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DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

[WIN8] A Laugh For The Win8 Folks

I'm busily reading up everything I can on Win8/Win8.1 before I begin to set my new laptop up, and came across this gem. I would have thrown the book against the wall, but I was reading it on my Nook HD so I restrained myself.

Here's an excerpt from "Windows 8.1: Out of the Box, Edition 2" by Mike Halsey (O'Reilly):

(bolding is mine)

Don't Have Too Much Software Installed

...
You should always keep the number of apps and programs on your computer to a minimum. Having too much software installed can cause Windows 8.1 to slow down over time, and it can also make it much more difficult to find the app or program you want to use.

I would also recommend against installing any app or program that duplicates a function that is already part of Windows; for example CD or DVD burning software, mapping software, or another browser. Each extra piece of software adds to the overall complexity of the computer, and with complexity can come instability, as I write about in my book "Troubleshoot and Optimize Windows 8 Inside Out" (Microsoft Press).

So I want you all to fire up your computers and IMMEDIATELY remove Firefox, Opera, Palemoon, K-Meleon, Iron, Maxthon, et al. Your computers are hanging on to their stability by a thread!

Jeepers! I have 884 programs installed on my current laptop, and WinVista has been able to handle them - and I can find all of them easily. Something must be horribly wrong!
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

Oh lordy, the sky is going to fall if you don't use our software! Wow, FUD from Microsoft.

If Microsoft would actually allow me to really uninstall IE, and not leave IE behind as a damn runtime I would be happy. You can't ignore updates to IE as lazy programmers use it as a runtime, and when IE updates require that I restart my computer I find it ludicrous. "I don't normally use IE, but when I do it's to download another browser." They need to give us more options to remove the Microsoft software if we replace it with 3rd party software to eliminate that so-called complexity.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

3 recommendations

Just could not resist BlitzenZeus See Profile


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

Hahahahahahahahaha!



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 recommendation

reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Wow, FUD from Microsoft.

You mean fud from "Windows 8.1: Out of the Box, Edition 2" by Mike Halsey (O'Reilly)

I didn't realize O'Reilly was Microsoft.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to DownTheShore

The author sounds like he might also be one of those people that insist you need a $1,200 PC just to read email and surf Facebook, because anything less just doesn't have enough power...

I do have to agree with him that having lots of programs installed on a Win 8.x system does indeed "make it much more difficult to find the app or program you want to use". (I thought that I had a lot, at around 100, but apparently I'm a lightweight compared to the 884 that DownTheShore has installed!!! Scrolling through all of that in the F&^%ing "Modern UI" would get old pretty quickly. )



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

So I want you all to fire up your computers and IMMEDIATELY remove Firefox, Opera, Palemoon, K-Meleon, Iron, Maxthon, et al

Why not go one step further, and remove Windows. (Then install linux).
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 24.0


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to BlitzenZeus

They're going down the same route as apple, trying to create the ecosystem that forces you to buy from a Windows "App store" , you know for stability and reliability.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

Apple's motivation is to make money and the store does that for them. I'm sure Microsoft would like to make money too.

Apple software tends to be relatively more stable/reliable because they also control all the hardware where as Microsoft does not.

I'm a big user of the Apple ecosystem (apps more than music) for my mobile devices (since the first iPhone and currently own an iPhone 5 and a second iPad) and I can honestly say that if Windows had provided a similar mobile phone within a year or two of the iPhone's release with a similar touch OS, I would be heavily invested in the Microsoft ecosystem instead -- I'm on my second TouchSmart computer and would love to have all the same apps across my desktop and mobile devices -- that's where Microsoft is headed (in part) and it makes sense.

This also why I don't mind having an Apple ID (all my apps now automatically update in iOS 7, it's great; my previously purchased music available for download to multiple devices, etc) or a Microsoft ID (though there's no big advantage for me at this point). There are conveniences that comes with having a single account across multiple devices and for being part of an ecosystem -- for me they're more than worth it.

Just my $0.02 worth
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC
reply to DownTheShore

I'm sure that if you read "Windows 8: Out of the Box" or Windows 7: Out of the Box" or "Windows Vista: Out of the Box" or Windows XP: Out of the Box" it probably has the same generic advice, word for word. You could probably write half of that book without ever having seen Windows 8.1. These guys crank them out.

They must be over-joyed now that MS is planning on releasing a new OS every year.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to HarryH3

Click for full size
said by HarryH3:

I do have to agree with him that having lots of programs installed on a Win 8.x system does indeed "make it much more difficult to find the app or program you want to use". (I thought that I had a lot, at around 100, but apparently I'm a lightweight compared to the 884 that DownTheShore has installed!!! Scrolling through all of that in the F&^%ing "Modern UI" would get old pretty quickly. )

Looks like I have even less then you do! My installed programs are just over 30.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

Just to show I wasn't fooling around:




I'm a Big Fish Game Club member so I've got a lot of casual games stored on my laptop. I'm also active in the Digital Imaging forums here, so I also have a lot of art/editing software and plug-ins.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to JohnInSJ

Microsoft Press, they had to approve the book before they distributed it.



DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to Glen T

said by Glen T:

I'm sure that if you read "Windows 8: Out of the Box" or Windows 7: Out of the Box" or "Windows Vista: Out of the Box" or Windows XP: Out of the Box" it probably has the same generic advice, word for word. You could probably write half of that book without ever having seen Windows 8.1. These guys crank them out.

They must be over-joyed now that MS is planning on releasing a new OS every year.

I finished reading it, and it was pretty generic and had a definite "greatest thing since sliced-bread" tone about it. Nothing at all in it about what to do if you want to make Win8 visually resemble an OS you might be more familiar with, or what to do if you have the number of programs that I do.

Come to think of it, it didn't really explain well why one would prefer an "app" over a "program", nor did it ever point out that having the computer without a touch screen means that Win8 seems to be more work clicking-wise to get something done. I'm familiar with the app concept from the ones I've gotten via Google Play, but there really is no explanation why I should want apps instead of icons linking to the program itself on a device that's not a tablet or a phone.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

I suspect that there will never be an app in the MS Store that does chemical process simulation, or CAD on a phone, or any number of other business or engineering applications. The way I think about this is, 'deskop applications' for business and industry, and 'apps' for entertainment.

My problem is that I don't want to be entertained by my PC. I just need it to get out of my way and let me do my work.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

So I want you all to fire up your computers and IMMEDIATELY remove Firefox, Opera, Palemoon, K-Meleon, Iron, Maxthon, et al.

Sheesh. At one point, I had every single one of those installed. In fact, I had multiple copies of Opera and Iron. Well, that was before I went to Win 8. Now I have... well... not exactly the same loadout but I still have more browsers than I reasonably should have.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

Not everything works right with one single browser, that's why everyone should have more than one. I also make sure that I have one that's pristine with no stored cookies, cached pages, favorites or bookmarks so if I want to see how a webpage looks to someone else, I can.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

I have my all my browsers configured to not save anything new from the session, permanent private browsing. I even made a manual shortcut to IE with the -private command line option. For chromium/chrome it's -incognito, and I even do that for my linux installs too since it loves to keep a history by default. Firefox allows itself to be configured always as a private browser.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to HarryH3

said by HarryH3:

Scrolling through all of that in the F&^%ing "Modern UI" would get old pretty quickly. )

Which is why you type a few letters and filter it down to a handful
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Microsoft Press, they had to approve the book before they distributed it.

Yeah... ok, so I am sure they reviewed it very very carefully. As in, not at all.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

Not everything works right with one single browser, that's why everyone should have more than one.

Additionally, when you use several browsers, you make it harder for them to track you.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 24.0


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to DownTheShore

Another amusing thing I found in my readings, this time from "Windows 8 - The Official Magazine" (Nov 2013):

There are several easy-to-remember ways to access the Device Manager tool. The easiest way in Windows 8 is to press the [Windows] key to bring up the Start screen, then type in the command Device Manager. Then simply click "Settings" on the right-hand side of the screen, then select "Device Manager" from the list that appears on the left-hand side.

Now, that's four steps to get to the Device manager, involving pushing buttons, typing commands and clicking twice.

I have an icon on my Vista desktop that links directly to the Device Manager - one click. If I really wanted to get involved, I would click on the Control Panel icon on the desktop, and THEN click on Device Manager.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

What's not obvious is you can right click on the start button, or the lower left corner on win 8, to bring up a menu like this. The options changed from 8 to 8.1, like 8.1 has a shutdown options now.




I've been saying things like this since the win 8 beta, but they also have a very basic device manager through metro, it's really simplistic. They're working on replacing the desktop with metro as they really want their tablets to succeed, however Win 8 is neither a great os for the tablet, or desktop. They should have just made a special tablet edition for arm, and had a special program on the desktop to run the metro apps windowed, even let you use their live tiles on your desktop since they killed gadgets.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

have 884 programs installed on my current lapto

Ultimately the challenge is finding one of those apps when you want it, so how do you organize your apps etc as I doubt they are in a random ordered list of 884 items.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

3 edits

I've used Start Menu X (and its various previous incarnations) for years. I periodically go into AppData-Roaming and Program Data when I've either added or updated a bunch of programs recently, to consolidate the information into subgroups to make everything manageable. I use basic groups like "Media Tools", "Document Tools", "Internet Tools", etc. to keep similar software functions together. In groups where I have a lot of programs, like "Games" and "Imaging", I further break down the subgroups into alphabetical groupings, so I know that for example Filter Forge will be with the F's and Photoscape with be with the P's. I could probably even break things down further using the tab function on the bottom of the screen, but I've never really bothered with that because the system I have allows me to find the things I need. (BTW, "Neat Things" contains things like Google Earth, Rosetta Stone and the Merck Index. )




I'll probably put that program on the Win8 computer, too.

bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
reply to BlitzenZeus

I was in the UK last week and the first time i turned my computer on a Windows 7 update popped up. I checked to see what it was for, and low and behold, it was a Microsoft EU legal requirement to remove IE.
»gizmodo.com/5290032/microsoft-vo···pease-eu
I use IE to VPN into a server, so I did not run the update.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

It removes the shortcut, not the core files which are a runtime.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

said by DownTheShore:

have 884 programs installed on my current lapto

Ultimately the challenge is finding one of those apps when you want it, so how do you organize your apps etc as I doubt they are in a random ordered list of 884 items.

Blake

Easy. Put them in folders and nested sub-folders as you want them to be organized. For example, in my XP boxes I have two my toolbars accessible from auto-hiding toolbar at the bottom - "Main" toolbar with all my programs in very organized nested structures and "Docs" with all my documents). Even if I can get to any program from my "Main" toolbar, I've made additional auto-hiding side bar on the left side of the desktop, where there is a lot of shortcuts to programs/tools, that I use often, and therefore, I want to have quick assess with just one click. So, with hundreds programs installed there is no challenge mentioned in your post - there is no need to make any search or typing a commands, when I want to launch anything I need... That's what m$ should be working on - to make computers become better organized and to serve better to my needs. Not to push this primitive dumb-down tablet/phone-oriented interface on desktop computers, as they try to do with W8/W8.1
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by HarryH3:

Scrolling through all of that in the F&^%ing "Modern UI" would get old pretty quickly. )

Which is why you type a few letters and filter it down to a handful

That assumes you can recall the name of the file or program (then there are the times I type in the name, but Win8 says no matches found. Oops! Wait, I have to mouse over to the right and select "Settings" and NOW Win8 will show me what I want). Stuff like Word or Excel are pretty obvious, but sometimes I want to fire up a tool that I know I have, but I can't remember what it's called. A quick scan down the menu refreshes my memory. The Win8 UI is probably awesome for users that have 2-4 programs that they use every day. (It seems to have been designed for those users that can't even use their computer if the icon for their favorite program gets deleted from their desktop). It sucks out loud for the rest of us.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 recommendation

reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

Another amusing thing I found in my readings, this time from "Windows 8 - The Official Magazine" (Nov 2013):

There are several easy-to-remember ways to access the Device Manager tool. The easiest way in Windows 8 is to press the [Windows] key to bring up the Start screen, then type in the command Device Manager. Then simply click "Settings" on the right-hand side of the screen, then select "Device Manager" from the list that appears on the left-hand side.

Now, that's four steps to get to the Device manager, involving pushing buttons, typing commands and clicking twice.

I have an icon on my Vista desktop that links directly to the Device Manager - one click. If I really wanted to get involved, I would click on the Control Panel icon on the desktop, and THEN click on Device Manager.

fixed in 8.1. Or you could always pin it to your start screen. Or make a shortcut on your desktop like you did in Vista.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us