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nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium Member
join:2002-05-31
AZ

nightdesigns to howardfine

Premium Member

to howardfine

Re: Computers for Home/Small Business

said by howardfine:

Just buy a Mac.

Pass. I also work in TV and use Macs daily for video work. They have higher hardware fail rates of any PC that I've used. If you aren't on applecare, repairs are a fortune. The OS does not integrate well into Windows networks at all. And basically, if you come across a problem, they make it like you don't know what they're doing instead of fixing the issue.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

said by nightdesigns:

They have higher hardware fail rates of any PC that I've used.

Consumer Reports says that's not true based on thousands of surveys of its paid subscribers as I quoted. That's been true for the past 10 years.
said by nightdesigns:

The OS does not integrate well into Windows networks at all.

Windows networks don't integrate well with any others, either. What use do you have for one?
said by nightdesigns:

if you come across a problem, they make it like you don't know what they're doing instead of fixing the issue.

Again, that flies in the face of what Consumer Reports has found for the past 10 years or more.

Professionally, I own a web dev company and all our freelancers use Macs. Almost all our clients use Macs. My son has one. I have three iPads and one iPhone for the company. I've never had or heard of any issues that you speak of.

I used to work in TV and radio (and film) years ago.

nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium Member
join:2002-05-31
AZ

nightdesigns

Premium Member

All of these issues happened 1-2 years after purchase.

G5 circa 2004. Memory issue, confirmed by third party. Apple refused to acknowledge the problem and repair. Failed monitor after 1 year.

Mac Pro circa 2006 - Failed Hard drive, Failed Monitor

iMac Circa 2006 - Random lines on screen. Known issue, Failed Hard Drive

iMac Circa 2008 - DVD recorder failed, replaced under apple care warranty ($700!), failed again a year later.

Mac Pro Circa 2008 - Both DVD recorders have failed, Ram issue, video card failure.

On all systems, frequent OS/finder crashes, spinning wheels, lots of issues with file transfers between systems and SAN. OS 10.8 has an issue with SMB to windows shares with the reading of directories being very slow. Worked fine on 10.6, reformatted to 10.8 on 2 systems, and it's very slow now.

And a big one: we were a Final Cut house and they ended that software and replaced it with something inferior. We've fully switched to adobe. And because that software is cross platform, we will be moving to PCs on our next upgrade round.

Oh, and the yearly OS release cycle drives us and our IT folks crazy. Most software only supports 2 releases.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

Your last two issues are software related and not hardware. Actually, your Final Cut issue is not a failure but you don't like the new version. Yes, I know a lot of people didn't like the new version.

The rest of your problems, I don't know. I only know I've never heard anyone ever say they had a lot of problems with them and I deal with a lot of Mac users. Plus CR has rated them #1 in every category for over 10 years including reliability. So that can only make me think it's your location or business that had issues.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707

Premium Member

said by howardfine:

Plus CR has rated them #1 in every category for over 10 years including reliability. So that can only make me think it's your location or business that had issues.

I once made a comment in the automotive forum here about seeing a lot of Honda/Acura vehicles that smoke excessively, especially on take off. I was curious what, if any, Honda/Acura or related vehicle I should avoid. You know what I was told? "Honda's don't smoke." Soooooo, every one I see must be an illusion? Whatever.

The moral of that story is don't put 100% stock in a single source. Yes CR tends to be one of the more reliable sources, I've used them when shopping for a new TV or vehicles. I don't consider them to be THE source to go to though as they tend to get hung up on things and ignore others as if they have blinders on. Case in point, I read one of their "must have tablet accessories" list. Key word there: tablet. You know what EVERY item in their list worked on (and only worked on)? The damn iPad. Sorry, but the iPad is NOT the only tablet in the world and IMO not even the best.

As for his issue with Mac in general, maybe it is his location. We don't know what his location is like. It could be a dusty, hot, damp environment and otherwise horrible for a PC (or a human lol). I don't see how the business itself could be the issue, please explain.
said by howardfine:

Windows networks don't integrate well with any others, either. What use do you have for one?

I'm curious what you're getting at here. It appears you are asking him why he runs a Windows network? Why does it matter anyway? He apparently runs a Windows based network and you want him to change everything because they don't integrate well with others? Seems kinda presumptuous to me, if that's really what you're getting at.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

Too often people complain that a Mac or Linux computer doesn't run a particular Windows program as if it was a fault while ignoring the fact that Windows computers don't run a lot of Mac and Linux programs but that's not a fault.

Hondas don't smoke and I've had a few of those.
said by JoelC707:

Yes CR tends to be one of the more reliable sources

That's my whole point. They do far more testing/analyzing/surveying than any other source so their statements should carry a lot of weight. You'll find people on this board who will diss CR and say it's untrusted, unverified, unreliable, etc., and, instead, will rely on comments here from anonymous posters.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707

Premium Member

said by howardfine:

Hondas don't smoke and I've had a few of those.

Genius...
said by howardfine:

They do far more testing/analyzing/surveying than any other source so their statements should carry a lot of weight.

What skills or training do these people have to perform this testing? Let's take the Mac vs. PC thing. Are they a bunch of Mac users who dislike the PC? Are they a bunch of PC users who have never used a Mac before? Neither one is a good sign for proper testing. Do they hire in a bunch of temps that come from different backgrounds and can be objective in their analysis?
said by howardfine:

You'll find people on this board who will diss CR and say it's untrusted, unverified, unreliable, etc., and, instead, will rely on comments here from anonymous posters.

I'm not saying to ignore them and I sure don't put more stock in anon posters here or elsewhere. What I am saying is don't put 100% stock in them (or any one source, no matter how reliable). If that one source says one thing and every other source says the opposite, which one do you think is probably right?

To be honest, you can argue that CR (or insert any other favorite source) ranks Mac better than PC until you are blue in the face. Personal experience overrides anything testing methodology indicates. Let me give you another example. I don't know how CR ranks HP laptops but I have had nothing but problems out of every single HP laptop I have owned or known about through friends/relatives. Because of that experience with them, I flat out refuse to buy another HP laptop.
said by howardfine:

Too often people complain that a Mac or Linux computer doesn't run a particular Windows program as if it was a fault while ignoring the fact that Windows computers don't run a lot of Mac and Linux programs but that's not a fault.

True, that's not the right way to make comparisons and it's not a fair comparison but I think I understand WHY those comparisons are made. Through the use of WINE, Linux (and possibly Mac) can run Windows programs. The results of this are of course hit or miss and is honestly a fault of WINE, not Linux or Mac.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

said by JoelC707:

What skills or training do these people have to perform this testing?

About CR
iirc, they have a few PhD computer scientists on staff.
said by JoelC707:

Personal experience overrides anything testing methodology indicates.

That's why they do an annual survey of their subscribers, all who pay for the magazine. The survey never asks for opinion but asks questions like, "Did you ever get this fixed?" and "How much did it cost you to get it fixed?". There are one million surveys returned.
said by JoelC707:

I have had nothing but problems out of every single HP laptop I have owned

CR agrees with you and downgrades mostly for poor performance.

Wily_One
Premium Member
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA

Wily_One

Premium Member

said by howardfine:

iirc, they have a few PhD computer scientists on staff.

If you're trying to make the point that they have no real world expertise or experience in operations, then you have succeeded! LOL.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

Of course not. They need people who understand the science of computers just like they have scientists for all the sciences such as medicine. The testing labs are for comparing what one computer does against another. That's where usability engineers are.

Apparently you've never looked at CR before. CR has 8 million paid subscribers. You should get a copy.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 edit

dave to howardfine

Premium Member

to howardfine
said by howardfine:

Too often people complain that a Mac or Linux computer doesn't run a particular Windows program as if it was a fault while ignoring the fact that Windows computers don't run a lot of Mac and Linux programs but that's not a fault.

Too often people get on a hobby-horse about one OS or another, forgetting that business computers are generally purchased to run particular applications.

If the OP's looking at Windows systems, I suspect it's because that's what he needs.

In summary, the proper order is to first choose the software you want to run, then figure out what you can run it on.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

said by dave:

If the OP's looking at Windows systems, I suspect it's because that's what he needs.

He's never said a Windows system is what he needs nor that any other OS is out of the running.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

He has been buying Dells. I'd say he needs Windows.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine

Member

His only reason for not choosing a Mac was his employer had problems with them, not because he needs Windows.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Well, that and the stated suboptimal interoperation with Windows networks, which probably tells you he has a Windows network.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit

howardfine

Member

That doesn't mean he needs a Windows network, which is why I asked if he really needed that.

He was looking for a better built computer which Apple products are. Whether he needs Windows networking, or anything that's Windows-only, is up to him to decide, but he did not say, in his posts, that he couldn't use Apple Macs.

Too many times people just jump on the Windows bandwagon .... just because... without considering Apple products. Most of the time I'd bet he'd be just as well served, if not better.