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rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

3 edits

1 recommendation

reply to FirebirdTN

Re: [Caps] Comcast New 300GB Monthly Limit And Overage Charges

I really think im the norm. Not here on dslr. While you disagree and i understand your position. It doesnt change my position. Look im perfectly capable of streaming hd but i stream sd because im simply not concerned if its hd or not. I dont know your position but i know mine. Your a cord cutter and i am not. Im at the end of the line as far as making changes. I want a capped internet service because im willing to deal with it and you dont want it. Again i really think my thinking covers the majority of comcasts customers thinking. Bottom line is i feel more comfortable knowing comcast charges customers that use high bandwidth more than i who use the bandwidth actually considering what metered bandwidth cost. Hitting you high use users tho is honestly making me feel all warm and cozy. Maybe i would feel different if sometime in my lifetime i actually use the 300 cap but since that probably wont happen i can only say how i feel. And that feeling is about god dam time. Im dam tired of these rate increases improving infrastructure when im fine with what i have. Let the dam users that use the bandwidth pay for it.


Aozora

join:2008-11-28
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by rody_44:

I really think im the norm. Not here on dslr. While you disagree and i understand your position. It doesnt change my position. Look im perfectly capable of streaming hd but i stream sd because im simply not concerned if its hd or not. I dont know your position but i know mine. Your a cord cutter and i am not. Im at the end of the line as far as making changes. I want a capped internet service because im willing to deal with it and you dont want it. Again i really think my thinking covers the majority of comcasts customers thinking. Bottom line is i feel more comfortable knowing comcast charges customers that use high bandwidth more than i who use the bandwidth actually considering what metered bandwidth cost. Hitting you high use users tho is honestly making me feel all warm and cozy. Maybe i would feel different if sometime in my lifetime i actually use the 300 cap but since that probably wont happen i can only say how i feel. And that feeling is about god dam time. Im dam tired of these rate increases improving infrastructure when im fine with what i have. Let the dam users that use the bandwidth pay for it.

The funny thing is TV rates keep increasing with decrease usage. Just letting you know your HSI rates will keep increasing regardless of caps or not. You got played hard it's funny. You bought into their bullshit so hard it's like you can't think.

Did they say your TV rates were going to decrease last year despite TV watching going down? LMFAO. I thought so. I just laughed so hard at your logic I have no clue how to convey that in my post.

I do know what Comcast is thinking and this song will help you realize what Comcast is thinking:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTEfInwgxVs


They are laughing so hard to the bank.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

4 edits
Actually im happy with my tv rates. Internet was 32 a month ten years ago and now its 52. Thats what im unhappy about. If tv went up as much as internet in the last ten years we would be paying 250 a month for it. To be honest tho im on the 99 dollar triple play. I feel tv is a much better value than internet. Even at the 52 price point i might drop internet. Not video tho. 40 to 45 is really all i feel comfortable paying for internet. XFINITY Internet customers’ median monthly data usage is 17 GB per month. (found on there help forums) They are not going after me with average use that low. They are going after high use customers. I wont drop it for probably up to 54 or so and than they would be like a hot potato.


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
reply to Aozora
I'm sorry, but you make little sense.

Rody simply said: "Let the damn users that use the bandwidth pay for it."


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by Johkal:

I'm sorry, but you make little sense.

Rody simply said: "Let the damn users that use the bandwidth pay for it."

Then let's do away with flat rate billing. An initial $50 connect fee to set up the Internet; $10 per GB used thereafter.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
Expand on what the $50 connect fee includes before the usage kicks in.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by Johkal:

Expand on what the $50 connect fee includes before the usage kicks in.

It the install fee I paid to get my business class service connected is typical, it means that the installer will set the "modem" on your equipment shelf, connect a coax patch cable (that I supplied), ignore the out of spec signal levels, and quickly leave.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
Still makes no sense. Who is referring to a business install fee? What? Huh?


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by Johkal:

Still makes no sense. Who is referring to a business install fee? What? Huh?

My assumption was that a "connect" fee would be essentially the same as an "install" fee since essentially an installer connects you to the Internet service.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Johkal
said by Johkal:

Expand on what the $50 connect fee includes before the usage kicks in.

It is a one time setup fee when an account is first opened; not a recurring fee.

BTW, I am not seriously proposing that. But it stands to bring in more revenue than the current flat rate billing because $10 per GB is $50 for every 0.1 GB moved (minimum; assumes you incur the charge on the first byte moved). Since the lowest usage will be on the order of 5 GB per month, the revenue stream is $50 per month, minimum.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Johkal
Cool Cat
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:10
I was just curious where you were going with that.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to NormanS
Thats kind of the way most utilities are set up. Most have a minimum set up that you get charged even if you dont use it. I Think my electric company calls it a customer charge if i dont use over the minimum amount of electricity.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by rody_44:

Thats kind of the way most utilities are set up. Most have a minimum set up that you get charged even if you dont use it. I Think my electric company calls it a customer charge if i dont use over the minimum amount of electricity.

Nevertheless, bits are not precious commodities like water and watts. The cost of production (watts), or processing (potable water) has not gone down over time, as has the cost of moving bits; if anything, those costs have risen.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
The cost of the bits is quite small, but building the plant capacity is a huge expense.
so there is a base cost, before any traffic is moved, and the marketing works best when a chunk of traffic is wrapped into the base cost.
It's like leasing a car, the payment is the same each month if you drive 1 mile or 300, above 300 they charge more because you exceed the amount calculated in the lease cost.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by tshirt:

The cost of the bits is quite small, but building the plant capacity is a huge expense.

Ah, I see. They rebuild the plant every year ...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
No, like the car it takes multiple years to payoff, and the longer the finace term the greater percentage goes to interest, in addition there are operating expenses, repairs, maintaince, upgrades (turbo charger so you can drive faster and maybe pass that 300 mile mark sooner) Like car salesman, they aren't going to stop you from adding on extras, which increase THEIR bottom line.


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by tshirt:

The cost of the bits is quite small, but building the plant capacity is a huge expense.

Ah, I see. They rebuild the plant every year ...

They maintain the plant continuously.

It costs money to have a fleet of service vehicles, a staff of techs on payroll, a spare pool of equipment and materials to keep service operational, etc.

Capacity augmentation is also not a straight linear cost model. Capacity that is added as part of the standard planned technology refresh cycle is the most cost effective capacity that can be added to the system. Any capacity adds in the interim typically require non-strategic deployment of additional current-gen technology, usually at a significantly higher expense. That's what drives companies to try and force capacity growth to conform to planned upgrades as part of normal infrastructure refresh cycles.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by espaeth:

They maintain the plant continuously.

It costs money to have a fleet of service vehicles, a staff of techs on payroll, a spare pool of equipment and materials to keep service operational, etc.

Maintenance is not more expensive for moving more bits. Whether a user moves 3 GB, 30 GB, or 300 GB, the cost of maintenance is the same.

Capacity augmentation is also not a straight linear cost model. Capacity that is added as part of the standard planned technology refresh cycle is the most cost effective capacity that can be added to the system. Any capacity adds in the interim typically require non-strategic deployment of additional current-gen technology, usually at a significantly higher expense. That's what drives companies to try and force capacity growth to conform to planned upgrades as part of normal infrastructure refresh cycles.

Okay, so it is about congested nodes after all? Even the Comcast admitted to doubters that it isn't?

U.S. corporations predicate pricing on the basis of, "What the traffic will bear". I have first hand experience of that from work in manufacturing, retail, and language study. Comcast isn't giving the store away with 33 1/3% price breaks through promotions.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
said by NormanS:

Maintenance is not more expensive for moving more bits. Whether a user moves 3 GB, 30 GB, or 300 GB, the cost of maintenance is the same.

Yes and no.. it comes down to thresholding and upgrades.

said by NormanS:

Okay, so it is about congested nodes after all? Even the Comcast admitted to doubters that it isn't?

No, it's about capacity management.

Intermittent congestion on shared infrastructure can only be addressed through fairness algorithms like what Comcast has implemented. It's the same thing as highway ramp meters that try to increase efficiency of a shared resource during peak demand times.

Just like with highways, however, at a certain point you reach a level of volume where you have no choice but to add a lane. In the broadband world, that's what relates usage back to the business model that funds the expansion of that capacity.

said by NormanS:

Comcast isn't giving the store away with 33 1/3% price breaks through promotions.

Comcast's net profit margin is about 10%, so it's not like they're printing cash with their current pricing models either.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
reply to NormanS
Jesus christ norman, you jinxed us as i just got the paper and we have a 18 percent increase in water rates. WTF coupled with our electric infrastructure improvement tax (wtf is that) and a above the state approved local tax increase comcast better be dropping there rates soon. its not like i really expect to see anyone lowering rates but as you can see even something as simple as water is metered billing with a certain amount included and extra extra.

Water Rate Increase - In Town - 18%

A. Minimum Monthly Charges

Meter Size


Allowance


Properties in

Inches


Gallons


the Borough

5/8 and 3/4
3,000

$13.31
1 6,667

$29.57
1 1/4 10,000 $44.37
1 1/2 13,333 $59.15
2 16,667 $73.94
2 1/2 21,667 $91.78
3 26,667 $109.61
4 33,333 $133.40

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

4 edits
reply to NormanS
And heres how the electric works.
Residential All Electric (Electric Heat)
$14.00 Customer service fee
14.94¢ per KWH for the first 600 KWH
12.62¢ per KWH for the next 1,000 KWH
11.84¢ per KWH for All additional KWH

This is the kind of metered billing that ide like to see. I know it wont be the same billing as electric and water but you get the idea. Honestly since the average comcast user uses 17.4 GB the cap should be somewhere in the 20 GB range and be priced up from there. I know that wouldnt fly tho so im fine with the 300 as a starting point. You have to start somewhere. Notice that with the water even tho water is cheap as shit if you put in a bigger pipe its gonna cost you more than a person with a smaller pipe. Also note the homeowner pays and decides what size pipe he wants. Also note that water went up 18 percent this year and water per say per gallon isnt anymore this year than last. Electric and water service is both borough owned and operated. Them trucks aint cheap to operate. Ide like to see something in the line of a 30 or 35 dollar customer service fee (the cheaper the better) and a ten dollar fee for the first 20GB and price it out from there. The days of them just piling rate increase over rate increase are over. Its stop here and do something different or lose me as a customer.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
We have no boroughs here. Very few publicly owned utilities (City of Palo Alto, City of Sacramento). Public utilities are regulated by the State of California. Surely the shareholders of Comcast are chomping at the bit to have the state set their rates.

Comcast already has their "tubes" in place; it's been twenty-three years since the digital-ready plant was deployed; by Pacific Bell (before SBC bought The Pacific Telesis Group). SBC sold that plant to AT&T; which then spun off AT&T Broadband for sale to Comcast.

I am pretty certain I understand U.S. Corporatism (Capitalism). Since you are a pretty good spinner, spin me an explanation for charging $4 a pop more for a subtitled video than for a dubbed video. When you are able to do that reasonably, I will reconsider my presumption that U.S. business levies cost plus charges for products and services. Until then, my presumption that Internet providers charge what the traffic will bear stands.

And leave Jesus Christ out of it; He isn't setting fees for the ISPs.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

4 edits
Are you talking about the 4 dollars i pay for amazon videos. I only rent videos from amazon. Not sure at all what that has to do with this conversation. My water has been in for fifty years, Electric to. Doesnt mean they dont need rate increases. Not sure why you think borough or township utility companies are not regulated by the state because they are. The only thing difference is they operate as a non profit and are owned by the town. While im willing to accept rate increase as far as comcast is concerned im at the end of accepting any more. My wife just subscribed to amazon plus, she says we will save on video rentals with that over just renting them from amazon. Have not used it yet to know for sure tho.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

Comcast already has their "tubes" in place; it's been twenty-three years since the digital-ready plant was deployed; by Pacific Bell (before SBC bought The Pacific Telesis Group). SBC sold that plant to AT&T; which then spun off AT&T Broadband for sale to Comcast.

And do you suppose that they PacBell> SBC>AT&T just passed it along at cost...or might Comcast paid a large premium for the plant? and paid a high interest rate or sold more stock to pay for it? and maintained, upgraded or replaced equipment over numerous cycles?
I really have no idea about the pricing scheme, it's possible that that's the way the regional licensing works, but given PPV video is an optional service, it's well away from limited basic video or any "HSI AS AN utility" argument.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to rody_44
said by rody_44:

Are you talking about the 4 dollars i pay for amazon videos.

Nope. Physical media.

Not sure at all what that has to do with this conversation.

Something about the Pollyannaish notion that U.S. corps. only base fees on cost plus a little extra for the company. The reference you are missing is that while both subtitled (subbed) and English voice (dubbed) required the cost of translators, they didn't each have identical production costs. Guess which would have had a lower cost, and which actually had a lower price. The answer is counterintuitive. It, along with other evidence, supports my contention that U.S. corporations, absent some natural, or artificial mode of restraint, will charge "What the traffic will bear".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

And do you suppose that they PacBell> SBC>AT&T just passed it along at cost...or might Comcast paid a large premium for the plant?

I presume SBC sold it at most at cost, to be rid of it. Ed Whitacre was an old school telco copperhead. AT&T, being a separate corporation at the time was still trying to "find its center", more than a decade after divesting its interests in The Pacific Telesis Group and SBC (nee Southwestern Bell Telephone).

Then AT&T, unable to reach an accord with the local franchise authorities, spun off their HSI unit as, "AT&T Broadband Internet" (ATTBI). Given that this helped to put AT&T into a financial tight sot, which made them ripe for a buyout (SBC snapped them up at a bargain price!) I can only assume that each sale (SBC>AT&T, then AT&T>Comcast) was, at most, at cost.

... and paid a high interest rate or sold more stock to pay for it? and maintained, upgraded or replaced equipment over numerous cycles?

Purchase would likely have been a bargain, considering that an HFC was Ed Whitacre's unwanted step-child. I presume the Comcast CAPEX required to acquire, and complete, the plant was less than a full replacement of the old Gill/TCI plant; especially considering the corners cut by the Comcast contractors in completing the ATTBI plant (I posted an old thread about how those contractors left a downed cable drop in my mother's back yard. Comcast never did make good on that hazard).

I really have no idea about the pricing scheme, it's possible that that's the way the regional licensing works, but given PPV video is an optional service, it's well away from limited basic video or any "HSI AS AN utility" argument.

Except I was not referring to PPV. Just an example of U.S. corporate pricing when there is no natural, or artificial restraint against, "What the traffic will bear").
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

4 edits
I dont have any problem with regulating it. As far as the sbc and att broadband none of that is applicable around here. To tell the truth Bill Gates paid the initial expense to upgrade both comcasts and attbs plant. It was in the form of a loan tho which was paid back later. He picked three cable companies to lend the money to. Comcast was actually number 5 in size at the time. The three companies partnered and formed @home. At which time the bidding wars started and cable companies were selling for upward of three thousand dollars for every house passed without regard of whether they were upgraded or not. Heres a link from when they purchased mine in 2000. At the time they had 8 million customers and purchased our system which gave them another 1.1 million customers. It cost them 700 million to upgrade us. »corporate.comcast.com/news-infor···campaign
To make a long story short cable company value back then wasnt measured by if plant was upgraded or not. They replaced every bit of cable and it came out to 23,000 miles of it. Most of the systems were the same way if you want to do a little research. Most of the cable companies sold as a direct result of THEM not having the money to do the needed upgrades. Now att was a story of its own and that was upgraded but im sure they also did the upgrades. Both attb and comcast didnt even start upgrades till around 1990.

Of course back then they could get 23,000 miles for 700 million. They wont get that now and back when they spent that 700 million that was for two nodes to a headend. Article is dated 2000 even tho they started in 1993. It took them 7 years to complete everything and actually announce completion. Now who built what?

My options consist of 52 a month comcast, 75 a month fios and 3g , 4g. The only thing im proposing is hold the dam line and stop upgrading and charging everybody across the board for said upgrades. Metered billing is a start. Comcast is going to make the 10 percent no matter what they do and i understand that. If i had the slowsky dsl option like you i wouldnt care as i could go to that. But i dont. Heres a copy and paste about my system from dsl reports. notice it was upgraded in 1990 to only have to be redone when comcast took over. This gives you a example of the time frames of these upgrades.

mbernste
Boosted
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-30
Piscataway, NJ


Comcast generally buys antiquated systems. Suburban Cablevision's plant, though rebuilt in 1990, was too old to support an HFC infrastructure. In 1996, Comcast had to rewire the whole system (and that adds up to a lot of wire) to support a system that can have digital cable and high speed Internet.
--
Comcast BBQ
actions · [Send instant message] · 2004-Nov-7 7:33 pm · (locked


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to espaeth
said by espaeth:

Comcast's net profit margin is about 10%

 
Is that the profit margin for the HSI service, the profit margin for the cable TV service, or the overall profit margin?


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
said by camper:

Is that the profit margin for the HSI service, the profit margin for the cable TV service, or the overall profit margin?

It's overall profit margin.


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by espaeth:

It's overall profit margin.

 

OK, so you are proffering the overall profit margin to justify your assertions on the HSI expenditures.

I'm sure you realize that is not appropriate.

The HSI accounting information needs to be broken out separately to justify the assertions you make.