nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO |
to Liberty
Re: RG6 Cable Rating Req'd for New House Construction?I'm calling bullshit as well. All UL approved CATV cable is listed for up to 300V. Copper clad steel can handle the tiny voltage / current piped out by satellite receivers. |
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public join:2002-01-19 Santa Clara, CA |
to medbuyer
said by medbuyer:bending or ease of use is just one SMALL factor for choosing the right RG6, the BIGGEST factor is conductivity which plays a big factor also on how much bandwidth it can carry. You are confused. Signal current flows only on the surface, so solid and plated have the same bandwidth. The difference is dc drop due to high resistance when powering a remote lnb. |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL 1 edit |
to medbuyer
said by medbuyer:bending or ease of use is just one SMALL factor for choosing the right RG6, the BIGGEST factor is conductivity which plays a big factor also on how much bandwidth it can carry. Baloney, unless you are trying to push baseband video DC-4.5 MHz down the coax there is absolutely no need to have a solid copper center conductor, you fail to understand the skin effect an how it negates the need for such. |
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lutful... of ideas Premium Member join:2005-06-16 Ottawa, ON |
to TheMG
said by TheMG:said by OldCableGuy :making sure you get quad sheid swept to 2ghz. What exactly do they mean when they say this? ... I deal a lot with RF systems and coaxial cables at work (but not CATV), and have never seen a manufacturer's datasheet mention "swept to xGHz". Your coax cables are probably "swept to 18Ghz" ... sadly typical cable/Satellite/TV installers are easy prey for the marketing guys at coax companies. Some guy was trying to spread fear-and-doubt about 36V, obviously not realizing that higher voltage injection means lower current to send same power. It is the current carrying capability that matters. Curiously I inject 90V on silver-plated copper-clad steel core coax (for very high power BUCs of ISP satellite dishes) and have done 1000ft runs of tin-dipped copper braid "single" shield coax in very busy RF environments in South Asia. Being able to measure actual insertion loss and actual interference pickup through the shield saves a lot of rupees. |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
to Liberty
said by Liberty:I buy my coax by the pallet Woop-de-do, the local authorized Dish installer here get it delivered by a semi to his loading dock I can guarantee you that Dish & DirecTv specifications require 3 gig swept & solid copper conductor only coax. Really now, the picture below is a hunk of coax run by an authorized Dish installer, note the rare earth magnet stuck to the center conductor and while rare earth magnets can be quite powerful they still will not stick to copper, so why does it stay there, its because the Dish coax utilizes a copper plated steel center conductor
Same with the satellite internet providers, where it is even more critical Yea right, I have been installing both FTA and satellite Internet since C band (4 meter dishes) and later in the early days of Wild Blue and have run miles of Honeywell 5007 quad with a steel clad center conductor with nary a problem and as for voltage drop, with a resistance of only 30 ohms per Kf powering a LNB or a BUC has not been a problem.
By the way Honeywell/Genesis actually labels their boxes and coax as suitable for both CATV and Satellite. Honeywell5007.pdf 20087 bytes
As satellite hardware technology moves forward it is sending more voltage out to the dish which is what makes the solid copper stinger necessary. Exede satellite internet is sending upwards of 36 volts out to dish and that plated steel conductor can't handle it Now you have really tipped your hand, as more voltage does not equate a need for more copper, more voltage requires a higher insulation rating and with listed RG6 quad, it is rated for 300 volts, greatly exceeding whatever an STB or satellite modem will ever put out. Also the frequency range is expanding as time goes on making 3 gig swept coax beneficial for current generation satellite Tv and necessary for satellite internet Really now, do you happen to know the frequencies used between an STB and an LNB or say a satellite modem and the BUC? Hardest part will be finding a source My sources only sell to businesses that have established an account with them ADI Distribution is like that too. |
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former qwest
Anon
2013-Nov-23 10:59 am
You really can't state that Dish uses CCS. I was a Dish employee, not a contractor. We used solid copper RG-6. Why? It won't rust. I can't tell you how many F connectors I had to replace due to rust. Contractors will buy CCS because it's cheaper. |
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Liberty Premium Member join:2005-06-12 Arizona |
to garys_2k
While many of the replies in this thread are likely beyond the scope of the OP's question, I will add one last comment to this thread Much of todays generation of gear using coax cable is capable getting by with less than the manufacturer's specified cabling requirements I suggest that for the very few dollars more it would cost to install the currently highest grade RG6 to increase the odds that at some point in not too distant future a hardware/technology upgrade will not require wrapping the house with the better cable I am attaching a screen shot of a System Status page that includes a report of the cable resistance I have tried to use existing copper clad coax for Exede installations and the Status would display a red X for resistance and performance was measurably impaired I had to show the customer by temproarily running correct cable thru his window that running correct cable would out perform his in-the-wall cable I once installed a commercial grade (iDirect) large bandwidth satellite internet system and used regular 3gig/solid copper coax when product is spec'd 3gig/solid/quad shield I could not get it to pass and spent enormous amount of time with ts I finally went back to shop and grabbed correct cable and job went thru as it should have first time I concede, the iDirect is currently well beyond consumer grade hardware but may be a window into the future as far as future demands of consumer gear I will turn this thread back over to the luddites after attaching screen shot - have a great weekend all... |
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OldCableGuy to 54067323
Anon
2013-Nov-23 11:21 am
to 54067323
Got sucked in to feeding the troll again. |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
to former qwest
said by former qwest :You really can't state that Dish uses CCS. I was a Dish employee, not a contractor. These guys are Dish, I know the guy whose license they operate under. We used solid copper RG-6. Why? It won't rust. I can't tell you how many F connectors I had to replace due to rust. Wouldn't make a difference, if the connection is leaking to the point the center conductor is getting wet, that moisture combined with the DC power from the STB is going to tear it up electrically rust or no rust. The trick with keeping F connectors dry, regardless of the nature of the center conductor, is to properly seal them and that doesnt mean a few wraps with some electrical tape. |
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to garys_2k
The only cable I use for CATV runs is Belden 1694a which is swept tested from 5 Mhz to 4.5 Ghz and is a solid copper conductor.
You can use the plenum grade version 1695a if you want to be within code.
This is the best and highest quality cable, broadcast quality, digital level cable you can get at this time.
I've used Belden 1694A in my home as it's not required to run plenum grade in a home.
All ends are terminated with Canare connectors FP-C53A with colored boots CB26 to signify which drop it is.
So, if you want the best (and costly too) RG6, Belden 1694a is the way to go! You can use compression ends and since this cable somewhat mimics a quad thickness, when going to compression ends, look for those that will handle up to RG6 Quad.
And it handles 300V RMS which is UL Listed.
Deanski |
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Killa200
Premium Member
2013-Nov-23 10:27 pm
I'm all for running good stuff in the walls, but you know that the drop to the house isn't even close to the quality of that stuff in your house. At least you can tell them its not your stuff when it breaks, and maybe they'll listen and not cut off your nice ends "testing" things, |
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Deanski
Member
2013-Nov-23 10:48 pm
Yeah, I know what you mean. One tech shows up and looks at all the nicely dressed drops with Canare ends and boots. I warned him there would be no reason to assume the ends are the fault on one visit and advised that if he proceeded to cut them off, I will bill back CV for my time and material.
Normally, they move on when they see the darn things. I've always said for them to look outside first for problems before even thinking the runs are faulted. I've welcomed them to attach any testing device to prove how superior they are.
I have 1000 foot spools of Belden 1694A and have access to RG-11 full copper conductor which I always offer if there is any chance CV has to fly a new drop to the DEMARC.
Deanski |
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1 edit |
to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:Can you run CM rated cable (enclosed in a wall cavity) between a wood-frame house's basement and first floor, or do you need to use CR cable where it runs between floors? Avoid the question, and the two pages of comments in this thread, by using ENT or the comparable equivalent allowed in your jurisdiction. Buy the cheapest cable that will work, install only what you need right now, and if it doesn't work, replace it with more expensive cable. |
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lutful... of ideas Premium Member join:2005-06-16 Ottawa, ON 1 edit |
to Liberty
said by Liberty:I have tried to use existing copper clad coax for Exede installations and the Status would display a red X for resistance ... That test appears to be a simple DC resistance measurement deliberately designed to catch people exceeding 150ft coax length or making poor connections. said by Liberty:... and performance was measurably impaired People who make such announcements often can't explain how they measured the performance. FYI silver-plated copper-clad steel core coax rated for 18Ghz (for example) will FAIL their DC resistance test ... but will PASS the desired RF signal with far less attenuation. Meanwhile the copper-clad layer will pass even 90V/1A=90W to equipment. *** looked up specs for CCS central conductor with 30% copper cladding which WILL pass the Exede resistance test for 150ft length. |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
54067323 (banned)
Member
2013-Nov-25 6:57 am
said by lutful:FYI silver-plated copper-clad steel core coax rated for 18Ghz (for example) will FAIL their DC resistance test ... but will PASS the desired RF signal with far less attenuation. However, there is no such cable for residential CATV or satellite, so it is really not relevant to the subject at hand. |
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ke4pym Premium Member join:2004-07-24 Charlotte, NC |
to 54067323
said by 54067323:Really now, do you happen to know the frequencies used between an STB and an LNB or say a satellite modem and the BUC? Oooh, oooh, I do! I do! These threads crack me up. We need an /dsl/coaxcirclejerk |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
54067323 (banned)
Member
2013-Nov-25 9:27 am
said by ke4pym:Oooh, oooh, I do! I do! Would that be IF? |
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ke4pym Premium Member join:2004-07-24 Charlotte, NC |
ke4pym
Premium Member
2013-Nov-25 9:48 am
IF? I don't know about the satellite modem and BUC. I've never worked with one of those. But with a standard-issue DirecTV SWM based system, the channel used by the STB is going to be assigned by the LNB based on the order in which the receivers are started. Channels 1-8 are assigned between 1076 and 1790 MHz. 974MHz and 2.3Mhz are also in the mix for guide and control data. |
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lutful... of ideas Premium Member join:2005-06-16 Ottawa, ON |
lutful
Premium Member
2013-Nov-26 12:00 am
said by ke4pym:I don't know about the satellite modem and BUC. I've never worked with one of those. Modern high power satellite upconverters use 1Ghz-2Ghz intermediate frequency. P.S. I design VSAT systems for overseas ISPs and help installers deploy and debug them. This 2005 thread photo shows one such installation from 2004. » Re: low on budget middle of nowhere |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
54067323 (banned)
Member
2013-Nov-26 6:26 am
Those transmit frequencies are not valid in the U.S. |
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I'm wondering what all that has to do with the OP's original post? He's not in another country or the tropics. |
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54067323 (banned) join:2012-09-25 Tuscaloosa, AL |
54067323 (banned)
Member
2013-Nov-26 9:27 am
said by Jack_in_VA:I'm wondering what all that has to do with the OP's original post? It has actually nothing to do with the OP's post, it's just some way off topic ramblings. |
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garys_2k Premium Member join:2004-05-07 Farmington, MI |
to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:I'm wondering what all that has to do with the OP's original post? He's not in another country or the tropics. LOL, Jack the last couple of threads I've started have drifted so far from anything to do with my questions that I've just learned to sit back, munch the popcorn and enjoy the show. I already said I'm happy with CCS (have already run a couple of hundred feet in the last two days) and am sure it will be fine. Anyway, back to the Saturday Night Fights... |
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lutful... of ideas Premium Member join:2005-06-16 Ottawa, ON |
lutful
Premium Member
2013-Nov-26 10:45 pm
said by garys_2k:I already said I'm happy with CCS (have already run a couple of hundred feet in the last two days) and am sure it will be fine. Sorry for the usual knee-jerk reactions after expressing same opinion. My opinion is based on knowledge as a RF hardware and systems designer and many years experience running 2Ghz+ intermediate frequency through good quality CCS coax. |
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