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LiVE4594
Something Like a Pimp
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ironton, OH

[HVAC] Replacing Natural Gas Piping

We live in an old home and were going to have our natural gas turned back on to use the fireplace. When they came to turn it on they said that we had to replace a flexible fitting the previous home owners had used in the line in the basement. I started researching this and got to thinking maybe we should just replace the entire system with CSST or something similar. Is there an advantage to using black steel piping over csst? Is there something better than csst to use? I've been using pex for the water is there something similar thats safe for gas?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
In most areas Black Iron Pipe is the only approved pipe for Natural Gas and has to be installed by a licensed plumber. Check with your local AHJ.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to LiVE4594
CSST is tract house crap. "Stray currents" will rust it out in a decade or 2. In a house fire it will melt in a couple minutes in direct flame and then boost the fire 100x when it melts through.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to LiVE4594
Black Iron is supposed to last 50 years or more from what I see.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by mityfowl:

Black Iron is supposed to last 50 years or more from what I see.

My house is 49 years old and the black iron pipes look as good as new (aside from layers of old paint in the odd spots.)


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
reply to patcat88

"Stray currents" will rust it out in a decade or 2

I've read a lot about CSST and issues with lightning / arcing poking holes in it, but never rust. Source?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
»www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum/···ID=12310 pics in that thread, 3 of them. All buildings get small amounts of condensation on the interior. So that CSST will have condensation/evap cycles on its surface through its whole life. The condensation brings contaminenets which can cause the stainless teel to rust. Every put bleach on stainless steel? It will rust.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
There are many grades of Stainless Steel and only a few of the grades will rust or corrode.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to LiVE4594
I can't speak to natural gas installations, but the preferred piping for propane here is TracPipe. All the houses under construction in my area have been done in TracPipe, and I actually have a lightning-resistant outdoor run of TracPipe called Counterstrike.

I'd look into TracPipe for your application: »www.tracpipe.com/

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to LiVE4594
If you already have black iron pipe I'd keep it. Just replace the flex line with something that's up to current codes and you'll be good to go.

Nothing wrong with black iron gas pipe. You gain nothing from ripping it out and replacing with CSST.

CSST is popular in new construction due to its low cost and ease of installation (it's all about the $$$).


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to LiVE4594
As I look into this it looks like black iron may have a life spand of over 200 years

but like most things it dependes.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to LiVE4594
from the gas meter to the home is a low pressure line. Mostly volume.

before the meter is a high pressure line.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to LiVE4594
Before doing anything check with your AHJ to find out what is required by code. Then you will have the information needed to proceed.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

reply to LiVE4594
There is no fun anymore on dslreports.

It will be slow death

LiVE4594
Something Like a Pimp
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ironton, OH
reply to LiVE4594
We actually live out in the county and anything we do doesnt require inspectors or permits. I'll just leave the black pipe. I found that lowes will cut and thread to spec. That will make my job much easier. Thanks for the feedback.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by LiVE4594:

We actually live out in the county and anything we do doesnt require inspectors or permits. I'll just leave the black pipe. I found that lowes will cut and thread to spec. That will make my job much easier. Thanks for the feedback.

I'm fairly sure you are required to abide by the state building codes whether you get a permit or not.

Your safety and the safety of your family requires it.

Good luck on your project.

LiVE4594
Something Like a Pimp
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ironton, OH
reply to LiVE4594
Obviously safety is paramount. Hence the exploring and asking before doing anything.

Thanks!


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
You made the right choice with the Black Iron Pipe.


shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·Comcast
·Atlantic Nexus
said by Jack_in_VA:

You made the right choice with the Black Iron Pipe.

Too bad noone sells it anymore.

HD/Lows now sell mild-steel, welded pipe disguised as "black pipe". Used it on my generator and it rusts fairly quick.
--
Scott Henion

Embedded Systems Consultant,
SHDesigns home - DIY Welder


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
I just Googled "Black Iron Pipe" and found it available almost everywhere. Lowes, HD, Grainger, Ferguson, local supply houses etc.

Black Iron Pipe is not the same as Black Steel Pipe.


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2
Our local Ace Hardware sells black iron pipe... they will cut it to length and thread it for you, too. It's still readily available.

harald

join:2010-10-22
Columbus, OH
kudos:2
There is no such thing as black iron pipe. It hasn't been manufactured in decades.

Galvanized or black, the pipe is mild steel with an ERW seam.

Good luck in finding anything that is actually made of iron. Wrought iron, for example, is mild steel and has been that for over a century.

As for CSST, the utility installed it in my house as a part of installing new plastic mains. I had them remove it.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to LiVE4594
Seems to be a lot of disdain here for CSST. Isn't that what tp0d and others use for modern installs?!? I would say most newer homes with gas were built with it..

As long as it's installed properly (bonded and leak checked), it seems to pose no greater risk than anything else in a typical home (electricity, plumbing, etc.): »www.csstsafety.com/CSST-FAQs.html#faq1

Actually, one advantage over iron piping is the reduced number of fittings, hence a reduced number of leak points.


shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·Comcast
·Atlantic Nexus
reply to harald
said by harald:

here is no such thing as black iron pipe. It hasn't been manufactured in decades.

Yes, if it was made and at your local box store; blacksmiths would jump on it as there is no available iron other than old scrap.


tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:6
reply to LiVE4594
Nothing wrong with properly installed CSST. There are hundreds of thousands of feet of TracPipe, Gastite, WardFlex piping installed, with very few issues. I have installed hundreds of feet myself, never an issue.

The newer stuff (counterstrike) has a lightening barrier in it that distributes any charge, and the stainless that is used is non-rusting.

As I have read most of the comments, including the OP's, he should stay with his existing steel pipe system, it doesnt make any sense to rip out a working system

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to LiVE4594
I have both black iron and a huge run of orange 3" for the pool heater, grill, fire pit.

No problems
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