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joeblow3
join:2000-12-27
h0h0h0

joeblow3

Member

Curious (head shaking fact) Canadian bridges under federal jurisdicti

Here's a list of bridges in Canada that come under federal jurisdiction:

International
Blue Water Bridge
Peace Bridge *
Sault Ste. Marie International Bridge *
Seaway International Bridge
Thousand Islands Bridge *

(ok I understand these, border crossing)

Interprovincial
Confederation Bridge
(ok again I understand, major bridge to PEI)

Intraprovincial
Champlain Bridge
Champlain Bridge Ice Control Structure
Honoré-Mercier Bridge
Jacques Cartier Bridge
Melocheville Tunnel
New Bridge for the St. Lawrence (replacing the Champlain Bridge in 2018)

Now why is it that ALL the intraprovincial ones are ALL in Quebec? Guess there are no bridges in BC, Ontario, NS, etc...

The Champlain Bridge will be replaced starting in 2018 to the tune of $5 BILLION Canadian tax payers money.

Why is the rest of Canada paying to Quebec's bridges? The rest of Canada kissing the ass of th Quebec province.

Yes I understand that there could be federal money available to provinces when replacing infrastructure BUT the province and the region also contributes to the building.

But in the case of Intraprovincial Federal money is used 100% and they are all in Quebec.

Quebec sucking the Federal money STILL.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC
·TELUS
Actiontec T3200M
Arcadyan WE410443-TS
Sipura SPA-2102

MacGyver

All of the bridges between Ottawa and Gatineau are also under the jurisdiction of the feds, except for the old Prince of Wales railroad bridge which although unused, has been transferred to the city of Ottawa for potential future transit use.

Does the fact that many of these structures cross the St. Lawrence Seaway have anything to do with them being under fed jurisdiction? There must be a reason.

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

1 edit

Thane_Bitter to joeblow3

Premium Member

to joeblow3
Joke: If they built them they would have collapsed already.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to MacGyver

to MacGyver
said by MacGyver:

All of the bridges between Ottawa and Gatineau are also under the jurisdiction of the feds, except for the old Prince of Wales railroad bridge which although unused, has been transferred to the city of Ottawa for potential future transit use.

My great grandfather was the chief engineer on the Interprovincial Bridge below Parliament Hill.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to MacGyver

Premium Member

to MacGyver
said by MacGyver:

Does the fact that many of these structures cross the St. Lawrence Seaway have anything to do with them being under fed jurisdiction? There must be a reason.

We have plenty of bridges and three tunnels here in the Niagara Region that all cross the Welland Canal, part of the St. Lawrence Seaway. None of them are under direct federal jurisdiction.

There's a road that runs along the west-side of the canal in St. Catharines and Thorold that is federal, though.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to joeblow3

to joeblow3
said by joeblow3:

Now why is it that ALL the intraprovincial ones are ALL in Quebec? Guess there are no bridges in BC, Ontario, NS, etc...

No.
quote:
Constitutionally, legislative authority over international and interprovincial bridges and tunnels fall with federal jurisdiction while intraprovincial structures fall within provincial jurisdiction. However, due to special circumstances at various times in the past, ownership of bridges is not always along constitutional lines.

The Champlain Bridge will be replaced starting in 2018 to the tune of $5 BILLION Canadian tax payers money.

Why is the rest of Canada paying to Quebec's bridges? The rest of Canada kissing the ass of th Quebec province.

Yes I understand that there could be federal money available to provinces when replacing infrastructure BUT the province and the region also contributes to the building.

But in the case of Intraprovincial Federal money is used 100% and they are all in Quebec.

Quebec sucking the Federal money STILL.

How about getting the facts, instead of launching on an anti-Quebec rant which borders on racism?

»www.tc.gc.ca/eng/program ··· -955.htm

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to joeblow3

Premium Member

to joeblow3
Are these currently or at any point in the past did these bridges carry railway traffic?

That would be a very simple and quick answer as to why they are owned by the feds.

joeblow3
join:2000-12-27
h0h0h0

joeblow3 to MacGyver

Member

to MacGyver
There are no other interprovincial bridges under federal jurisdiction as per this link
»www.tc.gc.ca/eng/program ··· -955.htm
joeblow3

joeblow3 to DKS

Member

to DKS
That is the facts

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to joeblow3

Premium Member

to joeblow3
said by joeblow3:

There are no other interprovincial bridges under federal jurisdiction as per this link
»www.tc.gc.ca/eng/program ··· -955.htm

Um, that list is exceedingly small and doesn't even include all international bridges, let alone interprovincial ones. If you're using this as a means to determine how many intraprovincial federal bridges there are, you're source is incomplete.

My guess is that the list only contains bridges that have projects underway at this time. Ones with nothing going on aren't listed.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by youneedhelp :

that bridge has many plaques on it. I m sure his name must be on one of them. I maybe cross it once a month. I ll take/post pics of the plaques if I remember next time I walk across it !

Look for the name John Wood.

ohTHEhorror
@videotron.ca

ohTHEhorror to Gone

Anon

to Gone
said by Gone:

Are these currently or at any point in the past did these bridges carry railway traffic?

That would be a very simple and quick answer as to why they are owned by the feds.

Only the Mercier and Victoria to my knowledge (and both do RR to this day).

Between the Champlain and Jacques Cartier bridges is the Victoria bridge, owned by CN, »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi ··· treal%29, but it's not even listed on the guys site that I saw.

After the Jacques Cartier Bridge is also the Lafontaine tunnel (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo ··· 93Tunnel), Again I didn't see it listed in the original post.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to joeblow3

to joeblow3
said by joeblow3:

That is the facts

No, you are basing your argument on foundational lies by involving Quebec. Please read your history for a better grasp of this issue.

joeblow3
join:2000-12-27
h0h0h0

joeblow3 to DKS

Member

to DKS
Where does racism fit into politics? Not sure perhaps you can tell us all. I am against the politics of Quebec.

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc to joeblow3

Member

to joeblow3
Click for full size
said by joeblow3:

The Champlain Bridge will be replaced starting in 2018 to the tune of $5 BILLION Canadian tax payers money.

The Chinese could probably build us a bridge at half the price and half the time.

As for reliability, it couldn't be any worse than this patch job performed on the Champlain bridge this weekend. And, yes, the strengthening beam is on TOP of the weakened span!

Kitlope
join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab

Kitlope

Member

said by milnoc:

The Chinese could probably build us a bridge at half the price and half the time.

Not hard to do considering they hire cheap labour and have no safety.

ohThe horror
@videotron.ca

ohThe horror to joeblow3

Anon

to joeblow3
Don't worry yourself over it. The Champlain bridge was paid for by Quebecers with the toll booths they had. Matter of fact we overpaid.

The fight now will be if the replacement for the Champlain will or won't have toll booths.

Also the fed bridges in Quebec is what brings many of your Ontario goods to you from both the maritimes, USA and Quebec. Check out the geography. If booths go up, it will be reflected in your cost of goods. So don't worry, you will pay for it twice, not once.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by ohThe horror :

Also the fed bridges in Quebec is what brings many of your Ontario goods to you from both the maritimes, USA and Quebec. Check out the geography. If booths go up, it will be reflected in your cost of goods. So don't worry, you will pay for it twice, not once.

Goods bound for Ontario from the USA going through Quebec? Have you looked at a map lately? There's a reason the busiest commercial border crossings between Canada and the USA are in Ontario. Paying twice? I don't think so.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to joeblow3

to joeblow3
said by joeblow3:

Where does racism fit into politics? Not sure perhaps you can tell us all. I am against the politics of Quebec.

Your statement above betray an anti-Quebec racism.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
Apparently the Canadian (federal) government does also share in the cost for some bridge projects (big and small) outside of Quebec.

For example, part of the Trans-Canada Highway in BC, major work in the area called Kicking Horse Canyon including the the Park Bridge....

In Ontario, the Sideroad 15 Bridge in South Bruce Peninsula....

In the NWT, the Deh Cho Bridge over the Mackenzie River, a massive and challenging project.

In Nova Scotia, a new Sydney River Bridge....

Just a few quick examples.

Kardinal
Dei Gratina Regina
Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th

Kardinal to ohTHEhorror

Mod

to ohTHEhorror
said by ohTHEhorror :

Only the Mercier and Victoria to my knowledge (and both do RR to this day).

Ummm....no. The Victoria does have the CN tracks "down the middle" as it was originally a railroad bridge only. The roadway outriggers are on either side.

The Mercier is not, nor has it ever been, a railway bridge. There is a CP bridge to the west of it, now also used by commuter trains to the south shore, but it has nothing to do with the twin spans of the Mercier bridge (one of which was built in the 30s and had the Seaway section added in the 50s, and the twin was built in the early 60s).

corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

1 edit

corster to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

said by joeblow3:

There are no other interprovincial bridges under federal jurisdiction as per this link
»www.tc.gc.ca/eng/program ··· -955.htm

Um, that list is exceedingly small and doesn't even include all international bridges, let alone interprovincial ones. If you're using this as a means to determine how many intraprovincial federal bridges there are, you're source is incomplete.

My guess is that the list only contains bridges that have projects underway at this time. Ones with nothing going on aren't listed.

The Federal Government really doesn't own that many bridges, including many international bridges that are privately owned. I think that list does cover the majority, if not all of them.

There are definitely no intraprovincial bridges owned by the Government of Canada outside Quebec. The reason the federal government owns the Champlain Bridge in particular is that it was built by the predecessor to the Montreal Port Authority (National Harbours Board) at the same time that the St. Lawrence Seaway was being built through the area - they were essentially two closely linked projects. Why we aren't using the new bridge as an opportunity to pass bridge ownership on to Quebec where it rightfully belongs, I have no idea.

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter to milnoc

Premium Member

to milnoc
It seems strange but under or above it still functions in the same manner, however to install it from underneath would have required more time, equipment and increased risk for workers.

The beam apparently was made years ago anticipating the cracking and possible failure of beams in the bridge. At the glacial speeds the replacement project is moving, they may need a few more of these beams before the bridge is finally retired.

ohThe Horror
@videotron.ca

ohThe Horror to Kardinal

Anon

to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by ohTHEhorror :

Only the Mercier and Victoria to my knowledge (and both do RR to this day).

Ummm....no. The Victoria does have the CN tracks "down the middle" as it was originally a railroad bridge only. The roadway outriggers are on either side.

The Mercier is not, nor has it ever been, a railway bridge. There is a CP bridge to the west of it, now also used by commuter trains to the south shore, but it has nothing to do with the twin spans of the Mercier bridge (one of which was built in the 30s and had the Seaway section added in the 50s, and the twin was built in the early 60s).

Yeah you could be right about the mercier. Trying to picture it, if I recall right there may be a RR bridge not far from it going into Mohawk territory or just outside of it. Been a while since I took that one.

But what do you mean "um no" about the victoria? Victoria has always been an RR bridge, and way back when they had horse and buggy going across it as well. One of them had a "tram way" later on, I do believe it was the Victoria. And since I don't know when, cars on either side, and I was involved in the RR signaling revamp (eng side).

CN actually shut the bridge down a decade or two ago (think closer to two) and threatened the gov to give them money to repair it or they would shut down commuter traffic. That little bridge handles a lot. Traffic shot up adding 45 minutes to everyones commute. They got their money. Fast. think that tiff lasted a week.

Yeah think this was over 2 decades ago. Maybe 2.5 at most.

Back then many were too scared to even take that bridge and avoided it. It had two way traffic on it (on the same side). Between the two-way traffic there was maybe 6 inches between the cars (maybe 2 inches between side mirrors). Many people would panic and did like 10km/hr then never take it again. Or stop their cars and cry and shake and someone would have to drive them off). People would crap their pants more when the train went down the middle in this two way traffic, that today only handles one lane of traffic. It was the fastest way on and off island during rush hour. Too many people scared. Since the redo, it does only one direction now (either side).

So I don't know what it is you are "um no'ing" about. Do you think there are no longer trains?? Or did you think I said it was a train only bridge?

A quick check finds this picture of the mercier. Is that the train bridge next to it then?
»pontmercierbridge.ca/en/ ··· vincial/

That Mercier is no doubt the next bridge that will have to be redone. It's under constant repair.

@Gone, MTL is classified as a major transport hub for rail and truck. They will go through any of these bridges. The fights are already brewing about a toll (but that would be for truck transport).
MichelR
join:2011-07-03
Trois-Rivieres, QC

MichelR to DKS

Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

said by joeblow3:

Where does racism fit into politics? Not sure perhaps you can tell us all. I am against the politics of Quebec.

Your statement above betray an anti-Quebec racism.

Not sure how being against some politics qualifies as racism? You're reaching.

Back on topic, I could swear I saw something in the past couple of weeks about the Feds being interested in transferring jurisdiction over those bridges to Quebec.

corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

corster

Premium Member

said by MichelR:

said by DKS:

said by joeblow3:

Where does racism fit into politics? Not sure perhaps you can tell us all. I am against the politics of Quebec.

Your statement above betray an anti-Quebec racism.

Not sure how being against some politics qualifies as racism? You're reaching.

This. There's nothing unreasonable about asking why the Federal Government owns intraprovincial bridges only in the Province of Quebec, when in general constitutional terms, they should be owned by the province, as they are in every other province.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by corster:

There's nothing unreasonable about asking why the Federal Government owns intraprovincial bridges only in the Province of Quebec, when in general constitutional terms, they should be owned by the province, as they are in every other province.

If you read the TC web site, the reasons for this complex ownership pattern is historical and complicated. Pont Champalin, for example, was built by a federal body, the Montreal Harbours Board. Although it is a provincial highway, it is owned federally for legitimate and historical reasons. Politics, especially Québec hating politics, are irrelevant and have no purpose or role in the discussion save to vent racist spleen.

Kardinal
Dei Gratina Regina
Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th

Kardinal to ohThe Horror

Mod

to ohThe Horror
said by ohThe Horror :

So I don't know what it is you are "um no'ing" about. Do you think there are no longer trains?? Or did you think I said it was a train only bridge?

If you read again, you'll see I *did* say the Victoria Bridge was used for trains, but that the Mercier, as you stated was, is NOT used by trains. In short, your subsequent long post agreed with mine. TYVM.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to corster

Premium Member

to corster
said by corster:

There are definitely no intraprovincial bridges owned by the Government of Canada outside Quebec. The reason the federal government owns the Champlain Bridge in particular is that it was built by the predecessor to the Montreal Port Authority (National Harbours Board) at the same time that the St. Lawrence Seaway was being built through the area - they were essentially two closely linked projects. Why we aren't using the new bridge as an opportunity to pass bridge ownership on to Quebec where it rightfully belongs, I have no idea.

Yeah, usually weird ownerships like this are due to prior ownership arrangements that never transferred over. There are bridges in Niagara that are owned by OPG for that same reason. There was a bridge on a residential street in Niagara Falls that was owned by the MTO because at one time it used to be part of a QEW interchange before the interchange was completely reconfigured. Stuff like this happens, and sometimes it takes a long time before the ownership quirks get worked out.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to joeblow3

Premium Member

to joeblow3
Heard this a.m. that the federal corp owns 2 1/2 bridges in Montreal
Champlain
Jacques Cartier
and half of Mercier (the worst bridge I've ever seen, scary to cross.
How does one own half a bridge? Does the fed own the good half, the top half, the left half?