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Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA
reply to Mele20

Re: A Tale of Two Browsers: Chrome v. Chromium

said by Mele20:

"Chrome has an auto-update feature, while Chromium does not. That remains an advantage for using Chrome rather than Chromium on Windows and Mac platforms as well."

That's NOT an advantage! It's a distinct and serious DISadvantage. That's why Iron browser exists.

What? It is a huge plus. The VAST majority of computer users never update anything, so having your browser auto update to the latest version with the latest security fixes is a disadvantage? How?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

3 recommendations

Of course, one wants CONTROL over updating! Plus, it is a gross privacy violation to not be able to turn OFF the auto updating.

I have always advocated that people learn how to use a computer before getting one. If they can't be bothered well....too bad. Actually, licensing should be required of all after passing a test/required standardized course proving they know how to use a computer and how to keep it secure. I didn't know anything myself and I took classes for a whole year when I was in my 50's and ONLY after that did I purchase my first computer. I certainly didn't stop learning then either. Learning about a computer is a ongoing process that will end only in my death (or when they get dumbed down by Microsoft and Google to the point that I just leave the internet and computers in disgust).

If most folks can't be bothered then why are they even buying computers? What they need is a device for the technologically challenged who refuse to learn. They should buy Apple products as those products are designed for computer dummies (and why I would never buy anything from Apple). Microsoft is currently trying hard to dumb down Windows now so that only computer dummies will ever want a "computer" (device that does Facebook, Twitter and Youtube with anything else irrelevant) in the future. Damn shame but this is what happens when something that only a small percentage of the population had becomes something almost everyone has...it's ruined by its eventual "popularity".

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

3 recommendations

Damn shame but this is what happens when something that only a small percentage of the population had becomes something almost everyone has...it's ruined by its eventual "popularity".

I agree, but I have one question: when exactly did you first want to use a networked computer? If it was after the early 1980s, then I thiink you're a part of the popularity problem.

That's tongue-in-cheek, but I do mean to point out it's all relative, and since you're a non-computer-professional, you're surely one of the johnny-come-latelies from where I sit.

Or, in serious summary, I think that your elitism is uncalled-for. You're confusing current necessity with moral virtue.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Dr Tweak
It's a plus for the average user who doesn't know any better.

It's annoying for more savvy users, for whom unscheduled updates might break things.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


DownTheShore
RIP tmpchaos
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:14
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
said by sivran:

It's a plus for the average user who doesn't know any better.

It's annoying for more savvy users, for whom unscheduled updates might break things.

+1

I prefer to update most software myself, so if any problems surface it's easier to trace back the cause.

But when I've set up software for friends/family, I always set it to auto-update because I know that they won't think to do it themselves.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.



ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
quote:
I prefer to update most software myself, so if any problems surface it's easier to trace back the cause.

But when I've set up software for friends/family, I always set it to auto-update because I know that they won't think to do it themselves.
Yup exactly what I do with my customers also........if there are any problems it's easy enough to reverse the process.

But it saves me updating their machines constantly.
--

Remember our Vets~

PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:7
Reviews:
·localphone.com
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
reply to DownTheShore
The problem with "Iron" browser (Chromium) goes beyond the fact that it does not have auto-update.

I never use auto-updates anyway.

No---the problem with Iron is that there is NO update, not even manual, and NO notification of updates.

You have to go to the Iron website every so often and see if there's a new version, which has to be downloaded in full.

I've found both the aggressively stripped-down "Iron" and the somewhat stripped-down "Google Chrome" to both have so many annoyances that I have gone back to Pale Moon, an optimized version of Mozilla Firefox which supports all the FF extensions.


TheJoker
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2001-04-26
Charlottesville, VA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

reply to sivran
said by sivran:

It's a plus for the average user who doesn't know any better.

It's annoying for more savvy users, for whom unscheduled updates might break things.

I never, ever install or update anything without first making a full image backup. Anything less puts you in the position of having to figure out how to fix it when something eventually does go wrong with an install or update, and you may end up losing everything between the present back to your most recent backup. Backup, backup, backup.

And image backups need to be stored not just on a different partition, but on a separate physical hard drive. Partition your hard drive into two partition, your OS and a second data backup partition, save the backup images to the second partition, and when the hard drive crashes, you loose not just your installation, but your backups as well.
--
Proud ASAP member since 2005
Microsoft MVP/Consumer Security 2009-2010


Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

.....Plus, it is a gross privacy violation to not be able to turn OFF the auto updating.

I have always advocated that people learn how to use a computer before getting one. If they can't be bothered well....too bad.

Mmmm, easy to turn off, can be done by the task scheduler, services or simply with Microsoft's Autoruns. But you already knew that because you know how to use your computer, right?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
I have never used Chrome but what I have read is that it is impossible to stop auto updating (except via Process Guard which is only for XP or another HIPS and I wouldn't be surprised that if ProcessGuard stopped it that Chrome would crash and crash and crash....that is what happens if you try to control Flash plugins in Fx or SeaMonkey via an HIPS. It is forbidden by Mozilla and the browsers crash so all you can do to stop the plugins from running on any webpage with Flash content is to disable Flash plugin and never ever use it on those browsers...pretty sick attitude from Mozilla that claims user privacy is important. Those Flash plugins should NEVER start unless and until the user expressly clicks on a Flash movie on a page (of course they have Click to Play Manager installed so flash can never start until permission is given and that is when the plugins should load not ever before so Fx and SeaMonkey are also guilty of trying to rob the user of privacy).

As for Chrome,this inability to turn off auto updating of Chrome is why Iron came to be. I certainly don't see how the methods you have mentioned would work. Google did everything possible to make it impossible to turn off auto updating of Chrome which alone should tell any sensible person that they should avoid Chrome. I would never install Chrome because by the very act of installing it Google has won and you have lost your privacy. I doubt if it has a service that does the updating that can be disabled in Services since Google wishes to be evil with Chrome so they have done everything they can to stop a user from having any privacy. Again, this is why Iron was created. I can stop IE 10 from auto updating Flash but I read that is impossible to do with Chrome because Chrome is designed to strip all privacy from the users.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA

6 recommendations

said by Mele20:

I have never used Chrome but what I have read is that it is impossible to stop auto updating

As for Chrome,this inability to turn off auto updating of Chrome is why Iron came to be. I certainly don't see how the methods you have mentioned would work.... I doubt if it has a service that does the updating that can be disabled in Services since Google wishes to be evil with Chrome so they have done everything they can to stop a user from having any privacy. Again, this is why Iron was created. I can stop IE 10 from auto updating Flash but I read that is impossible to do with Chrome because Chrome is designed to strip all privacy from the users.

Stop spreading FUD, if you don't know something don't state it as fact, just because you read it somewhere doesn't mean it's true. Google's auto update can easily be disabled but why not have the latest security updates? That's the whole point of auto updates. SWare Iron was not created because of the auto-update feature, it was created for better privacy. If you want privacy then stay off the internet, you are tracked by your ISP, search engines, browser, websites, operating system and the list goes on. What privacy are you looking for? Seriously, the tin foil hat routine is old, everyone is not out to get you or even care what you are doing. Better stop posting here because I can read your profile and see who your ISP is, I know all the programs you use because you post about them all the time and I know where you live because you post it........ but you are worried about privacy?


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
said by Dr Tweak:

Google's auto update can easily be disabled

Don't you think a link to some instructions would be appropriate here?

said by Dr Tweak:

If you want privacy then stay off the internet, you are tracked by your ISP, ...

Please stop spreading FUD. If Google does it, it doesn't mean that my ISP does it too
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA

1 recommendation

said by OZO:

Don't you think a link to some instructions would be appropriate here?

Already gave them.....

said by Dr Tweak:

Mmmm, easy to turn off, can be done by the task scheduler, services or simply with Microsoft's Autoruns....


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
It's like a suggestion - "use your computer to stop it"...
Do you know how to do it with the browser itself?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Dr Tweak
Iron was created for privacy. What the heck do you think privacy is on the internet? You have ZERO idea what privacy is if you can claim that auto updating does not affect privacy. Geez....you are the one who should stop spreading FUD.

What does auto updating have to do with getting the latest security updates? NOTHING. Autoupdating was created to invade privacy with the FUD being spread that it would make using a computer simple. Yeah, it does that at the expense of the user's privacy. It was designed to lure lazy Windows users who refuse to take responsibility and learn how to use a Windows computer properly and safely. It was and is an Apple approach to computer security with a walled garden totally controlled by Microsoft as the goal. That goal is being realized today with Windows 8 but there is still the ability, albeit with some difficulty, to resist the Microsoft walled garden. But you seem to think everyone is crazy if they resist Microsoft's, Google's, etc attempts to destroy any privacy they have. Windows 8.1 was released to further force users into a walled garden and to prepare them for Windows itself becoming a cloud only monthly rental product.

I have the latest security updates for my browsers and for Windows 8. I keep Windows Updates disabled in Services. I do not use Windows Updates since 2004. I take the Microsoft Security Bulletin email service (and a bunch of Microsoft newsletters). I use Microsoft download center each month to manually download to disk each patch. I then do not stupidly install all patches at once. I am not interested in a hang that may not resolve itself. I enable Windows Update Service only long enough to install 2-4 patches at a time then I disable it again and I used the computer for awhile so that if there is a problem with a patch I can identify which patch quickly. Plus, I like to know when then are going to take place. I hate rudeness of Microsoft or browsers or mail clients, etc suddenly deciding to update right then and require a disruption in whatever I am doing and a reboot that may hang Windows for 15-30 minutes (had that happen twice recently on Win 8) or maybe many hours if I am unlucky jand require booting to SafeMode which is difficult on Windows 8 unless one has fixed it with trparky See Profile method so that when I boot now I have a choice on my screen of boot to safe mode (this is essential to have) . After I manually install Windows patches, I use Belarc Advisor to see if I missed any. Some minor ones I choose to not install if they are reported as problematic (this, of course, is after I have researched each patch).

As for Flash and Java, again, I read the Security forum here several times DAILY and have since I joined this site in 2001. The reason I joined this site was for the Security forum. So, I know when there is a new Flash or Java version. I don't even allow IE 10 with builtin flash to update it from Windows Update. I download the latest Flash for IE 10 Windows 8 64 and 32 bit via Microsoft download center and manually install it. It not necessary to have all patches either. My XP Pro computer runs Service Pack 2 BY CHOICE. I didn't like some changes in SP 3 when it was released and I tried it on one of my virtual machines so I reverted that machine and never installed it at all on my host machine. I have ProcessGuard on that machine to protect it and to afford me proper control over programs and even Windows.

It's laughable that you claim to know all the programs I use and even more laughable that you think you know anything truly important about me. Besides, you are not Google or Microsoft or Facebook or Twitter so even if you did know something about me that has little to do with my privacy on the Internet. I don't think you understand about privacy on the net.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA

5 recommendations

I don't even know what to say except that your sheer ignorance is astounding.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Mele20
You don't know how to prevent unscheduled updates without disabling the WU service?

Also, stop spreading FUD.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
I think you've been long enough in this forum to know that some windows updates don't honor user settings and install themselves anyway. We've already discussed it here. The only solution, if you want to protect it from happening, is to disable WU service...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...
Expand your moderator at work