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eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Distributel Cable

dog chewed through cables need help with crimping

So my new puppy chewed through about $200 of FLAT ethernet cables laying on the ground, I bought a crimper and some rj45 connectors and they work great on normal cables, but the flat cables have thinner wires so they don't want to play nice with my rj45 connectors. Can someone help or send a link to someone in the gta that sells connectors that would work better?



rogersmogers

@start.ca

Just buy new ones.


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14

I spent $200 just a month ago (ebay not retail) so I don't want to spent $400 for ethernet in total :/


Vomio

join:2008-04-01
reply to eeeaddict

I don't know if this one will work, but this is the type of place I'd look.
»www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en···ND/90357


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14

doesn't seem to be specifically for flat, plus the shipping is a bit high :/



ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
Premium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
reply to eeeaddict

Check with your local Sayal Electronics.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to eeeaddict

Perhaps this?

»www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=7···format=2



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to eeeaddict

Arent't flat ethernet cables crap to begin with? the whole twisted pair thing just tossed out the window?

Maybe for short runs?
--


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to eeeaddict

"But Professor Gadget, my dog ate through my ethernet cable and I wasn't able to upload the assignment that was due last night."


TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
reply to eeeaddict

$200 of ethernet cables??? Must be a hell of a lot of cable, or ridiculously overpriced cables.

$200 will easily buy you a 1000ft box of CAT5e and 100 connectors.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to eeeaddict

Infinite Cables in Markham should sell the right connectors for flat cables.

That said - two hundred bucks in cables? I just bought 2000' of Cat5e and 100 crimp on connectors, and that was 170...



DigitalXeron
There is a lack of sanity

join:2003-12-17
Hamilton, ON
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Arent't flat ethernet cables crap to begin with? the whole twisted pair thing just tossed out the window?

Maybe for short runs?

Correct, I often to my clients advise against flat cables regardless of how stylish they are because one will not be able to get peak performance. The twisted pairs introduce a calculated crosstalk amongst the conductors so that a transceiver at either end could remove the noise from said crosstalk, flat cables do not have this.

Secondly, flat cables can't be effectively crimped by hand, one can attempt to do so but ultimately they require injecting plastic or glue into the connector cavity after terminating because there's nothing really for the 8P8C (often mislabelled "RJ45") to grab onto other than the conductors and sooner or later the conductors are going to be yanked out or damaged without the injection. This is why the majority of flat cables are machine-terminated and have the plastic molding.

Thirdly, flat cables are much more susceptible to damage and fatigue. I have seen flat cables have the plastic jacket become dry and brittle and eventually the dry jacket rubbing against the conductors (wires) creates undue wear and tear like a dull wire cutter. In line with this, they don't have as good a bend radius as the round counterparts since they become kinked easier.

But getting back to the original question:
I would first of all address the cable location if your puppy can gain access — run the cable up and near the ceiling (can be done by nailing velcro ties to an out-of-reach run, say onto the back of a desk or up a wall and along the corner of a ceiling) Cables on the floor in any animal accessible location is a bad idea as you'll be replacing them all the time. At that point you can re-address the cabling.
--
--Kradorex Xeron
[an error occurred while processing this signature]

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON

Ill join the chorus here and day dump the flat cables. They suck.



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to TheMG

said by TheMG:

$200 will easily buy you a 1000ft box of CAT5e and 100 connectors.

Throw in a decent crimper too.

Flat cables are for shit.

Mike
--
I've picked on Cogeco long enough. Who's next? Any volunteers?

Nitra

join:2011-09-15
Montreal
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

+1, stay away from flat cables, they are complete shit.

Also, $200 for cables? Were they gas filled Monster cables from BestBuy?
Or maybe a Denon Link Cable...
»www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedic···duct_top


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Distributel Cable

1 edit
reply to GreenEnvy22

to everyone hating on flat cables what exactly do I replace them with then? I got flat since the old cables stuck out like a sore thumb, these new ones were mostly on baseboards so they were practically invisible, plus I got 100MBPS (yes bytes) transfer speeds so fine for me



TDog13

@205.203.130.x

My dog ate my cable....LMAO, you can't make this stuff up
Have your puppy fix it



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to eeeaddict

When people thing of flat cable, typically they think of old "silver-satin" un-twisted cable - which is prone to noise and crosstalk... And totally unsuitable for use with Ethernet.

They do make "flat" UTP (unshielded twisted pair) - cable; which given the price you paid, was probably what you had, and would be fine to use, other then the price...

Cat 5e is less then a 1/4" in size - if you get white cable, it'll blend in fine to baseboards, as well, for a fraction the price of the flat cable. Can also paint it to match walls or trim, if it bothers you that much.

I'm not hating on the flat cable, assuming it's the right stuff - I'm hating on the price...


camelot

join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to eeeaddict

I use a smaller version of this:

»www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=1···format=2

If the room is carpeted, you can usually sneak standard ethernet cable between the baseboard and carpet- tucking it underneath.


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to eeeaddict

Flat cable is usually designed to run under carpets. As in crossing a room.


LastDon

join:2002-08-13
reply to eeeaddict

»www.vpi.us/cable-sf.html

These are flat UTP

- even my old asus modem came with a flat rj45 no issues whatsoever with it.



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:20
reply to eeeaddict

For long runs, you need twisted pair (aka UTP). If the wires inside aren't twisted, noise will cause the signals to degrade very badly. Lots of flat cables are twisted, and assuming UTP, flat Ethernet is fine. Still better to go with the standard stuff though, as you are finding.

The problem you are running into is more about the connectors, not the crimper. The wire inside your flat cable is probably stranded and crimping to stranded is harder than crimping to solid conductor. On top of that the gauge is probably a little smaller (bigger gauge number means smaller diameter wire).

The advice so far is pretty good, but if you can link to specs of the wire you bought, we could be a lot more specific.
--
electronicsguru.ca


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14

thanks teddy, the awg was wayy higher than standard ethernet so crimping wasn't working out. I had use fat cable instead which kind of stands out now though hopefully will be faster


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Teddy Boom

said by Teddy Boom:

The wire inside your flat cable is probably stranded and crimping to stranded is harder than crimping to solid conductor.

Not that much harder. You just need a different type of connector.

Crimp connectors for stranded cable have straight "vampire tap" teeth that simply sink through the insulation to make contact with the wires while solid wire crimps have offset teeth that displace insulation on the conductor sides to wedge themselves against the wire.

Using the right connector type for the cable being used makes things much simpler. If you mismatch types, your life may become miserable: vampire taps cannot sink through solid wire so they only make superficial contact with it and insulation displacement on stranded wire may simply squeeze the wire with strands stacking together and slipping right by the teeth without touching them.

As for flat cables and twisted pairs, as LazMan said, there are flat twisted pair cables. The pairs are twisted together and then laid down side by side so the cable only needs to be as thick as individual wire pairs and the coating layer to hold them together. Properly made, those should perform about as good as regular cables. A simple way to reduce crosstalk due to the same pairs always being next to each other is to simply increase the distance between pairs by about one wire's width and continue using the usual different twist rates for each pair.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to eeeaddict

said by eeeaddict:

I had use fat cable instead which kind of stands out now though hopefully will be faster

If you were getting ~100MBps as you said you were, you were already going as fast as 1Gbps Ethernet can theoretically go.

As LazMan said, there is such a thing as twisted flat cables. The twisted pairs are simply laid down side by side instead of lumped together. Since your puppy chewed through one of your cables, you can cut it open there and see exactly how the cable is laid out internally. For $200 eBay price, I would expect it to be proper twisted flat wiring.

Flat twisted pair cables do exist and they do work. I'm using a $14 10' flat HDMI 1.4 cable with my LCD right now.


DigitalXeron
There is a lack of sanity

join:2003-12-17
Hamilton, ON
reply to eeeaddict

said by eeeaddict:

to everyone hating on flat cables what exactly do I replace them with then? I got flat since the old cables stuck out like a sore thumb, these new ones were mostly on baseboards so they were practically invisible, plus I got 100MBPS (yes bytes) transfer speeds so fine for me

If you want the flat cables, okay, however:

Running cables along a baseboard unprotected is where you most likely are experiencing issues with your puppy. If you want to run cables that low with animals around, you should use an appropriate cable management solution that encases the cable in hardened conduit. If you simply replace what you currently have in place, your cable will end up damaged again. Any conduit that you may run will end up being larger than the flat cable. Some conduit solutions can blend into your wall and look like a beading of trim if installed correctly.

The thing with having animals with even minimal access to anything is that you must be willing to make concessions for the sake of practicality or you will be looking at repeated expenses or potentially your puppy may gain access to a power cable and end up severely injured.

said by AsherN:

Flat cable is usually designed to run under carpets. As in crossing a room.

Running cable where it may be subject to foot traffic is a bad idea as eventually that cable is going to experience damage over time from the constant pinching. That's why cable ramps exist in a lot of scenarios where cables must pass through a traffic area. In my experience, there are a lot of "Designed for", but few "Practical for".
--
--Kradorex Xeron
[an error occurred while processing this signature]

eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Distributel Cable

I just ended up running some "normal" cables though the flat cables were stuck to the wall using double sided tape. the only reason the dog got at them was that I was waiting for a longer cable to replace a shorter one so I didn't tape down the entire length


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to DigitalXeron

said by DigitalXeron:

said by eeeaddict:

to everyone hating on flat cables what exactly do I replace them with then? I got flat since the old cables stuck out like a sore thumb, these new ones were mostly on baseboards so they were practically invisible, plus I got 100MBPS (yes bytes) transfer speeds so fine for me

If you want the flat cables, okay, however:

Running cables along a baseboard unprotected is where you most likely are experiencing issues with your puppy. If you want to run cables that low with animals around, you should use an appropriate cable management solution that encases the cable in hardened conduit. If you simply replace what you currently have in place, your cable will end up damaged again. Any conduit that you may run will end up being larger than the flat cable. Some conduit solutions can blend into your wall and look like a beading of trim if installed correctly.

The thing with having animals with even minimal access to anything is that you must be willing to make concessions for the sake of practicality or you will be looking at repeated expenses or potentially your puppy may gain access to a power cable and end up severely injured.

said by AsherN:

Flat cable is usually designed to run under carpets. As in crossing a room.

Running cable where it may be subject to foot traffic is a bad idea as eventually that cable is going to experience damage over time from the constant pinching. That's why cable ramps exist in a lot of scenarios where cables must pass through a traffic area. In my experience, there are a lot of "Designed for", but few "Practical for".

I've run a lot of flat cables, flat twinax, back in the day. Always under carpet where it was not practical to run jiffy poles. The cable is protected by the carpet. Note the UNDER the carpet statement.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

Generally a bad idea; and in violation of code...



ATSC

@teksavvy.com
reply to eeeaddict

A dog is the least of your concerns as a cable chewer. Mice did a number on my in-wall cat5 network that I painstakingly fished through. Took me a while to realize what that issue was. Call me slow but have you ever caught a mouse with your bare hands? Were you wearing gloves? Hope so.

On another handy note: Do not carry around your Cat5x crimper in your back pocket without protecting the crimper with a plastic sleeve of some sort. I was re doing a pile of cable for myself and neighbours, but I constantly made bad cables. After troubleshooting everything but the crimp tool, I held a magnifying glass to the crimp port on the tool. Noticed a pile of minute, microscopic fussy threads all over the crimper blades. I had carried the tool around in my back pocket of my jeans unprotected between crimps, only to have the second and many beyond that test bad. Blew in some dustoff and all was good. Now my crimper lives in a protective sleeve 24/7 when not actually doing a crimp, of course.