseller. Thus forcing Millenicom out of the picture.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec to TBBroadband

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to TBBroadband
said by TBBroadband:

The 2.6 won't be fully in use for years to come.

As for the old plans, they are still there. They're hidden but they are there. But Sprint also like everyone charges you extra for that service- which makes MVNOs more appealing.

LTE on 2600 is live now in several large markets (phase 1) (i am looking at a map now of towers and dates they went live) and phase 2 starts within the next month - two months. Wont be anywhere close to years to come.

No retail channel (or the website) have the ability to add new customers to the old share everything plans. Current customers can re-up their contracts and such or add lines but that's it.
swintec

swintec to fred_8756569

Premium Member

to fred_8756569
said by fred_8756569 :

i think you said this on another thread too but why would Sprint be unaware of Millenicom reselling again for the last few years? doesn't sound likely to me.

it was simply posted in the millenicom thread. if they were buying under the table from some third party under the disguise of educational usage only they I can see this going under the radar for quite awhile. Corporations dont move very fast.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to 88615298

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to 88615298
and this is why wireless will never replace wired for anything.
34764170

34764170 (banned) to elray

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to elray
said by elray:

Exactly. The unlimited abusers and data hogs (excuse me, "power users") have pushed the envelope far enough that the wireless industry woke up and pushed back.

Wireless is a complete and utter joke. It will not replace anything and is barely useable for a smartphone.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband to swintec

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to swintec
and what maps? those maps that depend on users to upload the data? and several large markets? hell Spent can't even get LTE going now in major markets let alone any with 2.6.

Softbank will set this company up for a sale once its turned around and a profit like any smart company would do. take your investment and then some and run while you can.

It was hidden on the website a few nights ago, but after reading the fine print published on their site its still limited and they brought back roaming:

Sprint may require up to a $36 activation fee/line, credit approval, deposit, activation on an qualified plan. Up to $350/line early termination fee (ETF) for advanced devices & up to $200 ETF/line for other devices (no ETF for Agreements cancelled in compliance with Sprint's Return Policy). Unlimited Guarantee: Available while line of service is activated on Unlimited, My Way Plan or My All-in Plan. Applies to unlimited features only . Price and phone selection subject to change. Account must remain in good standing and non-payment may void guarantee. Non-transferrable. Unlimited, My Way or My All-in Plan: Includes unlimited talk and text while on the Sprint network. Amount of data depends on option selected. Excludes int'l. Discounts: No discounts apply to Sprint Unlimited Talk & Text, My All-in Plan or Mobile Hotspot (excludes unlimited, My Way Data. Premium content/downloads are add'l charge. Text to 3rd parties to participate in promotions or other may result in add'l charges. Int'l svcs are not included. Includes select e-mail. Usage Limitations: Other plans may receive prioritized bandwidth availability. Streaming video speeds may be limited to 1 Mbps. Sprint may terminate service if off-network roaming usage in a month exceeds: (1) 800 min. or a majority of min.; or (2) 100 MB or a majority of KB. Prohibited network use rules apply. See sprint.com/termsandconditions. Sprint Mobile Hotspot: Included with My-All-in Plan. Includes 1GB or 5GB/mo. on-network data allowance based on plan. Add'l data: 1.5 cents /MB. Monthly off-network data allowance is combination of phone and hotspot usage. When mobile hotspot is 'on,' all data usage (phone and hotspot) counts against the mobile hotspot data allowance. Turn off mobile hotspot when not connected to other devices. Sprint Buyback: Limit of 3 returned devices per active mobile number during one 12 month period. Phone must be deactivated & all personal data deleted before recycling. Device will not be returned. Credit varies depending on phone condition and valuation. Credit applied to store purchase or account within 3 invoices. Also available at sprintbuyback.com. J.D. Power: Sprint received the highest numerical score among full-service wireless providers in the proprietary J.D. Power and Associates 2011 (Vol. 2), 2012 (Vol. 1 and 2) and 2013 (Vol. 1) Full-Service Wireless Purchase Experience StudySM. 2013 Vol. 1 study based on responses from 7,777 consumers measuring 4 full-service wireless providers and measures opinions of consumers who purchased a wireless product or service within the last 6 months. Proprietary study results are based on experiences and perceptions of consumers surveyed July-December 2012. Your experiences may vary. Visit jdpower.com. Price Comparisons: As of August 2013. Sprint Unlimited, My Way compared to AT&T Mobile Share, Verizon Share Everything and T-Mobile Simple Choice Plan plus $18 per month device financing. Competitor plans include mobile hotspot. Taxes and surcharges excluded. Other options may be available including other smartphones for the top three carriers that require an up front full retail or discounted price. Comparison example based on same smartphone for all carriers. Satisfaction Claims: Based on independent, third party survey of customers nationwide (for nationwide claims) or in specified markets (for local claims) from 3Q-4Q 2012. Other Terms: Coverage not available everywhere. Nationwide Sprint Network reaches over 278 million people. Sprint 3G network (including roaming) reaches over 275 million people. Sprint 4G LTE network reaches over 100 markets, on select devices. See sprint.com/coverage for info. Unless otherwise noted, Sprint 4G LTE devices will not operate on the Sprint 4G (WiMAX) network; Sprint 4G (WiMAX) devices will not operate on the Sprint 4G LTE network. Offers and service plan features are not available in all markets/retail locations or for all phones/networks. Pricing, offer terms, fees and features may vary for existing customers. Other restrictions apply. See store or sprint.com for details. ®2013 Sprint. All rights reserved. Sprint and the logo are trademarks of Sprint. LTE is a trademark of ETSI. Other marks are the property of their respective owners.
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to swintec

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to swintec
Which is why I want to know why Sprint killed their deal MVNO. Sprint will accept any other MVNOs but its not limited. Millenicom had to have pissed Sprint off big time to get their contract killed in the first place.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec to TBBroadband

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to TBBroadband
said by TBBroadband:

and what maps? those maps that depend on users to upload the data? and several large markets? hell Spent can't even get LTE going now in major markets let alone any with 2.6.

No. »s4gru.com/index.php?/index Tower update information provided by sprint sources to the site owner. Verified by users with various equipment out in the field.

The 2600 updates are limited to premier sponsors though. Upgrades for 2600 are flying along.

EDIT- I have seen great LTE performance and their 800 voice upgrades are extending service an impressive distance.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband to 34764170

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to 34764170
Says who? It works just fine on smart phones and can work on hotspots, it's just not designed as of now for Netflix and other streaming use. It can be used for rural services and has been for sometime now.

It's just not a long term solution the way it is constructed now and with people wanting "all you can eat"
TBBroadband

TBBroadband to fred_6733567

Member

to fred_6733567
There is plenty of competition. And more room for MVNOs to keep buying in and opening up. $5k with Sprint.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to TBBroadband

Member

to TBBroadband
said by TBBroadband:

Says who? It works just fine on smart phones and can work on hotspots, it's just not designed as of now for Netflix and other streaming use. It can be used for rural services and has been for sometime now.

It's just not a long term solution the way it is constructed now and with people wanting "all you can eat"

Says the people using it for anything other than checking e-mail and using Facebook. Ya if you barely do much of anything with your phone. People keep pushing the idea of wireless replacing wired connections and that isn't even a consideration with these insane "caps". No it isn't an all you can eat, it's called a connection that works. If you want a car analogy it's the car that can actually get you around the city and take a trip somewhere. Not the Ferrari that barely gets out of the driveway or possibly around the block and that's it.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to fred_6733567

Member

to fred_6733567
I made no mention of "streaming hundreds of GB".

Millenicomm's soft cap of 50GB suggests that their average subscriber was using far less. Cellco has been telling us that their average users are consuming less than 2GB, though the locals here will protest.

The problem is that there are those who will stream as much as possible, and in many cases, simply to prove they can, and in doing so, offset space for hundreds of others. When VMUSA announced their $40 unlimited data plan, we had one poster here claiming it wasn't unlimited, as they had been capped at 400GB, until they put pressure on VM, and were uncapped anew.

Prices aren't going up. They're leveling out, and the previously hidden averaged limits are now being stated and applied.

fred_6786788
@spcsdns.net

fred_6786788

Anon

yeah, my response there was to bf69 - i cant follow this format with all these lines either.

btw, don't you think prices should be going down by now?
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