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papachan

@myvzw.com

1 edit

[Install] 1600' of underground

What is the best under ground cable to use


KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1

Re: 1600' of underground

OK, explain what exactly are you are trying to do??

You are talking about hardline at that distance.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


papachan

@myvzw.com
Yes i have a plow that I'm plowing it in from road to house ...i do under ground low volt multy strand

theisonews

join:2013-09-19
Miami, FL
tell us more of your plowing. are you a contractor, do you work for a cable company or are you just running your own cable from the site a to site B?


papachan

@myvzw.com
I work for some one and we do low volt lighting ..putting it in for family do i need to put in rg11 or 320 and will i need a splice box..or a boster for that distence????????

theisonews

join:2013-09-19
Miami, FL
reply to papachan
i really have no idea. but this is what i found from google

»www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Deter···7929.htm
»blog.primuscable.com

also yahoo answer is a good source to get a better answer. i posted your question on yahoo answer.

»answers.yahoo.com/question/index···1AAhv5pU


papachan

@myvzw.com
I have a 1600' run for tv and internet ..from main trunk to house I'm just puting in the wire for family and our local tv peolple will install the rest


KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to papachan
said by papachan :

..putting it in for family do i need to put in rg11 or 320 and will i need a splice box..or a boster for that distence????????

RG11 or QR320 won't go 1600 feet, they are almost useless at just 400 feet, due to the amount of signal loss..

Think more along the idea of a 1-inch hardline feeder cable, and even that will most likely require an amplifier.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


flwpwr

@comcast.net
reply to papachan
For standard drop cable RG6 is limited to about 150 feed and RG11 to 250 feet per current digit cable standards, with loss. You can look up loss per 100 feet here

»www.timesfiber.com/TFC_Cable_Book_III.pdf

But you want to be limited to about 9dB/mV loss on the high frequency end. For 1600' I don't think your going to find this, you need Comcast to extend PLANT closer to this house. The only way to get that done is for the family to CALL comcast and get a serviceability done and get an estimate done cost to built out. They have them decide, after that RG6 or RG11 should be doable, but not at 1600 feet.

even the fattest plant coax [series 1000 which is 1"] in that book will end up losing 19 dB/mV at 1600 feet, which is 10dB/mV too much.

A word regarding house amps because that is your next though you have to have a certain level of signal to amp it, otherwise your SNR is too low and your just making more NOISE not more signal. After losing 19 dB/mV you will not have the appropriate levels to amp it.

In a word there is NO way you can do this right, without comcast extending plant.


Tech1111

@comcast.net

1 recommendation

U will need run .625 or .875 hardline to the pole(most cable companies don't use 1000 (1g series).If theres already cable on the street they will tie it in for u.If u need the hardline,sometimes if u stop by ur cable office they will hook u up.(because u already plowed a ditch for it).Or they may charge u a fee for the hardline.The best is just stop at ur local office and tell them what ur doing.Most of the time if u did most of the work they will help u out.

saratoga66

join:2002-08-22
Saratoga, CA
reply to papachan
said by papachan :

I work for some one and we do low volt lighting ..putting it in for family do i need to put in rg11 or 320 and will i need a splice box..or a boster for that distence????????

You are wasting your time and the family's money. Comcast will never connect anything you install. This project requires a plant extension. It will need to be engineered and installed by Comcast.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to Tech1111
And what happens when he finds out they dont use 625 or 875 either.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to papachan
We use specially designed plow blades to run what most cable companies use today. More than likely the cable is going to be at least qr715 and very possibly qr860. Unless you want to be paying 1000 bucks for a plow blade your probably not going to be able to run it. When dealing with this type of cable, the cable size is the actual measured size and when you get up into the 715 and 860 sizes it takes special sweep sizes in the plow blade itself or what you put in gets damaged. Unless your a cable company contractor you more than likely will just be making enemies trying to be nice.


papchan

@myvzw.com
I have 7 diffrent plow sizes and 8 depeths that i can go but thank you much

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
Your going to find that someone called the cable company and asked if its fine to install there own cable and got a yes its fine. Trust me i do this for a living. Stop any tech or stop at your local cable company office and talk to them specifieing its 1600 feet. Notice i didnt say you wouldnt have the blades for depth or size. I said unless you do this cable for a living you wont have the proper sweep within your blade. This cable can only have a certain sweep and we special order our plow blades with that sweep inside the blade. You are wasting your time unless you go in and talk to your local cable company. even if you nail it down to lets say qr715 not all qr715 is equal. Rg6 ,11 qr320 anyone can run with any blade. when your dealing with anything over qr540 you need to start considering sweep within the blade. You cant bend this shit at that angle and it still be good.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to papchan
Click for full size
Looks like a normal plow blade. But if you look close it has a bigger opening on the bottom. That is designed for less sweep within the blade. Unless you happen to buy your machine from a cable contractor you wont have one. They are custom built and cost over 1000.00 dollars.


papachan

@myvzw.com
We have one if not the same type..when i put in my under ground wire that is 15/8" wide i use it .thank you much

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
Cable cant bend like wire. You seem to be stuck on size. But ok go at it. I now see why most cable companies wont hook customer installed hard line up. Its not what you can feed in the plow. Its the radius within the plow that isnt normal. I will snap a couple of pictures today of the measurements to show you what it takes to keep the radius within specs. will post tonight.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to papachan
Forgot to do today. I will do tomorrow.


flwpwr

@comcast.net
reply to Tech1111
said by Tech1111 :

U will need run .625 or .875 hardline to the pole(most cable companies don't use 1000 (1g series).If theres already cable on the street they will tie it in for u.If u need the hardline,sometimes if u stop by ur cable office they will hook u up.(because u already plowed a ditch for it).Or they may charge u a fee for the hardline.The best is just stop at ur local office and tell them what ur doing.Most of the time if u did most of the work they will help u out.

I never said to use 1", I just used it to show the lowest loss cable size, which shows this idea will not work out signal wise, who cares about tool wise at this point. It needs a plant extension. And once that happens he only needs a 150/250 foot trench and some conduit to push RG6/RG11 through, maybe less. So unless he has a PLANT design he is following [and then why he posting here?] this is a waste of time and money. One will assume he only cares about getting paid and not whether it will work so he is running with it...

But for the rest..

RG6 loses      5.65 dB/mV over 100 foot at 750 Mhz.
RG11 loses    3.65 dB/mV over 100 foot at 750 Mhz.
S1000 loses   1.21 dB/mV over 100 foot at 750 Mhz.
 

So [RG6] 1.5 * 5.65 is 8.5
and [RG11] 2.5 * 3.65 is 9.1 so this is where I get the about 9 dB, 8.5 to 9.1 lets go with 9.
Now [series 1000] 16 * 1.21 [as if this is not painfully obvious] is going to give him 19.1 dB loss over 1600 feet at 750 Mhz. 9 versus 19 is a BIG difference.

This is what you are looking at. 1600 feet is just TOO FAR for a single unamplified piece of cable to run.

This can all be looked up and calculated out using the link I provided, it is that simple.
It is basic math, we all learned this in like 3rd grade, decimals and multiplication. 3rd grade math proves this a bad idea, but he's going to do it anyway becasue he does not care.

So I suggest ignoring this post and letting him learn the hard way.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
LOL, not to mention most cable companies dont use 625 or 875. Most. and this isnt limited to comcast went to qr series hardline. Would most hook it up. Good question since once they hook it up they are on the hook to replace it if it goes bad?


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
comcast in my REGION uses P3 625 and 875. no QR.
--
I'm better than you!

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
Thats why i said most. Personally i like the p series hard line better than the qr series. Its much easier to run. Other than qr being easier to work with from a tech stand point is there any benefit of one over the other from a performance stand point? Qr is a pain in the ass from the construction side of things. Its way to easy to damage. The only advantage i see from this end is the cost factor.


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
you are spot on with saying QR damages easy, its aluminum shield is flimsy and cracks/bends easy.

we have some QR 1000 and 1125 mixed in with our P3 1000/1125. at that point it doesnt matter who makes it, donkey dick cable doesnt bend no matter whose name is on it.
--
I'm better than you!


KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to papachan

Re: [Install] 1600' of underground

All of this is a good reason to require that whoever tries to bury their own drop at that kind of distance, does it in at least 2 1/2 inch conduit, without any bends in it.

So if what gets buried is defective, it can easily be replaced, without any further digging.

The OP should plow in 2 1/2 inch conduit as a minimum, and put it at least 2-3 feet down.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

2 edits
I'd recommend the OP get the local cable construction department involved. For a 1600 ft cable run a hardened outdoor amplifier will need to be installed at a particular point in a proper housing and it will also require power. The amplifier will require proper input and output signals to be setup for downstream and upstream signals. All of that is well beyond just installing 1600 ft of cable in conduit.

If the amplifier is setup wrong the cable company will refuse to connect any of it to the system.
--
Start with what you can do, solutions will follow...


KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS
A common line or extender amp at the pole will push 1600', there shouldn't be a need to put one in the middle somewhere.

No separate power would be needed, the existing voltage on the trunk/feeder cable powers the amplifiers.

Also, a pedestal with a tap with the appropriate face plate would need to be installed at or close to the house.

This is beyond a simple cable drop to a single home, it's a significant plant extension.

This is the kind of exception that Comcast should look more closely at, when you are talking over 1500 feet from the existing plant, Fiber would be a much better choice.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
Where the amp needs to be placed totally depends on how much signal is available at the plant connection point. If it's close to an existing amp, putting another amp right after it is pointless.

The availability of power is questionable. It may not be on the line at that point or the system may be maxed and not able to take the additional load of another amp and feeder cable without reconfiguring existing equipment.
--
Start with what you can do, solutions will follow...


KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
That's why it isn't a drop, it's a plant extension.

Engineering needs to get involved, so it's done right the first time.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


submrge

join:2004-10-10
Brooklyn, NY
reply to DrDrew
they would most likely amplify that new leg. If there's an amp already at the street it's to amp the existing feeder that continues down the street.

a 1600 foot plant extension would definitely need an amp regardless of which actives are already installed. so this guy will most likely be charged for the new amp, ped and tap.