dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
2123

mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

mozerd

MVM

[TV] Whats the PROBLEM

Rogers sends a tech to fix TV signal level issue they believe I'm having because I am reporting that my sounds cut out and pixilation on some TV channels like 181 and in the 500's.

Tech arrives and does some work:
[1] He replacing an evolution EV01-5-U/P with a Antronix MVRA501B/AC;
the problem still persists so;
[2] The tech goes to the box outside my house and connects a cable from that box to my TV and sees that I'm having the exact same issue.
[3] The tech states the problem is in the box that feeds me and my neighbors
[4] The Tech calls another Tech who shows up later in the evening and he works on the outside box for 2 hours.
[5] That tech calls me and states the problem is at the Head End gives me a Case number to follow up with.
[6] The following day in the early evening I call Rogers and provide the case number to get a status update.
[7] Rogers put me on hold for 5 minutes and then come back with a report that their engineers have checked the Head End and found no issues.
[8] Rogers want to send another tech to my house because they see that my signal level is the problem.

Now that is what I call a real DELIMA --- who's on first? where's the expertise?
Anyone have any suggestions?
cepnot4me
join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0

cepnot4me

Member

It's a build issue. Let Rogers keep sending techs, tell each one that a line direct from the box still has the same issue. They will refer it to maintenance every time. My bet. Rogers is doing a QAM realignment (moving channels to different frequencies.) more specifically, HD channels. What I'm seeing is this identifying issues with specific frequencies that were otherwise unoticed before cause no one tuned them. This could be between the head end and the Node or its between the Node and SMT. Either way, it's a big job, and very hard to track down. The maintenance tech who referred to head end may have missed something, you need to keep on them. But be patient, they are looking for a needle in a haystack. The needle being a small break in hard cable or a faulty line extender or similar. The haystack being 50km radius around your house of infrastructure. It's not an easy fix, it's not easy to track down.
Rule of thumb. Boxes will pixelize. If it's a blip here and there, that's normal. If it is constant and unrelenting it Could be your box, your wiring, our network, or the broadcaster. A hiccup here and there will happen. If you can't watch an entire program cause it is so bad, then we have an issue.
Help them help you.
Document the channels it happens on.
The time of day it happens.
The weather outside when it happens.

I've had service calls where pixelizing happens only after 6, when it's cold or raining.

Trying to find a problem at noon when it is sunny out... near impossible.

But ya keep on them, they will find it.

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

elitefx

Member

said by cepnot4me:

It's a build issue. ........But ya keep on them, they will find it.

Nope. not a build issue. It's a Rogers firmware issue. Been repeatedly documented over in Rogers Wonderland.

Rogers has been aware of these issues for a long time. The audio issue is a huge problem. The pixelation issue not so much. There's 100's of posts about both in Wonderland also. It's not area specific but doesn't affect everybody. But it does happen a lot.

People are reverting to older hardware so they can watch TV.

Sad but true.
cepnot4me
join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0

cepnot4me

Member

Shouldn't be a firmware issue. If your running nextbox the firmware has been updated twice in the last 12 months. Not impossible but very unlikely 2 or 3 firmware versions present the same problem. When we diagnose an issue like that in Firmware, it's widespread. It becomes a top of the to do list to fix.
When you say wonderland. Should I assume your in York Region?

If so, I can assure you it's not your firmware. There are many customers in York Region without any type of similar issues. On next box RTN software or the old SARA software.

All next boxes should be running RTN 4.0 now. All next boxes were updated in the last 24 months in Ontario. (12-24 months pending on the region.)

And to boot I checked the known issues log. If it is an issue with the firmware, Rogers doesn't know about it. Which seems unlikely.

We have isolated individual issues with leafstv, CBC, RAPTV and OUTTV, they are broadcaster issues though.

As well, we have issues with next boxes rebooting just because at 2am. Cisco is looking into why. That may be firmware related.

My 10 years experience is telling me it's a network issue in our plant relative to your Node, SMT or Tap. Very possible it's wireless interference from a wireless device in your house. (video baby monitors are the worst culprits.) either or, it's likely physical not virtual.

I've found similar issues as yours at end of line taps, and planned reverse slope areas. Both need to be diagnosed by a maintenance tech. That's why I say. Keep calling us out. We will find where it is.

mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

mozerd to cepnot4me

MVM

to cepnot4me
said by cepnot4me:

My bet. Rogers is doing a QAM realignment (moving channels to different frequencies.) more specifically, HD channels.

Thanks for your input.
This whole thing started when my wife told me that we no longer were getting the Mystery Channel [276] .... so I called Rogers up to find out how come and I was told that the Mystery Channel was removed as of Nov 1 due to package changes they had made .... apparently I was informed of that via a Bulletin Board notice that appears on my statements .... I just do not read that part of my statement .... so its my bad. OK so a few days later I call Rogers back and request that the Mystery Channel be added back ... OK I now have the Mystery Channel and from that day forward I now have the Problem with unbearable sound cutouts on 181 and some of the 500 channels. So I suspect that your on the right track with Rogers moving channels to different frequencies.

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

elitefx to cepnot4me

Member

to cepnot4me
@cepnot4me

Thanks for your informed expertise. I was referring to Rogers Community Forums. Sadly, over there they perceive the problems as I described.

There's definitely a disconnect between what many are being told there about the NextBox issues and what someone like youself knows to be the real issues. Most of it there based on information distributed by Rogers Tech support.

Many are experiencing a huge problem with the latest Nextbox firmware update and nightly 2am resets/updates/reboots.
said by one example :

Wow, that's an amazing and ludicrous response from Rogers. As I posted elsewhere, I finally threw in the towel and returned my NB 3 yesterday. My old 8300HD PVR is working perfectly. I'm glad I held onto it after getting the NB.

cepnot4me
join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0

cepnot4me

Member

The 8300 is a great box. The best box we had for most of my career. But it runs SARA. Which was what we launched with on the day digital launched some 20 years ago. Nextbox is the product of cisco buying Scientific Atlanta. RTN is the child of that union. The 8642 wasn't bad, but Like any new OS, it's got its bugs. But the updates to fix them are frequent. Now the 9865pvr we just launched, that's shaping up to be a great box after all the issues pop up and get resolved during initial install.

The way I see it is nextbox vs SA8300 is like comparing windows XP to windows 8. XP always worked beautifully for me, no issues. But it's getting very old. Windows 8 has lots of issues, but they get fixed one by one over time and the OS has a lot of great potential for what consumers demand today that XP just can't do.

If you want the best bang for your buck, nextbox is the way. (I say nextbox 9865pvr) If you want tried tested and true.. SA8300. Unless you own a 6.0ghz cordless phone set. Then there is a 50% chance your phone will mess that box up so bad you can't do anything but swap it to nextbox, or get rid of your cordless set.

The key thing is getting light onto the issues. We've hammered engineering with evidence of the 2am reboot. It took a year of collecting data and proving beyond a doubt that it happens. But now it's well known and it is being assessed to be resolved. I'm hammering everyone with evidence of bad frequencies in different headends. When they finally agree that I'm right, they will move the channels to a frequency that isn't having issues. They just need examples, data, proof. And lots of it.

And just so it's out there.
The QAM change was started to bring the most popular HD channels down to a lower frequency. The goal is to have the most watched content on the lowest plant frequencies. The lower a frequency, the more stable and reliable it is. The design is to obtain a less pixelizing experience and better customer experience.

We just gotta find and eliminate each bug as we fine tune it now.

mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

mozerd

MVM

I reported that enabling the Mystery channel on my account my have contributed to the issue. Rogers network engineers did something ... I assume they changed the frequency being used for that channel .... Now I can report that the audio cutouts and pixilation has dramatically improved to the point it does not bother us as much. Still the occasional sound shift but at least we can understand what,s being said.
LeadFoot
join:2012-09-21

LeadFoot to cepnot4me

Member

to cepnot4me
I have a very old 8300HD working perfectly. A also have friends and family members with 8642s still running SARA, which also are running without issue. Is the 8642/SARA combination still available on a standard (not whole home) installation?

mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

2 edits

mozerd

MVM

[EDIT] BACK to SQUARE One --- sound cutout is back in full force --- so apparently they have a lot more tweaking to make. Its quite apparent that the network infrastructure for TV distribution is a hit/miss proposition ... very annoying. My Cable TV service was stable for the greater part of a year UNTILL Rogers made changes .... now I am not a happy TV customer and all because ONE CHANNEL is not performing reliably. Grrrrrrrr.
mozerd

mozerd

MVM

Back to the Head End for more tweaking -- 10 days to a final resolution ..... they are doing something cause this morning 181 is working the way I'd like it to work --- hopefully this sticks.
mozerd

mozerd

MVM

LOOKS like its sticking --- 24 hours of uninterrupted performance ... looks like they solved my issue by tweaking the Head End. Good work to the Rogers tech people and THANKS.
cepnot4me
join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0

cepnot4me to LeadFoot

Member

to LeadFoot
No. Rolling back to Sara on 8642/4642 boxes is no longer an option with the latest version of RTN. Now the only option for Sara is to get an older box.
cepnot4me

cepnot4me to mozerd

Member

to mozerd
Congratulations, you were the example that helped headend figure out the underlying issue on a QAM. My bet is the moved 181 to an entirely different frequency. When you can't find the needle... get a whole new haystack.

mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

mozerd

MVM

said by cepnot4me:

My bet is the moved 181 to an entirely different frequency. When you can't find the needle... get a whole new haystack.

That may well be the case --- I did not realize how complicated things can get when one 'stacks' content on a significant basis .... as a technologist I would hope that the science to manage this stacking and underlying processes [compression/decompression] is mature.

In any case I'm currently a happy camper.