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resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

1 recommendation

ITMP undue preference complaint filed against Bell

»benklass.wordpress.com/2013/11/2···he-line/

Essentially, Bell offers Bell Mobile TV which is a $5 subscription fee for 10 hours of live or replay tv from the Bell network, which doesn't count towards your data caps if using their cellular network.

Compare that to using Netflix on the Bell network, and you'd be paying for data for using their cellular network.

It seems a well thought-out and well-researched Part 1 Application.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


HiVolt
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join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
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Reviews:
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Interesting, thats for sure...

Similar thing can be said about FibeTV. You can watch 24/7 HD TV and not be charged a penny more than your TV subscription, but you watch 24/7 Netflix HD and you or your ISP needs to pay insane capacity fees.
--


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by HiVolt:

Interesting, thats for sure...

Similar thing can be said about FibeTV. You can watch 24/7 HD TV and not be charged a penny more than your TV subscription, but you watch 24/7 Netflix HD and you or your ISP needs to pay insane capacity fees.

I think they got away with that because they were able to convince the CRTC it was an entirely SEPARATE network.
*rolls her eyes*
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Battle.net Tech Support MVP


HiVolt
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said by resa1983:

I think they got away with that because they were able to convince the CRTC it was an entirely SEPARATE network.
*rolls her eyes*

Yeah, VLAN 35 (internet) VLAN 36 (TV).

goes over the same fiber feed to the FTTN remote.
--



hmm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

5$ for 10-hrs is how many gigs?

What would that cost someone w/o unlimited or Cell on say... Bell internet (assume it passes the cap)?



rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
reply to resa1983

They've always been doing their own tv. No one in their right mind is going to jump ship to bell because they got this on the go.



HiVolt
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Toronto, ON
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1 edit

Rogers does the exact same thing, for the exact same price.

Rogers Anyplace TV lets you watch live programming, TV shows, movies, sports and web-exclusive extras directly on your smartphone.
An exclusive service for Rogers wireless customers, view 10 hours of programming on your device with no additional data charges for only $5/month

How the hell is this not collusion. Bot giant companies just happened to price the exact same service addon for the exact same price.
--



hmm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

Bell applies a markup of at least 800% to customers’ mobile use of Internet services like YouTube and Netflix, compared to the customer’s cost of watching Bell’s Internet content.

Very true.

So in other words, by-pass our extreme mark-up for 5$ a month, but only with Bell TV programming. Netflix will still cost you 800% more.

Anyone else not surprised?

Wonder if Netflix will get involved in this one?


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Rogers does the exact same thing, for the exact same price.

Rogers Anyplace TV lets you watch live programming, TV shows, movies, sports and web-exclusive extras directly on your smartphone.
An exclusive service for Rogers wireless customers, view 10 hours of programming on your device with no additional data charges for only $5/month

I told Ben that, and he suggested an intervenor comment on that in the first few days if the CRTC accepts his Part 1 Application..

Drag Rogers into this kicking & screaming.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


hazy memory

@videotron.ca
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Rogers Anyplace TV lets you watch live programming, TV shows, movies, sports and web-exclusive extras directly on your smartphone.

There was already a part 1 (called a part 7 back then) Undue preference fight that I believe was started by Telus a couple of years ago.

If I recall right, Bell couldn't give itself undue preference with programming, But they could with certain "exclusive" broadcasts.

I didn't check that guys references. He may or may not have ref'd that CRTC fight. If he didn't, he might want to look that ruling over.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by hazy memory :

said by HiVolt:

Rogers Anyplace TV lets you watch live programming, TV shows, movies, sports and web-exclusive extras directly on your smartphone.

There was already a part 1 (called a part 7 back then) Undue preference fight that I believe was started by Telus a couple of years ago.

If I recall right, Bell couldn't give itself undue preference with programming, But they could with certain "exclusive" broadcasts.

I didn't check that guys references. He may or may not have ref'd that CRTC fight. If he didn't, he might want to look that ruling over.

Think I found it..
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-765.htm
Telus vs Bell for undue preference for programming.

This however isn't for programming, but ITMP.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


hazy memory

@videotron.ca

Oh there were a few files on that, 2011-173, and some follow-ups to that 765 decision like, »crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2012/lb120229.htm

But yeah, I saw Hivolt mention the "exclusives", thats why I chimed in that it was allowed. But it shouldn't cost less in terms of data costs. The financial ITMP was supposed to be uniform, not give an edge over whose content someone will watch.

BTW, Videotron does it more or less the same way.
»www.videotron.com/residential/mo···t2240061

1) You have to buy a block of their Mobile-TV time at 10$ for 15-hrs per month (5-hrs are free per month). No clue how much data that is for a total of 20-hrs @10$.

2) The other block is 30-hrs for 15$/month (5 hrs are free).

If you surpass that time allocation in either package, they charge a flat rate of $1.50 per additional hour.

Again, I have no clue what usage this turns out to be.

If I use Videotrons mobile, would I pay 15$ if my kid watched 35-hrs of Netflix in a month?

On videotron it's 15$ for a 500-meg block.

So we have Bell, Rogers and Videotron doing it.

Anyone else?


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to hmm

Bell's website indicates that Mobile TV viewing uses 512MB per hour, see "Managing Internet Usage" header (toward the bottom):
»support.bell.ca/tv/channels/what···t?step=5


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to hazy memory

My complaint is about ITMPs, not broadcasting. There are different methods you would have to use to show preference in relation to broadcasting, but it would be trickier since it would require access to corporate agreements between Bell Mobility Inc and Bell Media, CBC, Rogers Media, etc that are not publicly available.


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to resa1983

you are correct ma'am.


bklass
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join:2012-02-06
Canada
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reply to hazy memory

said by hazy memory :

So we have Bell, Rogers and Videotron doing it.

Thanks for pointing this out. FYI I have spoken to Telus Support's twitter who inform me that Optik TV app is subject to the standard cap. MTS does not have a mobile video app according to a recent conversation with their mall kiosk rep, for what that's worth. Seems like the vertically integrated companies are the ones who are doing it.


hazy memory

@videotron.ca
reply to bklass

said by bklass:

Bell's website indicates that Mobile TV viewing uses 512MB per hour

said by hazy memory :

If I use Videotrons mobile, would I pay 15$ if my kid watched 35-hrs of Netflix in a month?

So with videotron, 35 hrs would be 15$ with their own TV offerings.

W/ Netflix i'd be on the hook for something like 18-gigs.

*shrug*

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
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said by hazy memory :

said by bklass:

Bell's website indicates that Mobile TV viewing uses 512MB per hour

said by hazy memory :

If I use Videotrons mobile, would I pay 15$ if my kid watched 35-hrs of Netflix in a month?

So with videotron, 35 hrs would be 15$ with their own TV offerings.

W/ Netflix i'd be on the hook for something like 18-gigs.

*shrug*

On Bhell's network that 512mb/h would cost $256 for 10 hours (assuming strictly overage fees)


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
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Reviews:
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reply to resa1983

What's interesting about this, is that it used to members of the Robellus cartel would go after each other, simply to stir the pot and that was the cost of doing business.

Now the ordinary guy is going after them, Ben that was a well done, well researched document, without the usual tongue in cheek comments we get from JF's interventions.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


bklass
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join:2012-02-06
Canada
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Thanks elwood. I believe that Bell could be doing better if they offered their services in a fair manner. What's good for consumers is good for the industry, you might say.



Purple Haze

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

What's interesting about this, is that it used to members of the Robellus cartel would go after each other, simply to stir the pot and that was the cost of doing business.

I'm surprised Telus hasn't already filed something like this. But the past few years we have been seeing Telus tow the Bell line.

If this gets accepted by the CRTC the filing I most look forward to reading (aside from Bell explaining how a electron is different depending on it's origin) will be the Telus filing. If they file and/or are made party to this.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to bklass

said by bklass:

Thanks elwood. I believe that Bell could be doing better if they offered their services in a fair manner. What's good for consumers is good for the industry, you might say.

Unfortunately it will never happen,simply because successive governments have allowed this insane amount of concentration.

As Hivolt put above, they've painted themselves into a corner.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Purple Haze

Telus has received a copy of my submission.


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues

You may be interested in this comprehensive report from the Canadian Media Concentration Research Project. Disclaimer: I helped out with the research. It was presented at this week's IIC conference in Ottawa, contra to Jeffrey Church's nonsense about how we already have too much competition. »www.cmcrp.org/wp-content/uploads···ada2.pdf



hmm

@videotron.ca

said by bklass:

contra to Jeffrey Church's nonsense about how we already have too much competition. »www.cmcrp.org/wp-content/uploads···ada2.pdf

The Church report.. Was Church not paid by Rogers for that report? I think I recall reading that Rogers funded that report.

So if someone stuff's money in your wallet to write a report, how unbiased would that report be?

The Church report can't be taken at face value. "Nonsense" (as you stated) and "junk science" would best describe the Church report.


Purple Haze

@videotron.ca
reply to JMJimmy

said by JMJimmy:

On Bhell's network that 512mb/h would cost $256 for 10 hours (assuming strictly overage fees)

so that 5-gigs would be 256$? You sure about that?

I believe (not 100% sure) that videotron charges 5-cents or 10-cents per MB of internet data (depending on the plan you have). So what does that 18-gigs work out to be? Or your 5-gigs?



You see, it all has to do with "internal network usage". Since it never leaves the videotron network, data costs are very low. Where-as with netflix the costs are higher because it is non-internal network data.

This is what they're going to say. Kind of like 2 different pipes as said here, »Re: ITMP undue preference complaint filed against Bell

The retail rate of overages (as seen on their webpage) for videotron TV data on their own network is 1.50$ per 512 MB data block (512 = 1-hour).

For netflix that same data block costs 25.60$ (@5-cents). Or 51.20$ (@10-cents) if you have a lesser mobile package.

Seems about right. As we all know, 512MB internal data is very different than 512MB of external data. These are not the same looking MB's. The MB are completely different, the data pipe is completely different, and the wireless airwaves they use take a different path.

Makes sense.

bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to hmm

Ideology dressed up as science, I would say. It was a previous report that was commissioned by Rogers, I am uncertain of how this current report was funded. I have heard rumours in the academy that Church is known as a "heavily consulted" economist FWIW.


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Purple Haze

Bell Mobile TV can be watched on other carrier's wired networks via Wi-Fi I believe. Also, I do not believe that open internet data transfer involves any toll rates.


bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Purple Haze

Also, the reason that the CRTC allows UBB is to manage network congestion. Open Internet data on an internal network is competing for capacity with any internal network traffic, whether it is classified as open internet traffic or not.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to bklass

said by bklass:

Also, I do not believe that open internet data transfer involves any toll rates.

That depends on the relationships between intervening networks.