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XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL

Psycho Host House AP Refusing to let me get equipment off roof HELP

Internet is down at her house and she wont let me there to fix it.

Hey guys, not sure if I will get a response in time but I have a customer who has AP equipment on their house and supplies the surrounding 30 homes with service. The previous people who lived there were awesome, but these people who bought the house are total weirdos.

We have been there 3 times in the last 3 years and she is now saying that she will not let me on the property to fix it. I don't understand at all why she is doing this and said that if I come on her property, she will call the police.

This is one of our few remaining homes that we have AP equipment on because of weird situations like this. Regardless of the fact that its on a home, we need to do something and do it today.

Not only do I have to wire up another home(there are no other options in this area without having to re-aim tons of antennas or remount them on different parts of their roofs) that is nearby. A few of her neighbors say that I can do it on their house and that she is definitely a weird neighbor and no one talks to her.

Should I just go there anyway and get it off the house? I need the equipment because I don't have an extra set of that equipment to install on the neighbors? Should I bring the police there?

I feel that even if I bring the police there, there is nothing that will force her to let me get the equipment off of her roof. She could say take me to court and that will do nothing for me today.

If she calls the police and says I told him he can't go on the roof and he did anyway, can I really be arrested for the equipment that I own?

Also, I'm sure many of you may think you know what to do, but can you give references or personal experience to back up your response?

Is there any type of Federal law that trumps local laws regarding this type of situation. Ex- the retrieval of a CPE/AP from a customers location. Let me know and thanks in advance.

Cyber Monday is tomorrow and I need to relocate this equipment today.



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL

Please can someone state a law that allows me to come out there and get my equipment.



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband

If not, I'm going to just go out there and off her $100 to let me keep it up there the rest of the month, if not the week and as a last resort $100 just to let me remove the equipment.


jimbouse

join:2011-10-01
Bryan, TX

Did you have a contract with her/previous landlord?

I would abandon until you can consult with the local police. Explain the situation and ask what recourse you have.



treichhart

join:2006-12-12
reply to XLBroadband

well technically you have rights to get the equipment but call up an police officer and explain the issue to him and ask him to go with you to get the equipment. Then I would cancel any services to this lady for failure to fix the equipment at the time of the repair.



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband

contract with previous owner, but we failed to update it with the new owner. I talked to my other WISP owner/mentor and he said we do not have any rights.

Its like if my dog went on to the neighbors property, I have no right to go on their property to retrieve my dog. Doesn't matter that it's mine.

I am going to just be nice and offer her $100. Hope she bites.



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband

Feel free to keep the answers coming. Hearing some good advice now will really help. If I don't respond right away forgive me. I'm going to be pretty busy, but I will be checking responses. Thanks so much guys!


prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2

did your contract not have a clause that says something to the effect that it gets transfered under a sale?

Why's she being so crazy?



treichhart

join:2006-12-12
reply to XLBroadband

If the lady doesnt let you on the property to take down the equipment charge her for the equipment or put an equipment fee on her bill per month. If she dont pay turn her butt off and never service her again. Then your going have to disconnect the ap from the net then your just going have to setup an new ap some where else. May I ask what kind of equipment are your using for AP? if its Ubnt you can get omni and rocket under 300 dollars now if its 3 sectors and 3 rockets your looking at 650.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to prairiesky

said by prairiesky:

did your contract not have a clause that says something to the effect that it gets transfered under a sale?

My tower contracts all contain this kind of language for exactly this reason. Granted that doesn't necessarily give you permanent access, so a legal easement would be a good additional thing to have since that can be permanent regardless of who owns the property.

Either way, even our simple customer agreements state that they agree to give us access to come retrieve any equipment which we own. I have been in a similar situation once where the customer said he wouldn't let me onto the property to retrieve my antenna. I called a friend of mine who is an officer in a neighboring town, and he said that contract or not, if it is my property, I have legal rights to retrieve it assuming I didn't leave it long enough to be considered abandoned. He also said if the owner was being difficult, to just ask for a police escort to ensure things didn't get out of hand, and to have a witness there just in case.

If I were you, I'd call the police, tell them it is not emergency but is a matter of urgency, and ask them if someone would be available to accompany you while you get property off of the roof. In the end, it doesn't really matter what the law says if a police officer is willing to assist you in getting the job done. She could sue you, but that would require more time and money than she'd probably be willing to spend on the issue. It's easy to threaten it, but the reality is that it's usually just an idle threat. The bark is typically worse than the bite, so to speak.

Porch

join:2005-06-19
reply to XLBroadband

You didn't get a contract with the new owners, so you screwed up.

The only thing you can do today as to get another AP up and get as many clients pointed to it as you can. Even if it's only temporary.

As for the crazy, call the cops, show them the paperwork and the situation. With them there, she might let you come in and take the equipment off the roof.

Next to that, you can sue her in small clams court for the cost of the equipment or file a lean against the home.



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband

So I went to her house with a couple other respected customers of mine in her neighborhood(who are also without internet) and we were able to get it off no problem. I also called one of my police officer customers and he was going to have his other officer friend who is on duty come out and help talk some sense into her. Turns out she was reasonable and let me get the equipment off her house.

A good lesson that I need to make sure all of my paperwork is up to date letting them know I have the right to get equipment off of their house. But in the end, even if I have paperwork in place, my officer friend said that if they don't want me on their property, they don't have to let me.

I had backup equipment on hand (except for the omni), but I was hoping to retrieve the equipment today and I'm glad that I did.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

Have a great rest of the weekend. Now I'm going to go and re-aim a bunch of homes.



treichhart

join:2006-12-12

1 recommendation

reply to XLBroadband

well you can come back and bill her for the equipment if she didnt allow you to be on her property you do have that right.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

Not sure I understand how you can bill someone that you don't have any type of contract with.



treichhart

join:2006-12-12
reply to XLBroadband

its very simple you own the equipment and they simply refuse let you come get the equipment so you have rights to bill the person who is holding the equipment.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

I don't think it's that simple. The property changed owners and the contract was with the original owner. If there wasn't a legal easement or other method to legally tie the contract to the property, then the person to bill or collect from is the original owner who is a signator of the contract.



54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

said by robbin:

I don't think it's that simple. The property changed owners and the contract was with the original owner. If there wasn't a legal easement or other method to legally tie the contract to the property, then the person to bill or collect from is the original owner who is a signator of the contract.

Quite true, question though, considering that location is serving other subscribers would it not also be possible for the current property owner to actually charge the WISP rent for allowing the equipment to remain up there?

I know if I acquired a property and found someone co-located on my roof and I didn't have a lease with them, the owner of the equipment would soon be notified to remove the equipment after providing me with a certificate of liability and workers compensation insurance or sign and return the enclosed lease to me with a rent check and a certificate of insurance naming me as a co-insured...

raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
reply to XLBroadband

Our contract is quite simple
- 5 years
- We pay annual rent to the land owner
- If they sell, the lease agreement is to be transfered as part of that sale
- We start paying rent to the new land owner

Rent payments may be in the form of free internet.



54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

said by raytaylor:

Our contract is quite simple
- 5 years
- We pay annual rent to the land owner
- If they sell, the lease agreement is to be transfered as part of that sale
- We start paying rent to the new land owner

Rent payments may be in the form of free internet.

The only problem with that is if the new owner refuses to accept the transfer of the lease, then you are stuck with moving your gear (maybe under duress) and trying to collect on a default from whoever signed the lease.

Chele

join:2003-07-23
kudos:1
reply to XLBroadband

We have a slightly different arrangement: we have no contracts, just a "gentlemen's agreement". They are free to ask us to remove the equipment at any time. In twelve years we have only had an issue with one new property owner that wanted an outrageous monthly amount. He had been told how much cellular companies paid for their sites, and he wanted a similar amount.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to raytaylor

said by raytaylor:

Our contract is quite simple
- 5 years
- We pay annual rent to the land owner
- If they sell, the lease agreement is to be transfered as part of that sale
- We start paying rent to the new land owner

Rent payments may be in the form of free internet.

I would question a "simple" contract that requires the lease agreement to be transferred with the sale. Unless the contract is legally tied to the property then it could get messy. If the contract wasn't transferred as a part of the closing then it seems the recourse for the WISP is with the original property owner who signed the contract. Paying the new property owner certainly could be a part of proof that the new owner recognized the contract, but having canceled rent checks would probably make more of an impact in court than just free Internet.


DaDawgs
Premium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA
reply to XLBroadband

Mischief managed.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to XLBroadband

Contract or not, you own the equipment and you do have rights to go get it. A simple analogy would be that you loaned a friend your car, they drove it home, sold their house, and didn't bring your car back to you. The new property owner doesn't have the right to keep it, and they can't keep you from getting it back, but they can make it difficult.

It sounds like you have this situation figured out, but it would be very smart to update all of your contracts and try to get something signed from the owner at each AP location to prevent this from happening again. It might not prevent someone from throwing a fit, but at least you have paperwork to back up your claims. It wouldn't necessarily be totally unreasonable to also get a recorded easement on file, but that might be extreme for a rooftop. A real tower would be a different case.


gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL

1 recommendation

reply to XLBroadband

1: transfers of leases don't automatically exist. They pretty well don't exist because a new party can't be held liable with out their specific consent.
2: said property may be yours, but you don't have automatic claim to that property. Not to the effect that you can go on their property and just grab it. (NOT in this case) Nope, that will get you arrested and the courts will figure it out later.

Now if you did have an agreement with THIS person, things are different. YOU could have called the cops and gotten your equipment back.

At the end of the day the courts will figure it all out. And if that's equal to the cost of an omni, BH, and some other associated stuff have at it....

I HATE repeaters or sites like this. It's almost always messy. And when it does get messy, it gets messy.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net



XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL

Interesting responses. Luckily it all worked out yes. Contracts are great and recommended, but unless I have an easement(which is definitely overkill for a rooftop site), I can't do anything instantly if I want to get the equipment off the same day.

Of course I can take her to court via a civil matter or bill her for the equipment. Luckily she is the only weirdo we have as a landowner. Every single other owner is very cool and I consider them a friend.

Either way, I will be making sure my paperwork is updated with everyone.

All in all today wasn't that bad, I re-aimed 5 homes and everyone else has signals in the 50's and 60's so I'm in good shape until tomorrow.

Thanks again for your responses.

Hope you all had a nice Thanksgiving.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to gunther_01

said by gunther_01:

transfers of leases don't automatically exist. They pretty well don't exist because a new party can't be held liable with out their specific consent.

While that is technically true, the contracts can be written so that the current person signing the agreement agrees to ensure that the contract must get transferred to the new owner in order for them to sell the property. That way if they sell and didn't inform the buyer of the stipulations of the existing agreement and require them to assume the agreement as part of the deal, the seller can be held liable for whatever happens. But that would take a lawsuit to straighten out, so you cross your fingers that they follow the terms of what they are signing.

said by gunther_01:

Now if you did have an agreement with THIS person, things are different. YOU could have called the cops and gotten your equipment back.

Even without an agreement in place with the new homeowner, you can still call the police and ask for an escort to go retrieve equipment on their property which belongs to you. A police presence is usually all it takes to resolve these kinds of issues.

That's not to say that it will always work. If the property owner says you are lying and the equipment belongs to them, then you may be looking at a lawsuit to sort it out, but I'd say that rarely happens except in extreme situations.


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband

I agree, a police officer will definitely help persuade and speed things up.


gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL
reply to XLBroadband

Sorry, but in the case of law, "technically" is going to be the only thing that matters.

You can't draft something that includes someone else that isn't party to the discussion. While you can put it in there, it won't hold up in court. Not too mention who are you going to sue, and why?

The real problem would be the current owner, but you would have to sue the old owner. You will get laughed out of court. Pretty much, just check the endings on most legal documents. You will find that some things continue on and others do not. In almost all cases, legal documents actually have clauses that indemnify in case of a sale of assets or property locations. Even the entire company being sold. I"m pretty sure in IL, you are S.O.L if you don't list specifically the new owner by name. And well, you aren't going to know who that is.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

I'm thinking you might be misunderstanding the point I'm trying to make, but it's late, I need sleep, and it really doesn't matter since this he got his issue resolved, so I'm going to call it quits on this discussion at least for now. Good night!


raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
reply to XLBroadband

I am in no way binding a property buyer or 3rd party to honour a contract with me.

I am simply saying to the seller, they must include in their agreement that the 3rd party will continue the lease as part of their sale/purchase agreement. Its between them. Otherwise they cannot sell the property to the buyer if the buyer doesnt want to continue the lease.

If it came down to it, i would probably say fine - I'll move off if i have 3 months to do so. Most of my sites are in a paddock or on a hill so its not likley to be a problem