Joe6P
join:2013-11-20
California |
to Robert Myers
Re: [Speed] Netflix Comcast does not support HD streamingIs there any ATT customers complaining from the HD/Netflix issue here?
No answer sounds like good news for me to switch to ATT.
I just asked my neighbor who uses ATT to check it out for me tonight. unfortunately I had to explain it to him. apparently many customers can't tell the difference...ISP providers must love them...
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to RLM
quote:
I don't see in the window where the look next to "Streaming HTTP" selection is?
I must be blind.
I just see the graphs.
Make sure you're playing it in 720p HD |
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to Joe6P
said by Joe6P:Is there any ATT customers complaining from the HD/Netflix issue here?
No answer sounds like good news for me to switch to ATT.
I just asked my neighbor who uses ATT to check it out for me tonight. unfortunately I had to explain it to him. apparently many customers can't tell the difference...ISP providers must love them... The Comcast forum is not the best place asking about AT&T issues. That said a Google search turns up the following: » forums.att.com/t5/Applic ··· Ai5GhuoM» forums.att.com/t5/Featur ··· /2664161» forums.att.com/t5/Featur ··· AzpGhuoM» forums.att.com/t5/Featur ··· A5pGhuoM» www.google.com/search?q= ··· i&rls=enSo in other words, YMMV and issues are not unique to any specific ISP |
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Joe6P
join:2013-11-20
California
1 edit |
Joe6P
Member
2013-Nov-21 10:03 pm
Thank you so much for the search!
In other words it is a Netflix issue.
I suppose they must be working at resolving it discretely if they want to stay in business and before they get slapped by a class action lawsuit for advertising and selling something they can't deliver... |
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176.9 10.6
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to RLM
said by RLM :After speaking to one of the Oppo Network Engineers I received some disturbing information relative to this issue. Basically the best one can expect from any Comcast download performance package on Netflix is about 2.5 Mbps. Attached is the Netflix Oct prime time bandwidth reports.
So after a week of messing around with this is the fact is that I can never get consistent HD streaming via Netflix with Comcast. This makes no sense to me. How can Netflix sell HD streaming when in fact they never deliver it.
So what is one to do. Comcast is not delivering with any of their internet packages a true HD streaming speed, and Netflix has provisions their bandwidth.
Comments?
Back to my question, how does one get a consistent HD streaming service.
Based on this Comcast customers should all back their services down to the 6Mbps package.
That's more than enough to do 99% of internet work. So you have to wonder what the graph means. First it is an average - so some titles are not HD or Super HD so the bit rate will be slower. Second many of the Netflix streaming devices can't support 1080P HD or Super HD and are limited to 720P (or if driving an 720P TV limit the stream to 720P) So again what does it mean - only Netflix really knows. They know how many people are watching non HD/Super HD streams and type of devices connecting. All the ISPs (with the possible exception of Google) seem low to me. Why would Cox (an Open Connect partner) only get 2.56 kbps. With more disclosure the Netflix numbers might make more sense. |
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to Joe6P
I think they would rather publicly imply that AT&T|Verizon|TimeWarner|Comcast, etc is at fault. They want to name and shame ISPs that don't provide them free hosting, space, power and peering. In other words if an ISP does not agree to their OpenConnect platform, they tend to have Netflix performance issues for their customers.
That said, most have good experience and these issues appear more transient... Perhaps that is part of the strategy... |
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Joe6P
join:2013-11-20
California |
Joe6P
Member
2013-Nov-22 11:30 am
For what it's worth, I receive the following email from Netflix with the error code for me to pass it on to Comcast concerning the HD streaming issue.
What puzzles me is why don't they talk to each other directly???
Dear ,
Error:
SLW32-1VUEWMDR9PNVW83RY26G6UY84R
**Please note that this email address is not actively monitored by Netflix staff and any replies will not be answered.
Check out our Help Center if you have any more questions.
- Your Friends at Netflix |
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ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA
1 edit |
to Joe6P
said by Joe6P:I'm glad I found this thread.
I'm having the exact same problem with Netflix/Comcast HD steaming.
I'm on the west coast. HD deteriorates on weekdays from 6PM to midnight. It's worse on weekends.
My internet download speed is a whopping 57Mbits/s, Same here. HD often doesn't work at night even when I get 58 Mbps on Comcast's speed test and download at 7 MB/s in Steam (not at the same time I try Netflix). I suspect that RLM's problem is out of his control. Netflix or Comcast just can't handle the traffic. |
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I have been somewhat following this thread about Netflix HD and Comcast so tried it on my Vizio smart TV. I assume 3D is HD.
I watched two 3D movies on Netflix this afternoon and just finished watching another one tonight without a flicker on any of them. Wireless by the way.
I don't worry about numbers as long as it's working like it should.
My only complaint is, there sure isn't much of a choice yet.
My Grandkids liked it because it has a lot of kiddie stuff listed.
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 AlphaOneI see
Premium Member
join:2004-02-21 |
to RLM
Never trust the Linksys EA6500 speedtest. I have one right now.
It's never accurate even after the firmware upgrade.
It's a very good router, fast, always good connection. For some reason, I can't access the modem through it. I regret getting it.
It does have a lot of bells and whistles though, that's the part I like about it.
But it's internal speedtest? fuggetaboutit! |
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 RLM
@comcast.net |
RLM to Joe6P
Anon
2013-Nov-28 1:50 pm
to Joe6P
Update Netflix Comcast does not support HD streamingSo since the last post I have completely investigated the issue including two visits from Comcast. I must say that Comcast support on the last visit was exceptional.
So Comcast verified that after 4 pm Netflix streaming speeds are 480p, no HD. We ran Ethernet Long cable from the Modem to the PC, measuring 28 Mbps download, and then ran the Ethernet long cable directly to the streamer (Oppo 103D) and verified the Netflix picture at 480SD. The Comcast service tech ran the coax cable connection from the service source to the modem bypassing my infrastructure and measured 28 Mbps download speeds, but no Netflix HD streaming. He escalated it to his network engineers and will return next week to try and resolve.
It appears from everything I see that this is a Netflix problem that they will not admit to.
Comcast says they provide download speeds that should be more than enough by a large amount to stream HD.
Personally I think it is Netflix.
FYI, it is interesting that other folks I know who stream using devices like Roku say that they also noticed about two ago that they stopped streaming in HD. This is about the time I started my service with Comcast.
I would love to find out for curiosity sake what is going on here. I doubt it will be fixed without someone making adjustments that we will probably ever know about.
Thanks |
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I've been seeing lower netflix streaming speeds over comcast too, but never as extreme as you. (I still get 1080p, but at a lower quality.) I also get hangs on the roku that require backing out of the movie and starting it up again from the "resume playing" link. That appears to cause a different server to be selected.
My guess, is that with all the kids home from college, the interconnects between comcast and netflix are overloaded. |
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to Robert Myers
Re: [Speed] Netflix Comcast does not support HD streamingDo those of you who have problems with Netflix streaming have the same problems with other HD streaming services such as Amazon Prime, HBO Go, Hulu, etc., at the same time Netflix gives problems?
If not, it's evidence that the problem is probably with Netflix. |
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to Robert Myers
Ok, so I am new poster and found this forum from a google search.
About two or three weeks ago I started to experience poor quality streams from Netflix. I have Comcast (have had them since 2001 non stop since when they were att broadband). I have the 25 mbs service (just upgraded to the 50 on Friday- but had not taken place yet, not sure why - need to call billing) which is plenty fast for HD streaming.
I have had netflix streaming for two years or more. I have never had issues prior to two weeks ago. NEVER.
I was on a customer service Chat, and with Comcast customer service tonight for three hours - with no different outcome...on a Saturday night during a holiday break...not too happy.
Netflix blames Comcast, Comcast blames Netflix...and so on.
I am at a loss as to what to do.
A few interesting things...Netflix is only receiving a 2.5 mbs from comcast to their servers (if I understood correctly). They need at least 5 for HD. They are telling me Comcast is not giving them what is needed.
Comcast refreshed my signal (all three different times I called) - I am getting and have been getting 28 mbs download for years. I have no issue with internet speed, except tonight for some reason I was getting some slow speeds dropping down to 6,7,and 8 randomly (this is altogether a different issue).
Also interesting is that the Netflix tech can see that in my area Comcast recently switched towers from a Comcast tower to an Amazon tower a little while back. I am wondering if this is causing an issue.
But the bottom line SOMETHING changed two or three weeks ago. My computer (apple)/modem/router is all the same. My TV/Apple TV is the same. None of this has changed...My problem happens in the day or the evening...and as I said before I have never had an issue, day or evening prior to two or three weeks ago.
Also I am wondering why Netflix would only (latley) receive 2.5 mbs from Comcast to their server. Is this a Comcast issue or a Netflix issue?
Anybody else have any solutions?
Thanks |
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 andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL |
The only solution is to find a new ISP, which is probably not an option for most. Or be prepared to pay Netflix more $$$ so they can pay the CDN's more so the CDN's can pay Comcast's ransom prices to upgrade connections.
On Saturday, at 6AM CST, I was getting 20-25Mbps on the counter of my BD player. By 9:30, it could only do 2.2M. Speed tests on the computer gave me my normal near 29/6. The BD player is hardwired. |
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rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
2 edits |
to Streetlight
Amazon and netflix use the same servers. We all found that out last christmas when the servers went down. Hula worked fine tho. Personally i think its just a netflix doesnt have enough available upload bandwidth to support the whole world streaming from them. There answer like utubes isnt the same as most ISPS answer is. Basically they want the isps to pick up the costs and the isps want netflix to pick up the costs. As of now its a problem across the board with most major isps. |
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RLM
@comcast.net |
RLM to gnuyork
Anon
2013-Dec-1 12:20 pm
to gnuyork
It won't matter how much Comcast Download speed you throw at the problem. The issue between Comcast and Netflix is a throttling problem. Based on their issue one can probably survive just fine with a 6 Mbps Comcast download service. How much speed do you need to surf the internet. And regardless of your download speed you are only going to stream with Comcast and Netflix what they allow and that appears to be around 3 Mbps. So if everyone cut back their Comcast internet service the problem will get fixed.
Netflix is insistent that the problem is Comcast not supplying bandwidth during peak streaming hours. Netflix claims that their download algorithms require more bandwidth for HD than services like VUDU.
Anyway this issue needs attention else someone is going to lose customer revenue. |
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rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
2 edits |
rody_44
Premium Member
2013-Dec-1 12:23 pm
Comcast doesnt throttle as his speed tests confirm. It really isnt comcasts problem netflix doesnt want to pay for the bandwidth for the ability to upload needed bandwidth. You and i pay for what we want to upload. Basically netflix wants a free ride and the internet never worked that way. Netflix thinks they are big enough where they should be able to rewrite the rules and make isps pay for the bandwidth. This isnt limited to comcast. Its the same with most major ISPs that actually get used. |
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to Robert Myers
Binge watched Parks and Rec as well as 30 Rock over the long weekend. Both had quality issues. The resolution would go from good to bad a few times per episode. Speed tests came out as 50/10. Apple TV connected via ethernet cable.
I do feel this is a Netflix issue as HBO Go had no such problems. |
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to rody_44
said by rody_44: Comcast doesnt throttle as his speed tests confirm. It really isnt comcasts problem netflix doesnt want to pay for the bandwidth for the ability to upload needed bandwidth. You and i pay for what we want to upload. Basically netflix wants a free ride and the internet never worked that way. Netflix thinks they are big enough where they should be able to rewrite the rules and make isps pay for the bandwidth QFT It's also re-proven with most every other site you go to on the Internet. (e.g. HBO Go comment above) Netflix wants ISPs to *give* them capacity, infrastructure and hosting as a free entitlement vs Netflix paying for this as most every other site/service on the Internet. They call this OpenConnect. If your ISP does not agree to OpenConnect entitlements, Netflix degrades the services expecting people will blame their ISP for Netflix performance decisions. They degrade their video by sending the traffic through a small number of poor quality transit ISPs vs the many they can choose from that would provide better performance. This is a form of "throttling" in the Netflix first mile. |
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Foxy
join:2010-04-10
Eugene, OR |
to Comcast Guy
said by Comcast Guy:The resolution would go from good to bad a few times per episode. I'd be happy if my resolution would consistently go from good to bad. Many times on nights and weekends it just goes to "Loading. Please wait." Last night was the first time I've noticed the quality dropped and I didn't have to wait for loading. Some times it will only play for 2 or 3 minutes before going back to loading. Other nights no problems at all. This is with a Sony BluRay player connected via ethernet. Bypassing the router makes no difference. I haven't contacted anyone -- just assumed it was a bandwidth issue because it happens nights and weekends. About ready to drop Netflix streaming anyway since many of the things I want to see are only available via their DVD service. |
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BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN  ·Xfinity
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to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:QFT
It's also re-proven with most every other site you go to on the Internet. (e.g. HBO Go comment above)
Netflix wants ISPs to *give* them capacity, infrastructure and hosting as a free entitlement vs Netflix paying for this as most every other site/service on the Internet. They call this OpenConnect. If your ISP does not agree to OpenConnect entitlements, Netflix degrades the services expecting people will blame their ISP for Netflix performance decisions.
They degrade their video by sending the traffic through a small number of poor quality transit ISPs vs the many they can choose from that would provide better performance. This is a form of "throttling" in the Netflix first mile. Completely false. Netflix pays a variety of carriers to provide connectivity for their service (including Tier 1 networks such as Level 3). In addition, they offer two ways to bypass these traditional carriers (most of which will charge on both ends, meaning it costs Netflix money AS WELL as ISPs to connect to these networks): 1) Establish settlement-free peering with Netflix (this is at no cost to ISPs to utilize) 2) Host servers provided by Netflix (at no cost, but will obviously use up space/power) To say this is a Netflix issue is seriously misunderstood. There are a number of ISPs out there that have zero issues providing a consistently high quality Netflix experience. It just so happens some of the larger Residential ISPs choose to degrade the routing quality, allowing inbound Netflix traffic to come through congested transit (this is the ISP's control, not Netflix). It just so happens that a few of these larger ISPs refuse to agree to settlement-free peering, as it's a conflict of interest in their mind (more than likely). However, these same ISPs have no problem peering with other networks that provide similar service, albeit not a direct competitor of their video service. |
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| BlueC |
to rody_44
said by rody_44: Comcast doesnt throttle as his speed tests confirm. It really isnt comcasts problem netflix doesnt want to pay for the bandwidth for the ability to upload needed bandwidth. You and i pay for what we want to upload. Basically netflix wants a free ride and the internet never worked that way. Netflix thinks they are big enough where they should be able to rewrite the rules and make isps pay for the bandwidth. This isnt limited to comcast. Its the same with most major ISPs that actually get used. This is a rather false assumption as well. Netflix realizes considerable expense to build out their network (yes, they operate their own network, as some people might not realize) to meet other ISPs at common exchange points around the globe. They clearly pay their fair share. » bgp.he.net/AS2906It is the larger ISPs that demand to be paid, in order to peer with Netflix. You have it the other way around. Netflix offers to peer with ISPs at no cost, and yet some ISPs refuse this offer (while many other networks gladly accept). Netflix isn't rewriting anything. They are offering a method of connectivity that thousands of other networks achieve on a daily basis. It's the larger Residential ISPs that think they're big enough to be paid by everyone, and not meet specific ASNs at a middle-point and establish settlement-free peering. |
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to BlueC
Netflix pays a very limited amount of lowest costs (and poorest performing) ISPs (most know who they are and their long history). They run every one of those ISPs peering links to 100% causing policy issues and traffic congestion.
Yes, one could pay the "protection money" (your #1 and #2) and expose themselves to every future thug out there who does the same thing. Then just consumers would fund the Internet (whether they use Netflix or not) |
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FactChecker
1 edit |
to BlueC
What you are failing to realize (or admit) is the fact that people that send traffic (Application Service Providers- ASP) own just as much of the cost of Internet growth as those that receive it (Broadband Customers). Netflix should be paying for network transit, just like Amazon, Hulu, Google, Akamai, Microsoft, etc, etc. They don't need to pay any specific ISP, but you can't expect to pick the cheapest and get the best.
Consumers are not the only ones that should be footing the bill for the Internet. AND Netflix should not expect an ISP to subsidize their transit across ALL of their customers. By Netflix paying for transit, they are specifically accounting for the cost of their service in their customer fees (vs spreading it across all broadband customers).
This is not a new "demand to be paid". This is the way the Internet has always worked and what is NEW is Netflix does not like this fact and wants special entitlements JUST for them.
Netflix is not a PEER of ISPs... They are a PEER of other ASPs who pay transit bills and account for this cost of doing business in their service. This is NOT a new cost for Netflix. It has always existed and they are trying to shift it to consumers |
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176.9 10.6
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to gnuyork
said by gnuyork:I have had netflix streaming for two years or more. I have never had issues prior to two weeks ago. NEVER.
My TV/Apple TV is the same. None of this has changed...My problem happens in the day or the evening...and as I said before I have never had an issue, day or evening prior to two or three weeks ago. If this started two to three weeks ago and you are only seeing it on your Apple TV then there is along discussion of this in the Apple TV discussion pages. » discussions.apple.com/th ··· tstart=0If you are seeing the issue on multiple platforms then it is likely something else |
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BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN ·Xfinity
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to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:Netflix pays a very limited amount of lowest costs (and poorest performing) ISPs (most know who they are and their long history). They run every one of those ISPs peering links to 100% causing policy issues and traffic congestion.
Yes, one could pay the "protection money" (your #1 and #2) and expose themselves to every future thug out there who does the same thing. Then just consumers would fund the Internet (whether they use Netflix or not) Prove it. Really, it would be educational for us all to understand where you're coming up with these facts. Netflix clearly has an expense to backhaul traffic to dozens of public and private internet exchange points around the world. That costs real money to do considering their traffic volume. Who are these "poorest performing ISPs" that use? |
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| BlueC |
to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:What you are failing to realize (or admit) is the fact that people that send traffic (Application Service Providers- ASP) own just as much of the cost of Internet growth as those that receive it (Broadband Customers). Netflix should be paying for network transit, just like Amazon, Hulu, Google, Akamai, Microsoft, etc, etc. They don't need to pay any specific ISP, but you can't expect to pick the cheapest and get the best.
Consumers are not the only ones that should be footing the bill for the Internet. AND Netflix should not expect an ISP to subsidize their transit across ALL of their customers. By Netflix paying for transit, they are specifically accounting for the cost of their service in their customer fees (vs spreading it across all broadband customers).
This is not a new "demand to be paid". This is the way the Internet has always worked and what is NEW is Netflix does not like this fact and wants special entitlements JUST for them.
Netflix is not a PEER of ISPs... They are a PEER of other ASPs who pay transit bills and account for this cost of doing business in their service. This is NOT a new cost for Netflix. It has always existed and they are trying to shift it to consumers Again, where are you coming up with your assumptions? Netflix pays for transit just like any other CDN provider. Netflix, ALONG WITH Akamai and Google, also provides cache servers for ISPs to benefit from. They are not the only ones doing this, I fail to see how Netflix is different than the other CDNs out there... Netflix is in fact a peer. They peer with dozens of other ASNs. » bgp.he.net/AS2906#_peersHow else do you think Netflix peers on public and private IXPs? Does someone just hand them free transport to these facilities? I'd entertain any proof of them not having any expense to do this, it's clear they have their own infrastructure to maintain. They fill in the gaps by paying certain carriers to provide them connectivity, that's no mystery, but I'd strongly argue that it's not limited to "poor performing" carriers. For what it's worth, I have yet to see any streaming issues at home, connected over the network I maintain. I have 3 carriers who all provide me full routes to the internet, all of which are capable of sending me Netflix traffic. Not one of them has had any congestion issues (except 1, which had to shut down Netflix peering due to an undisclosed reason, which only lasted for a week and I had 2 other networks to rely on for Netflix traffic, my subs didn't notice any impact on performance). |
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I never said they didn't have any expense. I said they want to shift their future network expenses to all users by forced peering. Strategy:
1 - Congest traffic through a few cheap paths vs many alternative quality options. This causes customer issues and complaints.
2 - Rank ISPs for "performance" largely impacted by this new congestion that did not exist when multiple CDNs were used which operate responsibly on the Internet
3 - Claim ISPs can fix issues by agreeing to give Netflix free peering unique to their service vs their competition
Kinda like the large man that comes into your store breaking windows and products while offering you protection for a price |
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BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN ·Xfinity
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BlueC
Member
2013-Dec-2 7:36 pm
said by FactChecker:I never said they didn't have any expense. I said they want to shift their future network expenses to all users by forced peering. Strategy:
1 - Congest traffic through a few cheap paths vs many alternative quality options. This causes customer issues and complaints.
2 - Rank ISPs for "performance" largely impacted by this new congestion that did not exist when multiple CDNs were used which operate responsibly on the Internet
3 - Claim ISPs can fix issues by agreeing to give Netflix free peering unique to their service vs their competition
Kinda like the large man that comes into your store breaking windows and products while offering you protection for a price But where you're largely incorrect is with the assumption that they only use cheap carriers for transit services. This is completely false. Regardless of that fact, Netflix spends the money to build out to dozens of public and private IXPs. This is what the large carriers do themselves, thus they are acting more as a carrier, which is worthy of peering. They are acting the same as any other CDN out there. Why else do other ISPs peer with them? Why is it the only significant residential ISPs that still refuse to peer, coincidentally have their own video product to sell? I can receive Netflix traffic from a number of high quality carriers. If I, as an ISP, choose to not accept traffic from those said carriers, that's my own fault. This is not the fault of Netflix. Comcast (and others) could solve this problem by either improving connectivity to other carriers that pass Netflix traffic, or just peer with Netflix directly (considering they're at the same IXPs already). What's the issue here? I don't see how your analogy is anywhere remotely similar, considering Netflix has displayed significant effort to improve connectivity, while some ISPs choose to limit Netflix traffic to congested routes. |
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