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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx

New user. Have tech & account/bandwidth management questions

New sat sufferer here hoping for tips on how to cope with a group house on satellite.

The LAN-side Scene:
Three person house: owner + other tenant who arrived Sept + me who arrived Oct.6. Owner has been struggling to comprehend the tech, Hughes' usage terms, what GBs are, what a modem is, and communicate terms to us. Last night (day 11 of 31) we hit our cap, got throttled, I got assertive, now in management role.

What I've been told or surmised:
• verified: satellite is the only option at this locale.
• Hughes installed on 2013.07.20 under an AT&T microcell incentive (ugh) and Pro plan (billing periods = 20th - 19th).
• Sometime before my move-in the two housemates had exhausted the then 10+10GB allotment. Owner bought tokens to limp through remainder of month.
• Oct.20 = plan upgraded to Pro Plus (10/2mbits, 15+20GB)
• modem = HT1100
• Tech Supp Rep I got at 10pm last night = friendly, relaxed but entirely useless. Answers to each of my questions were either nonsensical or later proved incorrect.

Questions:
1. First & foremost, I'd like each user in the house to receive ongoing feedback on their usage. Ideally near-time but I'm guessing this would mean 3rd-Party router firmware and a whole lot of fiddling around. Does Hughes offer any sort of LAN-side, per device consumption report tools? Has anyone here fashioned their own or know of a firmware that has it built-in + client software?

2. Is the poorly named 'Bonus' period 2a-7a or 8a? Hughes' own docs conflict on this.

3. Hughes offers a download manager. Any reason to use (or avoid) theirs versus one of the many other freebies? All things equal = I'll use open source.

4. Was my CustServ experience Status quo? Is there a tier-2 we can get to?

5. What are bcosell & gwalk talking about in this thread??? Sounds important but not seen mention elsewhere. Has it a goofy marketing name I should look up? (eg: Hughes Data Drip aka HDD for extra confusion)

6. Asked TechSupp to what speed Hughes throttled. She didn't know, put me on hold, came back and said "we take away 70% of what you have." An odd way to phrase it so I said "do you mean it gets throttled to 30% of purchased speed?" to which she eagerly replied "yes!" I found this fantastically good news until I tried using the connection and it was very slow. Later found gwalk's link (thank you!) to the only intelligible page yet found on the Hughes site: Fair Access Policy. Therein it's claimed "approximately 150kbps". What do ya'll see for speeds when throttled? I didn't speed test it but wondering if it's fixed or scaled to loads.

7. How to discover what sat I'm talking to + verify it's my best option? Guessing these values are involved: Beam=26, Outroute=16, Gateway=2.

8. If I want to take the easy route and simple ask Hughes to perm-throttle our down speeds to, say, 4mbit will they do it? It would better match monthly allotment.

Thanks for reading. Kinda long, I know. Learning curve.



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

1 edit

I'm on my Nook right now so its a bit tough to post links. If needed I will link to software later.

1. Links later.

2. The Bonus Byte period runs from 2 AM to 8 AM your local time.
Confusion may be due to the fact that the several Hughes platforms are handled differently.

3. Your choice really. Be advised that many downloads require user input. Those, make an unattended downloader useless.

4. Your CS experience was typical. Lower tiers (1-3) are script driven. No real thought or knowledge there. Script is restarted at every level.

5. My thread referred to the refill of a legacy HN7000 system and does not apply to you if you have as stated a HT1000 modem.

6.The page of mine you linked to is the correct info for a true Gen4 system. That is what you have if if you have either a HT1000 or HT1100 modem.

As to usage, I come from a 7000 system that had a daily data cap with an hourly refill so that tends to alter my "view" of Gen4 that has a monthly refill and two data (3 really) buckets.
Hughes claims a 28 day refill cycle.
You stated your plan offers 15 GB Anytime Bytes & 20 GB Bonus Bytes. You can Pig Out and quickly burn thru your allowance putting you in a position of being throttled or buying Tokens, or you can monitor your usage and divvy it up on a daily bases.

So Anytime Bytes would be 15000 MB divided by 28 days (18 hour days) equals very little per day, divide that among three users and you have a drop in the bucket each. In addition to that, you also have to consider that unlike legacy Hughes plans Uploads also count against your data allotment. In fact it appears that even a 4Kb dn / 4Kb up per hour around the clock system "Heartbeat" is also being counted.

Do that same thing again with the Bonus Bytes period and you will know how much data you can "spend" in each period, each day.

Sort through my posted answers, list any points that you would like me to clarify and I'll try to answer when I'm on my computet along with links to software.



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.
reply to jap

7. If you have the HT1100 modem, then you have the Gen4 platform. The Sat it can use is Echostar17 located at 107.3' W.
The true Gen4 system offer plans with either "Up To" 10 Mbps or 15 Mbps.
The key words here are Up To. Hughes offers no plan gaurenntees. Hughes is clearly oversold, not the Satellite itself but the ground facilities become overloaded. Hughes refers to this as Prime Time. Much also depends on many people are on your asigned beam. nothing really you can do about it as you have to be located within the "footprint" of your beam coverage area.
If some pages load slow sometimes it helps to go into the advanced pages of the modems SCC and "toogle" Web Acceleration.

8. There is now way AFAIK for Hughes topo selectivly throttle you other than being FAPed.

Frankly I'm hard pressed to see how you are going to be happy with Hughes unless you are willing to spend a small fortune on tokens. The data limits are just to tight for the numbers of users you have.

You may have been much better served if it is available to you to have went with Exede12, at least you would have had the over night free zone.

Also keep in mind that when you deplete the Bonus Bytes allowance, it will then start to drain your Anytime Bytes that you need for daytime/evening use.



diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·HughesNet Satell..
reply to jap

Here is my little collection of tools »www.dropbox.com/sh/bwjhuoash8juw···VlYFjwA8

advisorinstaller: tool that tells you everything about your system, won't need it but it does come in handy.

hughesnet status meter.msi is a tool built by hughesnet for HN9000, HN9200, HT1000, and HT1100 modem model's (as far as i know of)

networx_setup.exe is a tool that monitor's your internet bandwidth, anything that goes out or comes in, networx picks it up.

Also here is a new tool that i mentioned over on the community, it blocks out bad or dangerous connections with IP address and blocks you from dangerous spamming or threatening websites. I highly recommend it to anyone: »sourceforge.net/projects/peerblo···download
--
HT1000/ BeamID 32/ Power Max plan/ 4 pcs on a D-Link wired switch/ wireless D-Link router with password

Support only the gaming company's that matter the most, pay for something that actually is worth buying or has a good reason for how much it's worth.


Melissa B

join:2013-03-12
Loogootee, IN
reply to jap

Hi Jap, Looks like Gwalk an Diablo pretty well have you covered, just a minor correction an a few things to add. First: "So Anytime Bytes would be 15000 MB divided by 28 days (18 hour days) equals very little per day" Its actually less depending on month. Your refill is not a set amount of days it's dependant on billing, for instance my bill due on the 8th so that's when it refills. So it could be any where from 28-31 days depending on the month

»192.168.0.1/ this is where you'll find your realtime Meter, it will show you what you have left how long till BB as well as how many days left to refill. As far as feed back on usage, I second the networx Diablo mentioned. Very informative program. There's also a sync feature and a setup to monitor your router (all LAN connections) if your router supports it. Otherwise you'll have to use monitor from each device an tally it up. If you need a more informative program(one that tells you what programs/ports) to tell you whats sucking up your allowance try cucusoft netguard located here: »www.cucusoft.com/netguard.aspx

For a better understanding of the types of things that may use your allowance an tips to better manage, readt this thread(watch out for collasped post) : »community.myhughesnet.com/hughes···ice_plan Covers things from Netflix, youtube, facbook games and the like, tips using firefox to see individual page(pics,links,ect..)usage, an more... Post is quite lengthy an turns to a BB battle for change but LOTS of valueable info within

As far as throttling user for using a certain amount, if you download the above mentioned networx it has an option under Notification in the settings. That will allow you to warn, drop connection, or even shutdown particular computer after a specific amount of usage during user set amount of time. Some routers also have this sorta feature built in if you access the router settings page. Not to be confused with the "QOS" which may also benefit you but simply prioritizes your connections based on activity



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

Hi Melissa, I just PMed you hoping you would stop by.
On the 28 day I tossed out. I was basing that on Hughes postet statement:

When is my Data Allowance refilled?

Each HughesNet Gen4 terminal is assigned a Data Allowance cycle, based upon the date of activation. The refill cycles are based upon a 28-day month (1-28), and the cycle day matches your activation day. If your service is activated on the 29th, 30th, or 31st day of a month, your cycle will be set to the first day of the month. As an example, if you activate service on October 3, your cycle day is 3, and your Data Allowance will be refilled overnight on the third day of each month. If you activate your service on October 30, your cycle day is 1, and your Data Allowance will be refilled overnight on the first day of each month.

So a closer re-read does indeed show a "float".


Melissa B

join:2013-03-12
Loogootee, IN
reply to jap

Hi Gwalk, Musta caught the vibe lol....Hadn't read that before figured the 31 day issue on my own ages ago, after an unfortunate mishap Boy they sure do like to make things confusing



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

said by Melissa B:

Boy they sure do like to make things confusing

Just because Hughes posted it doesn't mean they are going to follow it , after all it IS Hughes, home of Ambiguity.

Personally, on my usage I set a limit of 15000 divided by 30 giving me 500 Mb Anytime & 500 Mb Bonus time per day as a target usage limit.
Set up a monthly "Benchmarks" at 75%, 50%, 25%. As the month unfolds, check actual usage against Benchmarks and see if I have room to splurge or am behind the curve.

So far though, the OP has failed to return to his thread.

Wyngs

join:2010-02-20
Coos Bay, OR
reply to jap

HN9000. I had three users for a while - down to the two of us now. Having a little knowledge, but not a whole lot, I set up a HOME page for each of them. This consisted of links they used regularly, etc. (They know less then I do and this HP became indespensible to them).

On their HPs I brought in the HN usage graph via iFrame. As they always started at their HPs, they would see the state of our daily limit every time they got on.

It is a good reminder and works well for us. HN pushing the free period start back to 2am (PDT - it use to start at 11PM), was hard to adjust to, but I haven't been fapped in a while now - maybe a month or more, so I guess we're adjusting.



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

Wyngs,
Good plan to start everyone with a view of the status meter however, in the OPs case he is faced with users that have already proven they lack even basic understanding of Hughes practices. It gets even worse when you consider Gen$4 has no overnight free period like legacy plans, also, and this is bigger factor than most might think, uploads count. And as they are being applied do they ever count.
Every KB, both up & down is counted, including even "heartbeat" communication that under legacy plans was tossed out.

By uploads, I'm not talking about using Carbonite or simular, nor am I speaking of the data used to upload pictures to Grandma. I'm talking about the data usec to request every webpage. Double that on accessing secure sites. I'm talking every click and nibble counts. Even the doggone modem software (in the MB range for Gen$4) updates count.
It is a large enough volume as to amost border on the deceptive, the way its being applied.

Then there is an issue of "Phantom" usage.
I've been around the pike. I just went to Gen4. I know computers, I have documented a usage of 4.5 MB when all and I mean all my equipment was in a "hard off" state. All of it, cell phone, tablets, TVs, the works.
There are many complaints, most of which are ... updates, spyware .. and so on.
If 4.5 can go Poof, then so can greater amounts.
The Gen4 system is really not ready for prime time. Its flawed, the Ads are deceptive. Its support is clueless.



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx

1 edit
reply to jap

said by gwalk:

So far though, the OP has failed to return to his thread.

Me no fail. When baby come to town me no attempt!

Hello all! Thank you muchly for tips and confirmations. Mighty helpful.

Account Status Update:
• Today is day 14 of 31 in our billing period and ~48 hours under throttle.
• Two speed tests off Comcast/WashDC server: today @3:32p = 127/991 + @9:50p = 125/922.
• Have consumed only 0.5 of our 20GB off-peak GBs.
• Router in use = Cisco/Linksys WRT-54G2 v.1.0
• House members = too scattered &/or blissful in weekend activities to get bent about slow internet or discuss solutions.

said by gwalk:

You may have been much better served [by] Exede12

Is this a satellite name used to refer to a Hughes plan? I would be very interested in downgrading speed in exchange for increased monthly data. The Gen4 plans are ridiculously skewed to sell tokens. Account/house owner is, as of today, in day #106 of her Gen4 contract.

said by diablo1892:

hughesnet status meter.msi is a tool built by hughesnet for HN9000, HN9200, HT1000, and HT1100 modem model's (as far as i know of)
networx_setup.exe is a tool that monitor's your internet bandwidth, anything that goes out or comes in, networx picks it up.

Thanks, diablo. Will look into both of these tools. Now super motivated to look into Networx, see where it runs, ect..

said by Melissa B:

networx has an option ... to warn, drop connection, or even shutdown particular computer after a specific amount of usage/time.
For a better understanding ..[of myriad stuff].. read this thread: »community.myhughesnet.com/hughes···ice_plan

Ohh, thanks for that feature mention. Now very motivated to look at Networx. Curious where it runs and how those functions are achieved on an ad hoc LAN. Will check the Hughes Forums thread too. May create an account there & ask if anyone has modified router firmware to pull Hughes account status values off the modem interface and plug it into LAN device logs. I'm a short-timer in this house so not likely I'll attempt to author/mod firmware myself.

said by Wyngs:

I set up a HOME page for each ..[user which displays a].. HN usage graph via iFrame

Good strategy and perhaps one I'll mimic. Challenge for me would be two of us have a lover frequently wandering onto the LAN with their laptops fondle pads so I'd need to assign that consumption and display it back to the associated housemate. Hmm.

Will be spending a chunk of tomorrow digesting these ideas and infos. Thanks again.

- - -
edit Nov.5 @1:18 ET: fixed misquote of diablo.

Melissa B

join:2013-03-12
Loogootee, IN
reply to jap

Hi JAP, Exede12 is one of the competitors plans. They used to be known as wildblue now called exceed. The biggest difference beteen the two is excede has a totally free period from 12am-5am. Hughes has alot of quirks at the moment such as home page issues, status meter problems, download drainage, speed, time out/DNS/failure to connect errors ect... as well as several billing errors.

Exede on the other hand (from neighbors point of as well as limited use of my parents account up the road) Exede doesn't have nearly as many quirks/errors (causing less upload data), you can almost always get into there customer care/email portal, and I dont believe usage from those pages or their speed test count against you. They have a forum here on DSLR : »WildBlue Satellite several recent members of the community have since left hughes an gone with excede and have reported being happy with the results nor am i hearing complaints from those i know.

Hughes status meter is having major issues at the moment, Id hold off on that. They tweaked the tokens an broke it SMH no official update yet but you can find the post here : »community.myhughesnet.com/hughes···e_broken For the networx my router is not compatible with the feature to monitor ALL LAN traffic, so I'm not sure exactly how that works (I just install on each and tally up)

"to warn, drop connection, or even shutdown particular computer after a specific amount of usage/time." you'd have to set it up for each individual device "Curious where it runs and how those functions are achieved on an ad hoc LAN."
Baffled a liitle on this statement if you mean where can the setting be found ? Find the Networx quick launch icon (it'll have three bars green red an yellow), right click go to settings an click on notification tab. From there it should be self explanatory.

Networx also comes with a deskband which can be set to give you an eyeview of individual (web page, download ect...) speed transfer. You'll have to enable this option as it is off by default. Right click on the taskbar, go to toolbars find the deskband to enable same process if you don't find it usefull Good Luck Jap there certainly is a lot to digest lol...


Melissa B

join:2013-03-12
Loogootee, IN
reply to jap

One more thing to set networx to monitor uploads as well as downloads you'll need to click on Quota INSTEAD of settings as it not shown there. I think that pretty well covers it if you hit a snag or need anything else do let us know



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
reply to Melissa B

said by Melissa B:

Hi JAP, Exede12 is one of the competitors plans. They used to be known as wildblue now called exceed.

Ah. Thank you for that. Not an option worth investigating due to owner being under contract with Hughes + she's neither technical nor entirely rational about decision making in this realm.

said by jap:

Curious where it runs and how those functions are achieved on an ad hoc LAN.

said by Melissa B:

Baffled a liitle on this statement

But then you went ahead and answered it correctly .

I reviewed Networx earlier and it's not feasible for me to install proprietary clients w/ admin privileges on all three user's Windows comps and grant peer access privileges to each. SoftPerfect doesn't offer non-Windows clients so - in addition to visiting devices - Networx wouldn't catch our in-house Android & iOS activity.

The only real way to monitor/control network activity is at the router or implement a network environment that everyone is required to log into. The latter would be excessive for a small household, the router solution is ideal but potentially rife with buggaboos to iron out as I'm here only through December. Hopefully I'll find a Hughes-specific firmware mod someone's already created.

Appreciate your additional info on the Hughes Bandwidth meter. Will test it with a critical eye and perhaps purch a router that it fully supports. Disappointing how messed-up Hughes appears to presently be.

Cheers.

A Tech

join:2008-11-10
reply to jap

While you search for the perfect solution you might entertain this easy hack. Add the system control center to you homepage on your browsers so that anytime you open the browser you have to close a tab with the SCC in it.



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

While that indeed may be a viable method to opening SCC, it doesn't address the issue of the SCC usage meter being calibrated in GBs, meaning there has to be 100 Mb in usage before a "segment" drops.

The problem here is to monitor and control the usage of 3 "non-techie" users that only about 500 Mb combined daily allowance per day per period. (Anytime Bytes)(Bonus Byte)

Without detailed network monitoring with folks will hit FAP very early every month.


laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas
reply to jap

Managing HN bandwidth is nontrivial for the most knowledgeable and cooperative of users. Unless the housemates understand all of the problems (and tricks to avoid them) and cooperate within the bandwidth allocation (no downloading of HD movies for example, and offloading of things like Windows and software updates to the FAP-free period), I would say there's simply no hope.


--
Gen4 Power Plan Jupiter HT1100 v3.0.0.30 Signal Strength Typical 125+



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx

said by laserfan:

Unless the housemates ... [comprehend & cooperate] ... I would say there's simply no hope.

And each user must place a similar value upon not getting FAP'd. As you suggest, it's as much a social as it is a technical conundrum.

As with so many things, our disparate little group appears to need a coupling of usage-to-cost. We've a sweet but anti-social basement dweller streaming junkie, a generous but impatient homeowner who just wants things to work and doesn't value tech lifestyles, and me who's got several systems to design/build while housebound for two months convalescing my dog from surgery. Not a good user mix for HN/Gen4 service.

The LAN implementations I'm contemplating are
• install off-the-shelf DD_WRT or Tomato router firmware
• white list devices by MAC, block all others
• log usage at the router
• manually tally device usage grouped by owner
• when owner's monthly data allocation is consumed throttle/shape their devices locally
• locally throttled user(s) can purch Hughes tokens to restore full speed
Or super simple alternative of
• locally perm-throttle LAN's downspeed to 2mbits so YouTube auto-adjusts to a low rez and non-scaling streams choke so much that users modify behavior.
The latter may provide best balance between tech effort, social tension, and connectivity pain. Mostly it liberates me from the unenviable role of accountant/enforcer.

Haven't yet had time to test the buggy Hughes Meter discussed above. Need to rule that out first. Also continue to hope against hope that a firmware/client.app combo exists out there somewhere and it's a matter of finding it.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas

I do wish you luck, though I can't imagine that anything you put into place will last a month after you leave, with the housemates you've described?

You're trying to build a local bandwidth-allocation system underneath Hughes' own bandwidth-allocation system, one that works automatically. I don't know of such a thing, and unless you are present to crack the technical whip, well see above.

I do suspect there are some business-oriented routers (or servers) that have throttling capabilities but I'd imagine them to be cost-prohibitive. And everything requires maintenance--who will maintain aftr you leave. Or maybe I misunderstood when you said you were there just a couple months.

--
Gen4 Power Plan Jupiter HT1100 v3.0.0.30 Signal Strength Typical 125+



hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4
reply to jap

You could do a lot of what you are looking to do with a pfsense router. Depending on your level of know how that could be a godsend or a frustrating experience.



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx

said by hitachi369:

You could do a lot of what you are looking to do with a pfsense router.

Now there's a good notion! Haven't thought of pfsense in years. Never ran one myself but seen them deployed and know the reputation.

Will look at the feature list and size-up the learning curve involved. I expect it will be a good exercise but not daunting. In the closet is an early Acer Nettop w/ a broken screen that needs something to do.

Thanks for posting.

janedeaux

join:2012-02-15
Yazoo City, MS
reply to gwalk

The refill cycles are based upon a 28-day month

My system refilled last night. Today, the system control center says:
"allowance resets in 29 days 5 hours. So I guess it is 30 days unless some lucky subscribers get 28. (wish it were me!)



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

1 edit

the 28 day remark came straight out of a copy/paste of linked Hughes Gen4 term & conditions.
You wouldn't think that Hughes would post inaccurate info do you


C0RR0SIVE

join:2012-06-19
Salvisa, KY

1 edit

Click for full size
Honestly... PFSense with SQUID running, and a few possibly custom made management tools installed will really be the only simple way to handle this... I had to do it as well... SQUID really does help you save a few hundred megs over the course of a month.

One downside if you go with PFSense on the HT1000/HT1100.... IPv6 breaks, badly, you can thank both sides for this IMO.