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PedanticCdn
@blackberry.net

PedanticCdn

Anon

With Upcoming Tracking, Anyone Break Out Of Contract?

As discussed in various places on these forums, it looks like Bell is about to increase its tracking activities and offer the data for sale to third parties. Has anyone tried to break out of their contract without early termination fees? To me, this seems like enough of a change to the terms of service that they shouldn't be entitled to any such fees. Has anyone tried? How did that go?

Long story short, we have a total of five accounts with them, and we're considering scrapping them all. They can't justifiably both increase our rates on almost every service at least yearly, while also selling our data; no service is that good.
hogtownhog
join:2013-08-23
Toronto, ON

hogtownhog

Member

Not knowing anything for sure, I have a feeling that the contract you've signed doesn't recognize an issue like this as grounds for cancellation on your behalf.
what07
join:2013-07-18
Toronto, ON

what07 to PedanticCdn

Member

to PedanticCdn
Does anyone know howmuch they are offering our data for? I could use some discounts and I call bell daily so alot of reps get annoyed with me haha.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to PedanticCdn

Member

to PedanticCdn
I highly doubt they'll accept it as reasonable grounds to cancel. Your data is collected regardless of who your provider is. Bell is just the first one to sell that data as an additional revenue stream. You can opt out of having your data sold, but it will still be collected like it always has been.
AsherN
Premium Member
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

AsherN

Premium Member

said by btech805:

I highly doubt they'll accept it as reasonable grounds to cancel. Your data is collected regardless of who your provider is. Bell is just the first one to admit selling that data as an additional revenue stream. You can opt out of having your data sold, but it will still be collected like it always has been.

FTFY

um no
@videotron.ca

um no to btech805

Anon

to btech805
said by btech805:

You can opt out of having your data sold, but it will still be collected like it always has been.

No. The opt out is on targeted ads you receive only. It will still be sold and still be collected.
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606 to PedanticCdn

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to PedanticCdn
Yes. I was able to break a 2 year Fibe TV contract with 17 months remaining and not pay the early cancellation fee. It took a while to argue my points, but I was firm that they gave no other options since I could not completely opt-out. After getting them to agree that there was no option except cancel and asking to speak to a supervisor they let me cancel without penalties.

PedanticCdn
@blackberry.net

PedanticCdn

Anon

That's very interesting; thanks for the reply. It seems a little odd that they let you cancel when it only applies to mobile so far. Since it is a mobile contract that I would like to get rid of, I may have to give this a try. The other services will likely follow when they announce tracking will begin on those.

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

said by PedanticCdn :

That's very interesting; thanks for the reply. It seems a little odd that they let you cancel when it only applies to mobile so far. Since it is a mobile contract that I would like to get rid of, I may have to give this a try. The other services will likely follow when they announce tracking will begin on those.

If they refuse you, try bringing this one to the CRTC, or privcom.gc.ca, or the CRTC.

If I had Bell mobile while they are pulling this I would not stop at Bell to get rid of the contract. I would go all out to have it terminate based on what they are doing here.

If you are a Quebecer, I would give the Consumers Union a call. Even then, the Quebec Consumers Union told me they also accepts calls and complaints and gives advice to people in other provinces when I asked them.
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606 to PedanticCdn

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to PedanticCdn
Their customer service agents are not very well informed on this change. I spoke to 3 agents and each one had to put me on hold to find out about the privacy change. The first time I called I spoke to someone in regular customer service and he was not able to do anything for me other than admit there was now way to completely opt-out and cancelling was the only way. The second time I called I choose the options to cancel a service to get to the loyalty department. They were able to get a supervisor's approval to cancel without penalty. Just be firm and insist you should not be have to pay a penalty when the only option to completely opt-out is to cancel.

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

said by dwc0606:

The second time I called I choose the options to cancel a service to get to the loyalty department. They were able to get a supervisor's approval to cancel without penalty.

You aren't out of the woods yet. Bell always says one thing and does another.

Chances are when you open your bill in relation to this cancellation, you are going to be in for a very big surprise.

Let us know 30-60-days down the road. HEH
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606

Member

I expect that so I made notes of the date, time, and Agent ID # each time I called. I also verified with two different agents that there would be no cancellation fees and that notes were recorded on my account. I filed a complaint with the CCTS on Oct. 23rd after the first call, so I have this as a fallback just in case. Bell has not replied to my complaint yet. I will follow-up after receiving my final bill.

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

The CCTS will blow you of on anything to do with privacy (even though it is within the CRTCs mandate).

If you get a rely back from the CCTS, post it so that we can see what they tell you. Then I would take the reply of them blowing you off and file your complaint with the privacy commissioner of Canada (privcom.gc.ca). They can rule that your concerns are "well founded". Might not be much they can do on a telecom level and contract breaking, but a "well founded" ruling can be bought to the CRTC and it's the CRTC's job to enforce what the privacy commissioner states since they have complimentary roles.

When it comes to privacy + telecom + contracts, it is quite the circle.

(and I would also give a copy of everything you have to the Consumers union, PIAC and CIPPIC since this is going to hit the CRTC anyhow).

Thus every single base is covered. No where for Bell to hide. Nothing Bell would be able to say or do. Bell would rather shut you up and give you what you want rather than make an issue of it that would likely hit all the desks above, and likely the press. Bell wouldn't like it if other people followed what you do to cancel a contract, know what I mean. Public knowledge isn't good for business and their new private communications data-mining business.
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606

Member

I just received Bell's reply to the CCTS. I will provide the original response to my complaint from the CCTS and Bell's reply below.

CCTS:

"Thank you for contacting the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (CCTS). The CCTS is an independent agency with a mandate to receive, facilitate the resolution of, and, if necessary, resolve eligible consumer and small business complaints relating to certain retail telecommunications services.

We have received your complaint and hereby advise you that your complaint falls within the scope of our mandate and will be processed in accordance with our Procedural Code (the "Code"), which can be found at:

»www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/doc ··· ral-code

Please note, however, that the portions of your complaint regarding TSP policies and procedures, as well as privacy concerns are not within the CCTS's scope or mandate. Therefore, these portion of your complaint will not be processed by the CCTS.

We encourage you to review the Code so that you are aware of the complaint resolution process as well as your rights and responsibilities as a customer.

In accordance with Section 6.5 of the Code, we have forwarded your complaint to your telecommunications services provider (TSP). Pursuant to Section 6.6 of the Code, your TSP is to:

a) within 15 days of receipt of the complaint advise the CCTS in writing, with a copy to you, that the TSP objects to the complaint on the basis that in their view, it should not be investigated pursuant to the Procedural Code or any other lawful reason;

b) within 30 days of receipt of the complaint advise the CCTS in writing, with a copy to you, that the complaint has been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both you and the TSP; or

c) within 30 days of receipt of the complaint advise the CCTS in writing, with a copy to you, that the complaint remains unresolved and of the TSP's intention to file a written response thereto.

In the event that your TSP responds that the complaint has been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both you and the TSP and you disagree that the matter has been resolved, you must advise CCTS within 20 days of your TSP's response.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding your complaint, or anything contained in this correspondence, please do not hesitate to contact us.

CCTS

P.O. Box 81088

Ottawa, ON

K1P 1B1

1-888-221-1687

Please ensure to retain this correspondence for future reference.

Sincerely,

CCTS Assessment Team"

Bell:

"Dear CCTS Assessment Team,

Thank you for your email.

Bell objects to this complaint based on Section 3 (p) "Privacy Issues" of the CCTS Procedural Code which outline issues that fall outside the Commissioner's Scope, and furthermore, based on Section 4.3 (of the CCTS Procedural Code), whereby the CCTS cannot direct, nor change, a Participating Service Provider's policies or operating practices.

We're informing our customers of the initiative in advance and ensuring they can easily opt-out at www.bell.ca/relevantads.

Please confirm the acceptance of our objection, and at which point, we will proceed to treat the complaint as a 'Referral'.

Thank you kindly for your time,

Bell Residential Team"

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

lol
said by dwc0606:

Please note, however, that the portions of your complaint regarding TSP policies and procedures, as well as privacy concerns are not within the CCTS's scope or mandate. Therefore, these portion of your complaint will not be processed by the CCTS.

and more lol's:
said by dwc0606:

Bell objects to this complaint based on Section 3 (p) "Privacy Issues" of the CCTS Procedural Code which outline issues that fall outside the Commissioner's Scope, and furthermore, based on Section 4.3 (of the CCTS Procedural Code), whereby the CCTS cannot direct, nor change, a Participating Service Provider's policies or operating practices.

See.

I'm not sure what the rest of your complaint is, I don't think that was made clear in this topic. Not sure.

But, if I were in your shoes, I would file a complaint with the CRTC and include the above correspondence you have.

I would then state somewhere in my complaint to the CRTC:
"As the Privacy Commissioner of Canada stated in writing to the CRTC, the CRTC has a mandate to oversee privacy per the Telecom Act that is complimentary to the privacy Commissioner of Canada's mandate".

If they blow you off as well, then you file it all, everything, to the Privacy commissioner of Canada stating that: "Bell Canada, the CCTS, and the CRTC refuse to take your privacy seriously (as they are mandated to per the Telecom ACT) and you would like an investigation started with the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.

It would be one sweet thing to see.

Don't forget to include (ie. contact and CC) the consumer groups stated above.
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606

Member

This was the complaint I filed:

"Bell Canada's announcement that it will start Customer profiling, online behavioural marketing on Nov. 16, 2013 as shown here, »support.bell.ca/billing- ··· ?step=4v. I heard about this through media only and have had no official notice from Bell Canada on the change. My complaint is that I have no way to opt out of this tracking. The only option is to opt out of receiving targeted ads for Bell mobile phones here, »mobilebrowser.bwanet.ca/ ··· -en.jsp#. I did not agree to this tracking when I signed up for service with Bell and I do not agree now.

I contacted Bell Canada and was not given any options to opt out of tracking completely other than cancelling my services with Bell Canada. Of course, this would mean incurring an early cancellation fee, but Bell Canada has given me no other options to resolve this issue and I should not have to pay an early cancellation fee."

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

Sounds good. I wonder what the CCTS will do for the part they found in scope?
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606

Member

I just found out what the CCTS would do. They rolled over accepting Bell's argument, ignoring mine, and closed my complaint.

DoIT
@videotron.ca

DoIT

Anon

said by dwc0606:

I just found out what the CCTS would do. They rolled over accepting Bell's argument, ignoring mine, and closed my complaint.

haha Back to what I stated above. This is where I get to say, "I told you so".

Do as I stated above. Give this entire complaint to the CRTC now and include the part about privacy I stated up above.

If this comes back negative again, then send everything off (with every reply you get) to privcom.gc.ca (and CC the 3 consumer groups with it all).

Don't walk away from this fight.
dwc0606
join:2010-03-16
Scarborough, ON

dwc0606

Member

I filed a complaint with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada at the same time as the complaint to the CCTS. I received a temporary file number, but so far no one has contacted me. I will see where that goes. As for the CRTC and consumer groups, if Bell reviews my account they will see that I cancelled and there is a note on my account that the ECF was waived. I don't know how it would play out since Bell can say they resolved the matter, even if the underlying concerns were never addressed.
Mustafa7
join:2006-10-04

Mustafa7 to PedanticCdn

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Bell recently installed Fibre in my neighbourhood. They had salesmen going around pushing HS internet and fibre TV. I was interested because it was a better price then what Shaw is giving me. Then I heard about their blatant spying on their subscribers. I just threw away their pamphlet after reading that. I'll also make sure everybody in the neighbourhood is aware of Bell's invasion of there privacy and then charging them for the privilege.

I imagine eventually all TELCO's and cable companies will start doing this BS now. I can't believe there isn't more backlash about this.

I checked out Bells face book page almost all it is negative comments, yet they are still in business. It's nice to be monopoly.

No I'm not a Shaw shill in my opinion they are all a bunch of crooks. Shaw is just the lesser of 2 evils for me now. I was hoping to be able to bounce back between the two on intruductory deals.

The government either needs to step in and regulate these clowns or swing open the doors for foreign competition,