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6101

i LOLd
@videotron.ca

i LOLd

Anon

Bell Expands Its Consumer Monitoring and Profiling

The Great Canadian Personal Data Grab Continues: Bell Expands Its Consumer Monitoring and Profiling
»www.michaelgeist.ca/cont ··· 977/125/
quote:
snip...
Bell will also begin to use account data such as which products you use, device types, payment patterns, language preferences, gender, and age.

The scope of Bell's intended personal data usage is remarkable. Given that many of its customers will have bundled Internet, wireless, and television services, the company will be tracking everything: which websites they visit, what search terms they enter, what television shows they watch, what applications they use, and what phone calls they make. All of that data will be correlated with their location, age, gender, and more.

Bell says it intends to use the data in several ways. First, it will begin to use targeted advertising to its customers by using its detailed consumer profile. The default for the company is that all consumers will be profiled and targeted. If consumers don't want these targeted ads, Bell will force them to opt-out. Second, Bell says it will aggregate its data to sell to other businesses and marketing companies so that they can use the Bell network usage for their own purposes.

The aggressive Bell personal data grab places the spotlight on the privacy risks associated with massive, vertically integrated companies that can effortlessly track their customers' location, media habits, search activity, website interests, and application usage. For law enforcement, Bell is effectively offering one of the most detailed profiling services in Canada, which the company can disclose without a court order as part of an investigation under Canadian privacy law. For marketers, it is promising a glimpse at Canadian media and consumer habits that correlate across all platforms and activities.

This level of consumer monitoring, profiling, and targeting merits more than just notification on the Bell site and an opt-out option buried behind a link at the bottom of a webpage.
...snip....
It will be interesting to learn what data they intend to steal from the wholesale end-users. Or, since this is Bell we are talking about, what data they non-consciously inadvertently stole.

I give it till the end of this week before it hits the desk of the Canadian Privacy Commissioner.

Also, this "opt-out". If internet based (ie home computers), how does it work? A cookie that you have to keep for the rest of your life and if you delete it then you are auto-opted in again?

Anyone know?

Someone should contact Karl Bode with this one.

Since Telecom privacy is shared by both the CRTC and privcom (as PrivCom stated during the DPI hearings), makes me wonder if anyone can file with the CRTC to get a file going? Should be allowed since it's part of the telecom ACT.
got_milk2
join:2007-08-22
Georgetown, ON

got_milk2

Member

Not to appear as if I'm jumping on a pro-Bell train, but this really isn't all that different than how Google tracks millions of people on a daily basis.

i LOLd
@videotron.ca

i LOLd

Anon

And that is acceptable?

Mind you, i am not a google fan as many here are who who drool over google fiber. Many here would sell their privacy just to download warez faster.

humanfilth
join:2013-02-14
river styx

humanfilth to got_milk2

Member

to got_milk2
said by got_milk2:

Not to appear as if I'm jumping on a pro-Bell train, but this really isn't all that different than how Google tracks millions of people on a daily basis.

Except that this appears to be 'ad injection'(man in the middle attack) to peoples browsing experience.
Along with full scraping of any unencrypted data.

Coming soon: Posts on how to block the Bell IP's that are doing the ad injection
got_milk2
join:2007-08-22
Georgetown, ON

got_milk2

Member

said by humanfilth:

Along with full scraping of any unencrypted data.

I always act with the policy that if I didn't want it to become public, I wouldn't post it on the internet.

humanfilth
join:2013-02-14
river styx

1 edit

humanfilth

Member

said by got_milk2:

I always act with the policy that if I didn't want it to become public, I wouldn't post it on the internet.

Well then don't let your random friends use your connection to search(unencrypted) for all sorts of nasty things, as Bell will scrape that and up will come ads for very odd things.

Bel page for details on whats being scraped.
»support.bell.ca/billing- ··· y?step=4
What information are we talking about?

Bell will use the following categories of information:
Network usage information, such as:

Web pages visited from your mobile device or your Internet access at home.
This may include search terms that have been used.
Location
App and device feature usage
TV viewing
Calling patterns


So called 'Anonymized data' is a farce. It all has little tracking numbers to prevent duplication.

Adding::: that Google keeps its scrapings in-house and provides a conduit for advertisers to place ads. "want to contact 24-29 year-olds for outdoors? here is the price and your ad will be sent to them."

i LOLd
@videotron.ca

i LOLd to i LOLd

Anon

to i LOLd
This is no doubt going to be challenged. Both in Quebec and the rest of Canada.

As Videotron/Quebecor puts it, the "Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms specifically acknowledges the right for each individual to privacy and the Supreme Court has clearly stated that an individual’s right to privacy is not limited to their doorstep. Even people walking on the street do have the right to privacy. This right follows the individuals wherever they go", I have zero doubts this would include Bell snooping on you and your family and selling it for pennies.

If this happened with Videotron there would no doubt be some sort of class action or Quebec charter challenge.

It will hit this anyhow with Bell. I can see the Quebec Consumers Union going at this one.

On the Canadian front this is sure to hit the desk of PrivCom.

French Media on it (Google translate):

Renseignements personnels: Bell s'attire les critiques
»affaires.lapresse.ca/eco ··· ques.php
quote:
The Bell company has announced to its customers that as of November 16 , it would collect and share client information with third parties, including marketing purposes . Customers who wish may choose not to receive " targeted advertising " but it is unclear if they can prevent the collection and sharing of their habits.

" In the case of Bell, in our opinion, the consent does not match what is required by law. It raises the question, there is a lot of issues , "said La Presse Isabelle St -Pierre , head of communications at the Access to Information Commission Quebec .

The law allows companies to collect and share personal information about their customers , but first they must get their consent. But Bell , a customer who does not manifest subscribed automatically to the new policy stipulates that all information on the use of products and networks Bell - web pages visited, content viewed TV , call habits - will be collected to "create business relationships and marketing ." Bell indicates that these reports will be " for our own use " or " shared with others." The company says that the data will be used to deliver targeted advertising to customers or to "improve network performance ."

questions

Option agencies and consumers Consumers Union also questioned the legality of the new policy of Bell .

" We are very disappointed with the way to Bell . It is interesting that a judge considers that, because we think it raises legal doubts , "says Philippe Viel, of the Consumers Union . According to him, one of these doubts is especially due to the fact that Bell has modified the contract that bound to its customers.

Alexandre Plourde, counsel at Consumers Option specifies that the law allows Bell to use the information obtained with the consent of customers for targeted marketing , but the company must show that the collection is "necessary" to achieve its purposes. "Here, the necessity seems questionable ," said the lawyer.

Bell says that no information identifying the customer will be sent to companies other than those affiliated with Bell .

"The number of ads that customers will not increase , has specified Véronique Arsenault, spokesman for the company . In addition, they may refuse at any time by visiting the advertising bell.ca / relevantads site. We give our customers a notice before starting to offer targeted advertising from 16 November. "

" We agree that Bell has a lot of information about you and it is easy to cross-check information. It gives an accurate profile and incredible information. It can easily lead to a breach of confidentiality , "said Ms. St-Pierre, the Commission access to information of Quebec.

John Lawford, telecommunications analyst at the agency Seaboard Group also considers policy Bell "surprising" and "dark ."

"In my opinion, they skate very close to the line of legality ," said the analyst. He wonders about the collection and sharing what Bell calls " calling patterns " phone , which according to him, are considered confidential by law.

"We will see what they want to do exactly . The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications of Canada and / or the Privacy Commissioner will have to look into it , "said Mr. Lawford , noting that Bell's view to its customers is incomplete and raises many questions .

The Office of the protection of privacy , a federal agency , said it has not received complaints about the policy and Bell refused to comment on the case .

Rogers announced this month that it will launch a service that allows advertisers to know where its customers equipped with mobile phones , allowing for example to send messages to them when they are close to their business. Clients seeking this service will apply .

"Videotron does not sell or share any personal information about its customers to any outside organization , including its affiliates ," has also informed the competitor of Bell by email.

Mike Z5
join:2012-12-22

Mike Z5

Member

I'm really hoping this becomes an opportunity to clarify the legal status of some of this information, as well as the standards for disclosing it to "lawful authority"

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook to i LOLd

Mod

to i LOLd
Looks like Bell is trying to get its portal a different way. For years Bell really wanted to create an AOL "portal" style internet access, not the open and free that the world wanted. Every attempt to make money out of peoples' surfing failed thus far, so Bell has decided to follow the lead of many other companies and doing it by your statistics.

Talk about a privacy violation!

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

Lodged a complaint to the federal privacy commissioner.

pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON

pnjunction to humanfilth

Premium Member

to humanfilth
said by humanfilth:

Except that this appears to be 'ad injection'(man in the middle attack) to peoples browsing experience.
Along with full scraping of any unencrypted data.

They carefully avoid any language like injection or replacement, but I don't see how else they are going to be delivering these 'relevant' ads to consumers who presumably are not using Bell websites all the time.
pnjunction

pnjunction to sbrook

Premium Member

to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Looks like Bell is trying to get its portal a different way. For years Bell really wanted to create an AOL "portal" style internet access, not the open and free that the world wanted. Every attempt to make money out of peoples' surfing failed thus far, so Bell has decided to follow the lead of many other companies and doing it by your statistics.

If it's true that they are delivering ads via injection (I don't see how else they'd do it) it is worse than that. Instead of getting you to use their portal (content) in order to deliver ads to you, they are going to inject them right into your content from other providers (who have actually 'earned' your page views and ad revenue).

If internet ads are here to stay as a legit business this crap will have to get sorted out eventually because in my opinion ad injection is very wrong. I pay an ISP for internet access not content. The content I do use is often paid for with ads and that is their only source of money, absolutely wrong of ISPs to siphon that revenue to themselves by virtue of being a gatekeeper. Garbage like this is why we need net neutrality and why big ISPs fight it so hard.

i LOLd
@videotron.ca

i LOLd

Anon

It is very possible that Bell will also take wholesale end-users info as well, and maybe just not target ads to them. They can still sell the info as is.

From what I recall the DPI boxes were placed such that it was possible to snoop wholesale end-user packets anyhow. After-all, that is how the throttling was done.

Now this is just another revenue generating use of their DPI boxes. Writing was on the wall.

This needs to be audited.

Also, this indiscriminately targets kids on the net or cell who have no clue about these things.

Which Bell moto should we now adopt?

A) Bell, Each kid is a dollar.

or, B) Bell, Selling kids information since 2013.

Which do you prefer?

pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium Member
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON

pnjunction

Premium Member

Hmm the fact that they are using DPI boxes, which we all know 3rd-party ISP data flos through, makes us wonder whether Bell can be running this scam on customers of ISPs like Teksavvy as well... Surely if they have the language in the regulations/contracts to get away with it they'll do it.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to i LOLd

Premium Member

to i LOLd
said by i LOLd :

It is very possible that Bell will also take wholesale end-users info as well, and maybe just not target ads to them. They can still sell the info as is.

From what I recall the DPI boxes were placed such that it was possible to snoop wholesale end-user packets anyhow. After-all, that is how the throttling was done.

Now this is just another revenue generating use of their DPI boxes. Writing was on the wall....

 
Same as Bell did for THROTTLING !

EDIT : Oh, I see that you SAID that already.

Still, it is worth repeating.

Indie ISP customers : be on the lookout for this coming to a connection near YOU !

i LOLd
@videotron.ca

i LOLd to pnjunction

Anon

to pnjunction
Bell is stating they will collect everyones info no matter what. The only thing you can opt out of are the targeted ads. You can't opt out have having everything you do online or on the phone sold to others.

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/m ··· .2158593
quote:
Geist says customers should be asked to opt in, rather than opt out.

“That’s not what they’re doing,” he says. “They’re forcing people to opt out, and making the default that everybody gets monitored and tracked.”

Viel said that while Bell may be acting in accordance with the law, the program is not ethically sound. He says mobile customers who aren’t in agreement with being tracked don’t have many options, considering leaving a mobile contract early means substantial early-termination fees.

“This is an open invitation for law enforcement to know that they’ve got one of the most detailed customer profiles possible in the country,” he says.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

I honestly don't think this will fly in Quebec.

cpsycho
join:2008-06-03
Treadeu Land

cpsycho to i LOLd

Member

to i LOLd
just start using startpage.com

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to i LOLd

Premium Member

to i LOLd
And I get to pay them buckets of money for it too?
Talk about enhancing the customer experience!
highwire
join:2013-08-27
Nepean, ON

highwire to i LOLd

Member

to i LOLd
Bell and Rogers keep leapfrogging each other in Douchebaggery. Just when I think that Rogers has surpassed Bell, Bell announces this. Wow. I'm glad I dropped all Bell services a couple of years ago. And until Bell provides a way to opt-out of data collection and profiling (not just the delivery of targeted ads), they'll never see me as a customer again (and I'm sure they don't care, because they have plenty of other customers are will remain ignorant of these types of shenanigans).

tachoe
@start.ca

tachoe to i LOLd

Anon

to i LOLd
Bell and Rogers already collect this information. For some reason Bell decided to admit to and pump up the exciting news they will use it to target ads at people. Best case, they will get slapped down and keep using it behind the scenes and sell it off to other companies if they aren't already doing that. Plus law enforcement would hate to lose a near perfect profiling and tracking system at their beck and call.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to i LOLd

MVM

to i LOLd
This is what injunctions are for.
donkey77
join:2008-04-08
Montreal, QC

donkey77 to i LOLd

Member

to i LOLd
"Canada's privacy commissioner will be investigating after Bell informed customers by letter that it plans to begin collecting detailed information about their consumption habits in order to offer “relevant ads.”"

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/m ··· ?cmp=rss

PedanticCdn
@bell.ca

PedanticCdn to i LOLd

Anon

to i LOLd
This really seems to open a big can of worms. The worst part is that, beyond the rather terse "notification" on their Web site, we have few details. Some interesting questions:

How will it work?

Where will these ads be displayed?

How will they know how many people use a given connection, or to which machine specific ads should be sent? If one person on a shared home network regularly searches for explicit content, will their system make sure that the 10-year-old who also uses the same connection won't see undesirable ads?

How will they avoid stepping on existing ad networks' (such as Google's) toes, if most sites already have advertising arrangements through them?

How does this affect customers who roam on their mobile network or who are in a Telus region of their shared network?

Being the owner of the network, there are many tricks they could use, with or without explicit ad injection, to ensure that their ads are delivered to customers, and some of them could be rather difficult to detect. That's what makes this such a sleazy tactic. I don't like it one bit.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to donkey77

Premium Member

to donkey77
said by donkey77:

"Canada's privacy commissioner will be investigating after Bell informed customers by letter that it plans to begin collecting detailed information about their consumption habits in order to offer “relevant ads.”"

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/m ··· ?cmp=rss

The CRTC should be investigating Bell to see if their broadcast licenses, wireless spectrum, and landline business should be revoked as a result of this.

PedanticCdn
@bell.ca

PedanticCdn to PedanticCdn

Anon

to PedanticCdn
Also, I fully expect that they will be deducting the number of bytes sent in ads from our monthly usages. Obviously, such double/triple-dipping would be unacceptable. Funny, they forgot to mention this.

i LOLd
@gurutek.biz

i LOLd

Anon

Said by PedanticCdn:
quote:
If one person on a shared home network regularly searches for explicit content, will their system make sure that the 10-year-old who also uses the same connection won't see undesirable ads?
and
quote:
Also, I fully expect that they will be deducting the number of bytes sent in ads from our monthly usages. Obviously, such double/triple-dipping would be unacceptable. Funny, they forgot to mention this.
heh Kids you say? Kids are their main target! Kids are little "revenue generators".

a) They consume B/W on both mobile and home-based net (which is metered and marked-up very high)
b) Kids will see ads targeted to them and click, generating more revenue.
c) Kids will play targeted games on both mobile and home-based net. The lure here is to get money out of the kids via their allowance or from getting them to nag their parents for money to "buy items" on an online game.
d) Kids will be targeted for new devices

You think the above is a joke and going overboard? Let me paste to you the studies Bell commissioned with CRTC funded monies (back then it was called the CRTC fund, it changed name over the years). Bell hired child psychologist and child development specialists and had a website up (The Bell bliki website) explaining how they will exploit kids for money. Here is a copy and paste from an article a friend of mine wrote up on it quoting Bell's child psychologists who wrote the papers on how to get money out of kids via targeted advertizing (which does not have controls on them when on the net as they do in broadcasting which is highly controlled):

The Bell fund Wiki: Lets grab the kids money

Advertising to children so they can bug the hell out of their parents for useless Webzhit is a multi, multi-billion-dollar bidnes.

And speaking of corporate efforts to corrupt the minds of our children, under “Everything you ever wanted to know about how to make money with multi-platform digital media,” Bell Canada is promoting, “How Casual and Interactive Games for Kids Can Make Money”.

Bell Canada, you say?

Yup. It’s all on the company’s Bell Fund Bliki.

Bliki. Bell Wiki.

Cute, huh?

See, »www.ipf.ca/bellfundbliki/
Look at the project titled:
"generating-revenue-how-casual-and-interactive-games-for-kids-can-make-money"

“Game Projects financed by the Bell Fund are very likely to benefit from substantial traffic from the broadcaster,” it says. “With substantial traffic, it is relatively easy to interest a game portal to add the game to its site network or use the broadcaster’s sales force. This means the game can generate revenue relatively quickly.”

It’s all so, well, bland — so harmless-looking as it, “describes the most common revenue models for marketing children’s online games. It identifies the advantages and disadvantages of each model, the kind of games that works best and the type of partners required.”

And it includes this lovely piece of corporate crap under Disadvantages to Subscriptions »»»

Children don’t have credit cards, so either we have to convince the parents or we have to encourage the children to nag them.

We have to “encourage the children to nag them”?

That’s what it says.

And under Advantages to Micro-Transactions »»»

This model provides a better balance between variable costs and revenues, because the most active players who use the most resources (bandwidth..)

This model works well for children who have an allowance

Thanks, Bell Canada. It’s just what parents need.


That was back in 2009, a little after when they installed their DPI boxes.

So, kids? Kids are money generators. They are the target.

Usage you say? Usage is also the target from the kids. Mobile usage is sky high, home-based net is high. The more usage they can get a kid to use, the more money they make.

Then there is all the info they sell from your kids. That 3-am porn site and so forth. Bell knows more about your kids and what they do than you do.

shrugs
@linode.com

shrugs

Anon

said by i LOLd :

See, »www.ipf.ca/bellfundbliki/

Over the years as the name changed, the above can now be found at, »bellfund.ca/bliki/

Seems to still be there, years later, right down to the how people can hire Bell to target ads on mobile, »bellfund.ca/bliki/contents/.

The site is now a little dated, but it shows you what was going on when they installed the DPI machines. It's likely still in their playbook.
Mike Harris
join:2013-09-06
Toronto, ON

Mike Harris to i LOLd

Member

to i LOLd
From using TOR, Track-Me-Not, all HTTPS options, No-AD, and proxies I make sure that I keep my browsing private. Nothing to hide; I just do not trust corporations like Bell under any circumstances.

I would say dump your satellite or FIBE and go OTA. Many streaming services use encryption and proxies. Phones? Maybe some VoIP offering. Harder to trace.

It's a shame we have to do this.
camelot
join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON

camelot to got_milk2

Member

to got_milk2
said by got_milk2:

Not to appear as if I'm jumping on a pro-Bell train, but this really isn't all that different than how Google tracks millions of people on a daily basis.

The difference is, you don't pay Google for Gmail. If you don't want Google tracking you, don't sign up for their services. If I'm using a (free) Google service, I have no problem with them delivering ads as that is their primary revenue source.

You (joe customer) PAY Bell for their telecom services, and they're thinking it's a great revenue generator to also collect as much data as they can on you and then target ads towards you. It's Ad injection techniques.

The data Bell will be collecting will go FAR beyond what Google collects.

Don't kid yourself, Rogers is doing it too. I suspect they're just waiting to see how this plays out in the public before making any decisions... "testing the waters" so to speak.