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siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17

2 recommendations

reply to antdude

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

LG says it will push out firmware update for spy TVs, but fails to apologise
»grahamcluley.com/2013/11/lg-firm···-spy-tv/



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

6 recommendations

said by siljaline:

LG says it will push out firmware update for spy TVs, but fails to apologise ...

They fail to apologize because their revenue model, just as for a growing number of companies, anticipates the cash flow from pushing custom adverts to users and marketing data distillations to other businesses.

Rhetorical question: what ever happened to just making one's money off building and selling a superior TV?
Rhetorical answer: the "new wave" in business is to view customers as perpetual cash cows, to be continually and silently milked of, and fed, marketable data and ads... rather than view them as a one-shot market for a sold product. Welcome to the new millenium.
--
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big

1 recommendation

reply to DownTheShore

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

said by DownTheShore:

Think I'll be keeping my "dumb" TV as long as I can.

Yep. Also dumb phone, dumb dishwasher, dumb refrigerator, etc. etc. and most definitely the dumb toilet. Fortunately they were built to last, and wonder of wonders they're easy to fix.


ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

1 edit
reply to La Luna

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

said by La Luna:

said by siljaline:

.....although the data is not retained by the server.

I love how they ALWAYS say that.

"Tactical with the truth"....never.
Also don't overlook the use of the word "the" in "although the data is not retained by THE server".
Whats wrong with putting the info on another one of theirs.....Before or after they obviously pass it on to one or more of their third parties.
They're collecting it in the first place to use for clues on what ads to push back to you.

said by Blackbird:

said by siljaline:

LG says it will push out firmware update for spy TVs, but fails to apologise ...

They fail to apologize because their revenue model, just as for a growing number of companies, anticipates the cash flow from pushing custom adverts to users and marketing data distillations to other businesses.

Welcome to the new millenium.

That's not your job to point out.........

quote:
"We understand you feel you should have been made aware of ..... THIS (inserted by me)......at the point of sale, and for obvious reasons LG are unable to pass comment on their actions."
Obviously that's the retailers job......No "up to the retailer" to explain.


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

Rhetorical question: what ever happened to just making one's money off building and selling a superior TV any superior electronic device?
Rhetorical answer: the "new wave" in business is to view customers as perpetual cash cows, to be continually and silently milked of, and fed, marketable data and ads... rather than view them as a one-shot market for a sold product. Welcome to the new millenium.

1 small change
--
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to antdude

Who didn't see this coming? Just wait for the Kinect to get used for this.



intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to norbert26

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

said by norbert26:

even if they are not making dumb TVs anymore simply do not connect it to the internet / don't set up the WIFI on it.

They can always have a back door, they are black box equipment. Better to just get a surround sound deck and a large format PC display.
--
You think theres no games for Linux? »desura.com »gameolith.com »humblebundle.com »playdeb.net »ubuntuvibes.com

Check out »youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT/videos »freespeech.org and »democracynow.org


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to PX Eliezer

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

said by PX Eliezer:

After that? Probably the toilet.

Already happening »io9.com/5944501/toilet-tapping-h···ug-habit


pcdebb
RIP lil hurricane
Premium
join:2000-12-03
Brandon, FL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to antdude

my parents recently purchased a new LED SmartTV. I can't remember if it's LG or Philips, but in either case, I haven't connected it to their network. They should appreciate that fact, considering my stepdad watches TV all the time in various stages of undress "handling" himself (think old ornery army vet that don't care what anyone thinks lol)
--
| map your city |



mmainprize

join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI
reply to antdude

It seem we need are own packet sniffers and deep packet inspection on our home networks just to stop all the spying.

Looks like a new market just opened up.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to goalieskates

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

Built to last you say? So I guess they're all 30+ years old?
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


Extide

join:2000-06-11
84129
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Yes. Why would access to the Internet be REQUIRED to use a LG tv? My mother lives in a senior assisted living apartments complex and she has no internet. She needs a new TV. I'll have to tell her to not buy a LG.
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

BTW, it was a Vizio TV, not an LG that required internet.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yeah, I know. I had Vizio in my post. Then I did an edit and put LG instead because most of the discussion has been about LG but OP was talking about a Vizio.

Did we ever establish why this Vizio tv could not be stopped from accessing the internet? The OP's post didn't make much sense.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

1 recommendation

said by Mele20:

Yeah, I know. I had Vizio in my post. Then I did an edit and put LG instead because most of the discussion has been about LG but OP was talking about a Vizio.

Did we ever establish why this Vizio tv could not be stopped from accessing the internet? The OP's post didn't make much sense.

From a design POV, it makes sense. Why would you buy a Smart TV if you did not want it connected to your network?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

I have a Smart TV. I didn't buy it specifically because it was "smart". I bought it because it got high raves from respected reviewers and users and all Samsung LEDs for 2011 were Smart (except maybe a few made special for Wal-Mart) and the series I purchased from was in my price range. So, should I have purchased from some other company that was not yet producing Smart TVs? Two years later, I don't think there are any that are not Smart (except really old models dragged out at Christmas to be sold real cheap at Wal-Mart). In other words, the buyer probably has no choice about it being smart or not. I didn't connect mine to the network immediately. When I did try, it wouldn't connect but no convenient popup telling me why. I suspected the cable although it was one I had just picked up from Oceanic TWC office. I went down a few days later and got another cable and it connected fine then. Mine is not nearly as "advanced" as the 2013 Samsung Smart TVs and I'm glad it isn't. I have to click on the SMART Hub button on the remote to bring up the Smart things it can do (like browsing the net, watching you tube videos directly, various apps, etc). So, if I don't want to use one of the apps, etc. I can disconnect it from the router and watch TV just fine.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

1 recommendation

That's interesting because I'm in the process of looking for a new TV and deciding if I go smart or consistent with the rest of the house and go dumb + WDTV Live box. Almost every smart model I'm looking at has an similarly spec'd dumb model. I have no doubt that the dumb TV will die at some point, but we are nowhere near that yet.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Millenium

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

said by Millenium:

The Samsungs have a camera and microphones, voice and facial recognition software too.

We have smart phones and On-Star to track everywhere we go. We've got the Xbox One and Smart TVs recording us in our homes. We have set-top boxes in the works to do the same, if not already. What next?

my car is a dumb car no onstar it's 03 it would be analog anyways if it did have onstar which is phased out all ready.

said by Blackbird:

I can see it now: a black box monitor on every toilet outlet, with wireless reporting. And NSA will tie into it, too...

they would be able to analyze your "leavings"

said by antdude:

My client's new Vizio 80" HDTV's wizard set up asked for the network, but it couldn't be skipped. I asked the Internet and Vizio's support on how to skip it. No one knows. It seems to be unskippable.

you can setup a fake router that goes nowhere. 127.0.0.1 aka loop back

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:2
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to AsherN

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

said by AsherN:

Why would you buy a Smart TV if you did not want it connected to your network?

Perhaps the TV has some other desirable feature that is not found in any "dumb" TVs sold at the time.

In fact, the ratio of smart vs dumb TVs being sold is slowly progressing toward smart TVs. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple of years all large TVs sold are smart TVs.


siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to antdude

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

LG fumbles response to Smart TV spying revelation, withdraws Smart Ad video
»grahamcluley.com/2013/11/lg-fumb···atement/



ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

2 edits

From siljaline article;

quote:
LG does not, or has ever, engaged in targeted advertisement using information collected from LG Smart TV owners. Information such as channel, TV platform, broadcast source, etc. that is collected by certain LG Smart TVs is not personal but viewing information. This information is collected to offer recommendations to viewers based on what other LG Smart TV owners are watching.

The ads are pushed from third parties. So the first sentence only confirms that they haven't DELIVERED "targeted" ads from profiles they may or may not have created for individual TV's.

"is collected to offer recommendations" O.k. I didn't realize this admission was in the first response from them when responding. That just makes me even more concerned now. My viewing habit history used to determine my desires and potential interests by running against known and predicted data basses of programs associated interests just to perhaps create an interest in a product. With no capacity to control that data's further use to erode society in general and pay the wages of someone that could of helped society recover from it's ills, not aid in it's decline. It's bad enough they want to use it for ads but to use it for prediction and influence in what i'll watch, in a new and equally erosive data set just multiplies the interest in the data collected.
"based on what other LG Smart TV owners are watching" sounds harmless at first but is it really. To be sure to cover the possibilities in that quote I would ad the word "also" at the end of the sentence.
Remember that for all of the illusion of what they just said to be true they only have to push one ad directly from them to your set based soley on the channel your on at the time and let the third parties do the rest.

said by Blackbird:

.....a growing number of companies, anticipates the cash flow from pushing custom adverts to users and marketing data distillations to other businesses.

Exactly how long does a family or persons TV habits need to be collected before certain long term assumptions can be attributed to their data?



intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to AsherN

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

said by AsherN:

From a design POV, it makes sense. Why would you buy a Smart TV if you did not want it connected to your network?

Allot of people are buying them, not because of all the "SmartTV" fluff, but instead because they are often the screens with the best picture quality, yet have no intention to use any of the crap tacked on to what should just be a dumb display.


intok

join:2012-03-15

2 edits
reply to ashrc4

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

said by ashrc4 See ProfileExactly how long does a family or persons TV habits need to be collected before certain long term assumptions can be attributed to their data? [/quote :
About four...ever.


planet

join:2001-11-05
Oz
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

Sweet Pic, not Smart, nor other bells and whistles, bare bones
»www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-···FMdNFzN7



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to AsherN

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user146;s viewing habits, USB file names

said by AsherN:

From a design POV, it makes sense. Why would you buy a Smart TV if you did not want it connected to your network?

I'm searching for a 65"+ tv. All have 3d crap, and/or are 'smart' (what a misnomer).
--
~ Project Hope ~


siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17

1 recommendation

reply to ashrc4

Re: Smart TV from LG phones home with user's viewing habits, USB file names

"Smart" being a misnomer for background data collection to third parties without user consent - point blank



ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

1 recommendation

reply to intok

said by intokbquote
About four...ever.
[/bquote :

Yeah maybe {single, male} You can always get a sex change I suppose.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to ashrc4

Do you subscribe to Netflix? I'd be far more concerned about invasion of privacy that way than from a TV that you can just disconnect from the network. With Netflix, you canNOT EVER delete your account. This is far more evil than some TV manufacturer screwing up with the ability to stop them from collecting information on your viewing habits. They are issuing a firmware fix for this and I cannot believe that one cannot just not connect the TV to the internet in the first place. Netflix is far worse because you cannot ever delete your account and they sell the information on your viewing to other parties and can do it ad infinitum even after you cancel your account because you cannot ever delete the account or get them to delete it. Netflix is pure evil if you care about your privacy. Hulu Plus has a much better policy and you can easily delete your account with them.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

No I don't use Netflix, but I do use Youtube linked through mostly my smartphone via 8tracks for music. I'm not sure whether my repatishious Deephouse music bent is enough to provide much data about me personally but that's just the thing, how do we know what can/is going to reveal anything about ourselves or how it may get used against us.
It's not just who is the most Evil at it anymore.
You can't stop other people using Netflix.
I don't go clubbing nor fit the associated age group nor do I have any control over who uses/wants that data.
You can't stop the damage done by having already collected sufficient data on enough individuals used to break down people into prediction models for future events.
If say the magic percentage was 70% likelihood of X occurring and the other 30% was too costly or time consuming to rule out then in the future your digital past may end up controlling your future whether you like it or not.

(therorectical rant)
You may say but why would you complain about living in a house with a "golden arch"
letterbox and a glass TV front door provided for free by LG that instinctively knows how to put a smile on the guests face as they approach to visit. Or the day-off you got from work cause the Google "Mood moniter" you doctor prescribed you install from that road rage incident involving you looking to stern at jaywalker claims you got out of the wrong side of the bed again. The fact that this was your 3rd incident in 6 months and your career path for the next 10 years was accordingly adjusted but you are not told why because a computer did a silent survey on the whole planet on whether the "Prediction and Prognosis" model could be implemented under the terms and conditions of having eaten a "twinky" that was a global giveaway 10 years previous.
Of course this was a sweetener deal from the people who currently hold 1/3 of the worlds wealth in offshore accounts who decided to give the money back on moral grounds (confused).
/rant



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to planet

said by planet:

Sweet Pic, not Smart, nor other bells and whistles, bare bones
»www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-···FMdNFzN7

Damn, that thing's overpriced by at least a hundred bucks.

Hmm pay extra for privacy I guess.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by sivran:

said by planet:

Sweet Pic, not Smart, nor other bells and whistles, bare bones
»www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-···FMdNFzN7

Damn, that thing's overpriced by at least a hundred bucks.

Hmm pay extra for privacy I guess.

Yeah. I guess buy the Smart TV and don't use its network connections if possible.
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.