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Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium
join:2004-07-08
united state
reply to Ghastlyone

Re: Elder Scrolls Online : Beta Invite received

Its very doubtful i play this game...very doubtful.

To me this is NOT the Elder Scrolls....

I grew up playing Arena, Daggerfall, have very found memories or Morrowind, spent tons of time in Cyrodiil in Oblivion, and have spent a good bit of time in Skyrim as well.

This MMO is TES "in name only" You will be able to do nothing that makes a TES a TES game.

No spell making
No enchanting
No fortifying your attributes to make godly weapons, clothes, etc
No potion making that can make you uber.
Your character will have no customization, no story unique to him/her

You will be stuck in a specific class, and forced to play the game in a specific way or a specific order.

individuality that has been paramount since the TES started will be taken away. I was mad enough at the removing of attributes from Skyrim (All other TES games had attributes such as strength, speed, endurance, etc) those attributes determined how good your character was at particular skills...for example characters with high strength attribute did more damage with melee weapons then a character with a low strength attribute. character with high strength could also carry more items.

Then there is athletics and acrobatics...which determined how fast your character could move, how agile and how well he could jump and maneuver in combat. so much being taken out of the game...it sucks

R

TES has always been about "you" The Agent, The Eternal Champion, The Neverarine, The Hero of Kvatch/Champion of Cyrodiil, the Last Dragonborn/Dovahkiin are the only person who can avert disaster and save the world during their respective era's.

So how is that possible on an MMO? its not....this MMO just cheapens then series, and IMO ruins a series i grew up with that i hold very dearly to my heart.

Hopefully this Elder Scrolls MMO just dies a wimpering puppy dog death, so Bethesda can get back to making real games like Fallout 4 and TES 6. Sorry I just despise MMO's...
--
Tech Tips



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

Zenimax is developing ESO, not Bethesda. Zenimax brought on Matt Firor, of Dark Age of Camelot fame, to run the ESO team. Bethesda is the publisher.

To each their own, but if you hate MMOs to begin with, it's going to be hard to convince you of anything, other than that other people will like the game, even if you won't.

That said, I wanted to speak to a couple of your points, for no reason in particular, for the benefit of those interested in this game who are watching this thread. If you are checked out already about this game, you don't have to reply.

Crafting - I know nothing about it, other than that it was disabled for this beta test, as they are not testing the crafting system yet, although they do plan on introducing it later (prior to release). I don't know if that means crafting weapons, armor, consumables, etc., but the raw ingredients are still in the world.

Character customization - Very much in the game, and as detailed as Skyrim's character creation screen. I think I spent 30 minutes on a Wood elf nightshade (rogue/sneak type character).



(note this isn't my image, i found it on google)

Any MMO is going to have to balance the compelling single player story with the fact that the same story is being told to everyone playing the game. Not everyone can be the Dovahkiin/Last Dragonborn/Chosen Son of God/Anointed Savior if 500,000 other subscribers are told the same thing. Any TES MMO will have to balance this fact and create a believable, balanced world with still an engaging story about "you."

Classes - I don't know how well a classless MMO would work. I believe you still would see cookie-cutter builds become standard pretty quickly, and anyone deviating from that will experience some pretty harsh anti-social shunning. It also would probably be a balance nightmare for the devs as they seek to balance OP combinations in both PVE and PVP against people complaining because their preferred build is not viable for anything.

If for no other reason than effective organizational management, having a class system lets them have a Dragonknight dev team, a Nightshade dev team, etc. and let them perform metrics on those classes to see what is the most popular class, which is broken, which needs love, etc. (Again, something specific to MMOs)

An example of a class-less RPG like TES is Divinity II: Ego Draconis. You could pick up any spells you want and focus on whatever type of combat you preferred, but the community quickly figured out that if you wanted advance in the game, you had to go dual wield. It's been a little bit of time since i played the game, but I believe I ended up quitting and starting over as I could not advance farther with a two-hand build. I think Skyrim had something similar with a sneak/bow build.

Also keep in mind that ESO will be coming out for PC, Xbone, and PS4. The universes won't communicate with each other, but this is being developed for consoles as well, which could end up providing a better experience vs. the useless complexity found in a lot of MMOs in terms of having dozens upon dozens of spells, but only having a rotation of 4-7 for actual fighting. ESO will have to simplify this down for console players, and I don't expect to see a different system for PCers.

After the abortion that was the Skyrim UI, I am looking forward to this.

Anyways, just my thoughts.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium
join:2004-07-08
united state

Kris:

Im sure the crafting system won't be like Skyrim, if it was, you would have folks way OP for a MMO

Character customization is more then just what your character looks like, its about fighting style and choice of weaponry as well.

For example, Illusion is a staple of the Spellsword...a spellsword without illusion is like a spellsword without a sword.

Now obviously, I won't be able to cast a chaos/frenzy spell that causes your character in-game, to turn on your party and try to kill your team mates, because that would be deemed unfair by the TES Online MMO community.

what many fail to realize is thats EXACTLY what Illusion is...if you have read the lore books from the previous game, Illusion is:

"The ability to effect the perception of the world on the spell's target"

So of course Illusion will butchered because invisibility is out too. Of course according to lore the character isn't really invisible, the caster has just effected the perception of those around him to "believe" him/her to be invisible.

Then we get into Alteration....Alteration is:

"The ability to Alter the world around you according to your will, to make the impossible, possible by convincing the world to bend to your will on a temporary basis"

Take waterbreathing for example, a small part of the lore of the school of Alteration...allows the caster to breath water...men/mer can't breath water...but Alteration makes this possible.

The most prized spell in Alteration is paralyze....am i going to be able to cast paralyze on other players and then kill them while they can't fight back? doubtful...but again...paralyze is a staple of Alteration...infact..its not Alteration without it.

So if I can't become invisible and assassinate my enemies in PVP zones, or cast high level frenzy spells causing other players to kill one another, or cast/enchant my weapon with paralyze and kill the other helpless player while he/she can't move, then what fun is that?

How about casting calm on another player so he can't attack me, and then knife him in the back (Classic TES Illusion)

How about casting a fear spell and all players run in fear from me? (Classic TES Illusion)

can't do any of that stuff huh?

thats ripping the guts right out of the Elder Scrolls

The Spellsword, Battlemage, Nightblade, and even the Assassin style of classes won't be viable without invisibility/paralyze/frenzy/calm/fear, etc

Look, I think some people may like this game, but i personally won't be in that group....I just don't see how this game would be fun for me when a staple of the best schools of magic will have to be gutted because most players would whine about it being overpowered (Even though Illusion and Alteration are supposed to be OP)
--
Tech Tips



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

Eh, what your are describing exists in the mechanics of WoW already. You can "stun" (paralyze) a target--rogues were famous for griefing by stealthing (going invisible) and then using an ability called Sap that put you to sleep for up to 45 seconds, I believe. Any damage would break the effect, but there were other disables available where you could continue to engage an incapacitated target.

Likewise, I don't know why Invisibility has to be out, as stealth classes are a staple in multiple MMOs.

Alteration already exists in WoW for mages, where you can split into five copies of yourself and your enemy won't know which one is the real you. Warlocks could breathe underwater (several classes could I believe), and priests could use a Dominate Mind talent to actually take over a player's mind and force them to do whatever they want with them (usually attack their friends, run away, or jump off a cliff to their death).

Likewise, WoW warlocks had both single target and AOE fear spells that would cause an enemy to flee in terror. It's pretty annoying to be chain feared with a fear, then a cry of terror, then a death coil, then a succubus sleep... then you're dead.

Anyways, I don't see a hard and fast mechanical reason why none of that could be included in the game. WoW has had nearly all of the mechanics you described, in most instances, going back to when it was released in 2004.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.



Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Woody79_00

said by Woody79_00:

Snip

Everything you're describing is being based on a PVP situation. I guarantee you they could implement every one of those Alteration, Illusion, and Summoning spells in the PVE portion of the game.


Savious
Premium
join:2012-03-05
Belgrade, MT
kudos:4
reply to Koil



Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
reply to Krisnatharok

Congratulations devs.

You made "Skyrim" look like a playstation 2 game.