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afya

join:2011-05-09
Livingston, NJ

Is it possible to upgrade to a router with wireless n free?

Mine is an old MI424WR Rev D. I think at the end of 2013, wireless n should be standard? Is it possible to get a router with at least wireless n? I saw a flier selling a new router that cost $80. I'm not asking gigabyte lan. I just want better wifi.

If not because it's getting internet from coaxial cable, I'd have bought my own router.....(not gonna use 2 router for 1 job)...



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:29

It's possible if you have the 75/35 tier or higher.

The price of the single band N router has gone up to $99.
IMO, not a good deal.

Your internet connection can be switched from coax to cat5 if you can run your own cat5 cable to the ONT.
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Replacing the Actiontec (part 1): Coax to Ethernet
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.



JT

@verizon.net
reply to afya

I had an old revision C or D and I have the 75/35 plan. I called a couple months ago, and after some complaining they ended up sending me a new revision I. They didn't want the old router back so I'm using that as a MOCA bridge downstairs now to give me some ethernet connection options. Give it a shot.


afya

join:2011-05-09
Livingston, NJ
reply to afya

Thanks for the replies.

I have 35/30 or around that so they probably won't get me a new one. Guess I'll try to run cable and even run a hub to split it, then run my own router.


criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to afya

For what it's worth, I'm one of those who got an upgrade to a wireless n router for free. When I turned on FIOS Internet 50/25 a few weeks ago, the technicians showed up to do their thing and make it work. As that was happening, I told them that all my computers were laptops, too far away from the router to connect by Ethernet, and that I would therefore be connecting to the router through WiFi on every one. I asked if there was any difference in speed between the Ethernet connection and the WiFi connection (I had never been exposed to this technology and was a complete newbie).

Their response was "Well, if you're only going to be connecting to WiFi, you won't be getting the speed you've been promised on this router. Tony, get me a red one from the truck."

And that was that!

So here are the speeds I'm now getting on WiFi off of the red router:




(Your mileage may vary; just be sure to DE-SELECT Auto on the router and pick one of the WiFi channels. Oddly enough, I've found Channel 4 works best for me, but the channels most recommend, since they have the least interference on paper, are 1, 6 and/or 11.)

I'm very curious to know whether my experience was unusual or whether others have had similar experiences. Was it my informing them that I could not use the Ethernet cable that triggered the freebie? Or was I just lucky with some nice guys?

Mahalo

join:2000-12-20
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to afya

Since you don't need the Gig LAN you can use one of these that More Fiber has pointed out before: »www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Mbps-Wir···0134LUE2

If you want to pay for shipping, I have a few Rev I hanging around. PM me if you want one.
--
My other computer is your computer


unclejosh9

join:2005-03-01
Stoughton, MA
reply to afya

FYI, based on another poster's advice, I just did the online chat and said the router (I had a Rev C) wasn't connecting correctly all the time and they sent me a brand spanking new N router free.


unclejosh9

join:2005-03-01
Stoughton, MA
reply to criggs

said by criggs:

Your mileage may vary; just be sure to DE-SELECT Auto on the router and pick one of the WiFi channels. Oddly enough, I've found Channel 4 works best for me, but the channels most recommend, since they have the least interference on paper, are 1, 6 and/or 11.)

What does this mean? How do I de-select Auto?

denary

join:2002-12-27
Wakefield, MA
reply to JT

I upgraded to 75/35 and got shot down on a chat session with Verizon. Any insight into what you said to persuade them?



JT

@verizon.net

Nothing that special that I recall. I basically just complained that wireless G was too slow for the 75/35, but I didn't really talk very long about it. I did have the rev C so maybe that was old enough for me to warrant the upgrade. Not sure.

She also said I'd have to return the old router, but that turned out not to be the case. Right person. Right time. Seems to be the case on most calls to any customer service folk lol


criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit
reply to unclejosh9

said by unclejosh9:

FYI, based on another poster's advice, I just did the online chat and said the router (I had a Rev C) wasn't connecting correctly all the time and they sent me a brand spanking new N router free.

Aha!!! Those are the magic words. If it ain't working, they don't bother sending you another dinosaur; instead they swap you with the latest and greatest. Good to know; thanks!!

denary

join:2002-12-27
Wakefield, MA
reply to JT

Right person. Right time is right! I've give it another shot and see.

Thanks for update.


criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to unclejosh9

said by unclejosh9:

How do I de-select Auto?

Assuming you have the same router as I do, or will have the same router, here's how you do it.

Once connected to the Web, take your browser to »192.168.1.1/ . You will be asked for user name and password, which should be printed on the side of the router. While typing in your password you may see something very peculiar on the screen; it will look like your keyboard is stuttering and you are entering far more letters than you want. I have no idea why that happens with this login, but ignore it; nine chances out of ten, you're fine. Simply type in the password like everything's fine and then click OK.

Once logged in, select Wireless Settings on top.

Then, on the left side, select Basic Security Settings.

Then scroll down to item 3, Channels. It will almost certainly say Auto. Click the dropdown for that parameter and change that to one of the individual channels. Most recommend channels 1, 6 or 11, since, on paper, they overlap the least with the other allowed channels; try those three channels in turn to see if any provide you with an experience that comes close to your rated speed (e.g. if you're on the 50/25 speed, find which channels gives you performance which most consistently meets, comes close to, or exceeds 50/25). My experience is somewhat anomalous. I did additional experimenting and found that, in my case, the most consistent and reliable channel in my area is 4 (go figure!). Leave the "Keep my channel selection during power cycle." checked.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click Apply.

While the router recycles and reconfigures, you will probably be disconnected. If you are using the Ethernet connection, then your connection should be restored after 30 seconds. If you're connecting through WiFi, you will be disconnected. Wait 30 seconds and then reconnect. Go to Speedtest.net and run a speed test to see what you're getting. I also find ISP Geeks useful as well at »www.ispgeeks.com/wild/modules.ph···pipSpeed , because sometimes your speed may be good but your connection may not be very stable, which the ISP Geeks test reveals in its Quality of Service report. If your connection lacks stability then ignore the good speeds and keep trying different channels until your stability is good as well (i.e. your Quality of Service is green in ISP Geeks' color-coded Summary).

Good luck, and let me know how you make out. And don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions about the foregoing or if anything is unclear.

brutus

join:2003-12-16
Tampa, FL

Also if you have an android device, you can get a free app called WiFi Analyzer. It will actually show all the surrounding WiFi networks and what channels they are using so you can see which channel is the least cluttered.


bshubinsky

join:2013-12-03
reply to afya

I'm having a heck of a time getting them to upgrade me. I have the 75/35 internet and they refuse to give me an upgrade without spending $100 on their crappy router. I've bitched and moaned, I've tried to be nice and explaining it to them, but all they keep telling me is to run ethernet through my entire house so that I can get the speeds.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? I'm about to start calling Executive Admins since it's practically extortion.


criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom

Well, it seems that one way to get around this is to simply state that you're not getting the right speed with your router THROUGH ETHERNET. Ethernet is the only means which Verizon officially supports. If you don't mention connecting through WiFi AT ALL to them, then it makes it harder for them to evade the router swap.


bshubinsky

join:2013-12-03

I've tried that before and then they want to connect to my PC remotely and run speed tests, which renders it moot. Maybe I should just tell them it caught fire and hope for a new one to get sent to me to replace it.


criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom

You know, I hate to say it, but if Verizon were to simply say "For guaranteed WiFi speeds that come close to the Ethernet speed off of your router we charge a monthly surcharge of $5 a month" or something like that, in my opinion, that would be an improvement over the current arrangement, where you're basically at the mercy of whatever kind of mood the Verizon person you're talking to is. In my case, I lucked out and got two pussycats for engineers, who wanted to bend over backward to make sure I was happy. In far too many cases, you have the holdup approach, where they try to stick you up for $100 to get in spec performance off of WiFi on the new router. This inconsistency and arbitrariness is, if anything, worse than something that is at least predictable and quantifiable.


bshubinsky

join:2013-12-03

I agree. If I was to rent the new router (as you do with Comcast) I could understand that. But to force me into buying a shitty, overpriced router that will be practically worthless if I were to ever switch from Verizon sounds like a jip and a half.



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24
reply to criggs

said by criggs:

In my case, I lucked out and got two pussycats for engineers, who wanted to bend over backward to make sure I was happy. In far too many cases, you have the holdup approach, where they try to stick you up for $100 to get in spec performance off of WiFi on the new router. This inconsistency and arbitrariness is, if anything, worse than something that is at least predictable and quantifiable.

You can not compare your experience to others. Yours is a new install while others are exisiting service that were upgraded to higher speeds. Nevertheless, I agree that @ 50/25 and above should be given an N wireless routers as part of the service.

criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to bshubinsky

said by bshubinsky:

But to force me into buying a shitty, overpriced router that will be practically worthless if I were to ever switch from Verizon sounds like a jip and a half.

Perhaps if Verizon were to offer a payment plan on the router, say a two-year plan at 4.17 a month, that's one way to at least cushion the blow. In addition, it occurs to me that there's nothing to prevent a customer, e.g. any of the customers on this page who are being stymied in their efforts to upgrade their Verizon router, to simply ask about a payment plan on the router. that might be another way to skin this cat.

criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to bluepoint

said by bluepoint:

You can not compare your experience to others. Yours is a new install while others are exisiting service that were upgraded to higher speeds.

My first reaction was yes, that is an important distinction. But, on reflection, I think it's useful to point out that in my case I already had the old bad router, as a result of having FIOS TV installed fourteen months ago. At that time, I was on a wireless Internet plan, so I chose not to implement FIOS internet. So, in a sense, when I decided to add Internet to my FIOS package, it was not a classic new install, in the strictest sense of the word. In fact, initially, when the engineers showed up, all they did was activate my old bad router, and confirm that I had connectivity. It was only after we'd done all that that I mentioned (and, in fact, demonstrated) that my laptops were too far away to reach the Ethernet cable and that I'd be connecting through WiFi. At that point, they warned me that in that case the router would need to be swapped with a newer one. In fact, I just remembered something else. After they connected me to the old router, I immediately ran a Speedtest which came up with some rather bad numbers, relatively speaking, in comparison to the promised 50/25 tier:




To do them justice, however, they had warned me that the router would need to be changed and that I wouldn't get good WiFi numbers on the old router BEFORE I ran that test. The only reason why I ran that test was because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting in range of the 50/25 speeds (keep in mind that I had no idea how lucky I was to be offered that new router free of charge).

I suspect it was actually seeing that I wouldn't be able to connect through Ethernet that may have helped persuade them to offer me the new router.

Of course, after they swapped out the router, I ran another test, and experienced the expected improvement:




I have since maxed it out, by switching to an individual channel rather than Auto in the router settings:




After a lot of testing, it turns out that one of the non-recommended channels, 4, has been the most consistently speedy of my channels (even though most experts usually recommend 1, 6 and/or 11); go figure.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to bshubinsky

Well if you guys keep demanding new routers every time a new rev comes out , then they are simply going to start charging a monthly fee for them.

You can go buy a $30-$40 WAP that will blow away the AT any day of the week.

They first thing I did was put the AT in the basement serving up Netflix and the like (which doesn't require high speed) and put a new $39 one on the main level which does 2.4 and 5 simultaneously.

Once you go above 50/25 wireless is sketch anyways for hitting those maximum speeds, so it's diminishing returns..


FactChecker
Premium
join:2008-06-03
reply to afya

Why bother with an N... Go AC for $80

»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···7&cm_sp=
--
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

1 edit
reply to criggs

said by criggs:

My first reaction was yes, that is an important distinction. But, on reflection, I think it's useful to point out that in my case I already had the old bad router, as a result of having FIOS TV installed fourteen months ago

The fact that Verizon sent a truck roll they considered your internet installation as new. I also believe since almost all new installations are 50/25 at least since it's what's being advertised as part of the triple play, Verizon installs rev. I for new subscribers in NYC. When they installed mine last March, AT rev. I was installed for me without asking for it. At that time I have no idea of what's the different revisions, all I know is they have wireless routers.


bluepoint

join:2001-03-24
reply to elefante72

said by elefante72:

Once you go above 50/25 wireless is sketch anyways for hitting those maximum speeds, so it's diminishing returns..

I respectfully disagree. Newer AC wireless routers can hit more than 1G or other N wireless can go up to 800Mbps when used @5GHz band using 40-80MHz width channels. For 2.4GHz band 90Mbps is achievable @20MHz width not unless you have a clean environment and you can set channels at 40MHz width then 150Mbps is achievable. In actuality wireless AP depends on the router's processor speed, radio power output, drivers and antenna design, that's why there is a saying not all are equal.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

1 edit

I didn't say it wasn't possible, I just said it was sketch. And to get AC speeds, you have to have AC clients.

In 2.4 you are not supposed to go to 40MHz channels if there are other adjacent APs out there, and to be certified this is the case.

In my neighborhood, I can pull in 15 different access points in 2.4, so there is no possibility of me doing 40 in 2.4.

And back in the day I worked on satellites and microwave so I'm familiar.

Take a look at the R6250 AC1600 (a top AC performer) review on smallnetbuilder. The 5Ghz requires AC clients though, and even using MIMO clients average 2.4 is only in the mid 50's... Also once you take into account attenuation 30dB the AC even with the flashy gear barely hit 100 Mbps, and 30 db atten is 1-2 walls and some distance.

# 1 for Average Wireless Throughput (1.3)
#2 for 2.4 GHz Downlink Throughput Avg. [57.275 Mbps]
#1 for 2.4 GHz Uplink Throughput Avg. [54.45 Mbps]
#1 for 5 GHz Downlink Throughput Avg. [184.825 Mbps]
#1 for 5 GHz Uplink Throughput Avg. [166.975 Mbps]

More realistically the person who is using the wifi is probably consuming video or something that decent buffering tech can deal with. Once you get into live streaming and HD (20 Mbps or more) in mpeg2 that can be a problem, but for the most part people won't notice a bit. It's more for a speedtest result.

My 5Ghz capable devices (new ipad, laptop, phones) can see my AC router through exactly 1 wall and on the same level as the router (1st floor). Anything over 1 wall or 30 feet and it's a failback to old 2.4 n....

The typical user won't know any better, and when you get to 75/35 or greater you really are pushing what most people have in their homes realistically, and this is where lots of service calls probably begin....



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

2 edits

said by elefante72:

I didn't say it wasn't possible, I just said it was sketch. And to get AC speeds, you have to have AC clients.

Although, it's sketchy in the 2.4GHz band 50Mbps can be easily be achieved up to 90Mbps @20MHz bandwidth, @40 width I won't bet since the band is noisy. It's a given, to get an AC speed you need an AC client to go both ways.

said by elefante72:

In 2.4 you are not supposed to go to 40MHz channels if there are other adjacent APs out there, and to be certified this is the case.

Yes, that's WIFI's specs, routers must auto negotiate down to 20MHz when there is another router within range(auto setting). However, there are routers that can be set statically @40MHz width and that the clueless owner thinks it's cool to hog many channels. These are what we call unfriendly clueless neighbor.

said by elefante72:

In my neighborhood, I can pull in 15 different access points in 2.4, so there is no possibility of me doing 40 in 2.4.

Absolutely correct. In my former house I get 58.

said by elefante72:

Take a look at the R6250 AC1600 (a top AC performer) review on smallnetbuilder. The 5Ghz requires AC clients though, and even using MIMO clients average 2.4 is only in the mid 50's... Also once you take into account attenuation 30dB the AC even with the flashy gear barely hit 100 Mbps, and 30 db atten is 1-2 walls and some distance.

# 1 for Average Wireless Throughput (1.3)
#2 for 2.4 GHz Downlink Throughput Avg. [57.275 Mbps]
#1 for 2.4 GHz Uplink Throughput Avg. [54.45 Mbps]
#1 for 5 GHz Downlink Throughput Avg. [184.825 Mbps]
#1 for 5 GHz Uplink Throughput Avg. [166.975 Mbps]

More realistically the person who is using the wifi is probably consuming video or something that decent buffering tech can deal with. Once you get into live streaming and HD (20 Mbps or more) in mpeg2 that can be a problem, but for the most part people won't notice a bit. It's more for a speedtest result.

My 5Ghz capable devices (new ipad, laptop, phones) can see my AC router through exactly 1 wall and on the same level as the router (1st floor). Anything over 1 wall or 30 feet and it's a failback to old 2.4 n....

The typical user won't know any better, and when you get to 75/35 or greater you really are pushing what most people have in their homes realistically, and this is where lots of service calls probably begin....

The speeds you are referring to at smallnetbuilder does not reflect the true speed at an ideal distance. What Tim H. shows in the tests are throughput at attenuation 60dB therefore the test was done at the weakest point of his environment. So the speed reflected were the minimum speed you can achieve from a certain distance. My laptop gets 70dB from the RT-N66 @5GHz band and 55dB @2.4GHz both showing full strength according to windows wireless manager from where I sit, can get 58/39Mbps easily. Tim's test is already weak at 60dB.
»www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···?start=3
Best to look for is how much "connection speed" you are getting from a wireless router as you will only get 50% to 70% of that connection. Distance, noise, wireless hardwares will determine how much a specific client can achieve a steady connection.