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Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

[Green Tech] Anyone have a heat pump water heater

Thinking about getting one of these...»www.lowes.com/pd_386797-83-GEH50···8&rpp=32

I live in the deep south where heat pumps work well, my house is all electric. I saw this at Lowes for $999 with $550 in rebates so I'm thinking $450-500 to replace my 14 year old water heater with one that is supposed to cut the power consumption by up to 60%. Seems like a good deal to me but does anyone out there have one of these or similar and are actually saving a noticeable amount of money???



John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House
·ooma

[Green Tech] Re: Anyone have a heat pump water heater

I'll be watching this thread. I've been interested in these hybrid water heaters for a while. When I need the next replacement something like this might be an option.
--
So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Corehhi

What does installation entail/cost?



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

Installation is the same as a normal water heater with one exception, the heat pump needs a drain line which in my case I already have a drain on my water heater pan that connects to my air handler drain line and out of the attic it goes. My air handler and water heater are in the attic.

I'll install it myself but around here you're probably talking $200-250 for an install. Depends on where you put it and do you have a way to run a drain line.



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
reply to John97

Heads up I did find out that Geospring's water heater did have some problems from cheap coils that tended to leak over time. Problem was fixed in November of 2012 with a new design.


HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Corehhi

I'd be very interested to know the long-term reliability of these. A typical water heater is pretty much the simplest device in a house. It just works. Gas models even work when the power is out. Adding a heat pump to one increases the complexity by a lot. I could imagine repair bills eliminating any energy savings.

OTOH, having one in my attic in Texas would make it pretty easy for the heat pump to get plenty of heat to pump!



tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
reply to Corehhi

One additional point to keep in mind is the heat pump is drawing heat out of the room it is in it needs to be in a fairly large or well ventilated area.

Since you are in a southern area be interesting to do a cost tradeoff of heat pump water heater vs a solar collector system.

Another option worth considering is to use waste heat from your AC to heat water.

/tom



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

1 recommendation

The "room" is an attic of a stick built 2800 sq ft house, I have plenty of ventilation area and a solar fan for when it gets hot.

I solar water heater is about $6800 minus 55% tax rebates but the rebates end this year. I was pretty close to going for that, problem there is lots of money up front and no hard pay back numbers.

To use the waste heat from the AC just isn't cost effective. Won't do anything 6 months out of the year.



John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House
·ooma

said by Corehhi:

The "room" is an attic of a stick built 2800 sq ft house, I have plenty of ventilation area and a solar fan for when it gets hot.

I solar water heater is about $6800 minus 55% tax rebates but the rebates end this year. I was pretty close to going for that, problem there is lots of money up front and no hard pay back numbers.

To use the waste heat from the AC just isn't cost effective. Won't do anything 6 months out of the year.

If I go this route, I'd put it out in the garage, which is just on the other side of the wall from the laundry room which is where the existing heater is located now. The piping and electrical changes would be minimal. I'd think that a 3-car garage in Florida would be a big enough and warm enough space for it to work. The garage has a rear walk-out door to the backyard. It's a jalousie door, and I keep the louvers cranked open to allow fresh air in.
--
So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Added bonus of the heat pump water heater is it would help to dehumidify your garage. I've heard good things said about people who have these in basements and they could turn off their dehumidifier since the water does a duel job.



John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House
·ooma

said by Corehhi:

Added bonus of the heat pump water heater is it would help to dehumidify your garage. I've heard good things said about people who have these in basements and they could turn off their dehumidifier since the water does a duel job.

That is my understanding as well.
--
So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2
reply to Corehhi

Re: [Green Tech] Anyone have a heat pump water heater

I've thought about one of those - but -

#1 - I'd have to move the water heater from it's AquaHut outside the bedroom to the family room - thus increasing the time it would take to get hot water for shower

#2 - Said family room location is where we spend most of our time (except for the bedroom or kitchen) - noise could be an issue.

#3 - Is the payback really there in a "reasonable" amount of time ? My Tou electric rates are REALLY cheap..., OTOH my last electric water heater lasted 15 years.

The whole reason the Water heater is in the AquaHut is due to a shortage of closet space in the house. Has worked pretty well for the last 10-15 years.


dbamber

join:2003-02-07
Payson, AZ
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·CenturyLink
reply to Corehhi

I bought a 60 gallon American Hybrid water heater about 2 1/3 years ago. I paid about $1200 for it. The unit is in the unfinished area of our basement here in central Arizona. Our average temperatures here are approximately 15 to 20 degrees cooler than the Phoenix area. Even with the cooler climate here in Payson, our houses basement area where the unit is located has a 6 foot tall dirt embankment across the back 1/3 of the basement that keeps the area temperature above 40+ degrees even in the Winter. This allows the unit to operate solely on hybrid mode all the time. The unit is also on a cycle timer (9pm to 9am) due to the fact we have off peak metering. We replaced a 40 gallon electric heater that was set for 140 degrees. The hybrid is set for 120 degrees due to the fact that it has 50% more water storage capacity. We have been saving at least $20 dollars monthly since changing to this unit I calculate that our payback time will be in 6 to 7 years, figuring the installation costs, and the cost of the unit. Most all of the hybrid units I looked at had a 10 year parts warranty, I anticipate that after 10 years we will have saved over $500. If I was not collecting SS, and was earning enough income we would have gotten about $400 in energy tax credits that would have speeded up the break-even point by about 1 1/2 years. Before buying a heat pump water heater I had looked into solar water heating. Going solar would have required about 3 times the outlay, and a far longer break-even point. FWIW I owned a solar water heating company in the 1980's, and I dabbled with heat pump water heaters in the house we lived in in Mass. Those units were an auxiliary unit where you would tie it into an existing unit. Sadly those units were prone for premature terminal failure. Our existing hybrid unit has performed flawlessly so far. Good Luck, I would suggest that you look into the reliability of the units that you are considering. My only ironic negative comment on our American Hot Water hybrid unit is that it was manufactured in China!



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

I little more info that I have found out. The geosprings was made in China and has since been moved back to the US with the redesign. The new ones are ID'ed by DEEDSR after the 50 in the model number the old ones were DNSR after the 50. Wanted to make sure I didn't get an old one.

The compressor they are using is a refrigerator compressor and it's basically a refrigerator running backwards. Seems to me they should last a long time, how often does a refrigerator die in a few years???. Most run for a long time.

On the compressor like a refrigerator, the unit should be handled the same, transported in the vertical position and not left on it's side. I was told it could be shipped on it's side but to wait at least 24 hours after it's been put in the vertical position to turn it on. I'm wondering if some of the problems people have wrote about started by them having their water heaters laying horizontally on the floor for a while until a install??? Possible??? I'll be transporting it in the vertical position just be sure. Going to be in the high 70's this weekend so it would be a good time to install it in the attic while it's warm. Think I'm going to buy one tomorrow.



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to dbamber

Thanks for the reply.

My pay back would be reasonable if I got $20 a month savings, about two years. I have a family of four so we go through a decent amount of hot water so I might get better saving then you, no offense but I take it your old since your collecting SS. Just of interest what's your electric rate?? I'm at 13 cents give or take, summer verses winter and other BS games but I'm getting hit with a 2% minimum rate hike every year for at least the 4 years because my power company is building a nuclear plant and shutting down three coal fired power plants.



02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
reply to Corehhi

Re: [Green Tech] Re: Anyone have a heat pump water heater

said by Corehhi:

Installation is the same as a normal water heater with one exception, the heat pump needs a drain line which in my case I already have a drain on my water heater pan that connects to my air handler drain line and out of the attic it goes. My air handler and water heater are in the attic.

I'll install it myself but around here you're probably talking $200-250 for an install. Depends on where you put it and do you have a way to run a drain line.

Just read the details of the rebates. In MA here it requires a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL to do the install so DIY means $0 rebate.


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

said by 02778712:

said by Corehhi:

Just read the details of the rebates. In MA here it requires a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL to do the install so DIY means $0 rebate.

Friend is a home builder and is just going to have his plumber sign off on the rebate. If I had to I would get a plumber that charges by the hour, take out the old tank before he shows up and have the new tank right there to be hooked up. Maybe an hour??? I don't have to do that but if I did that's how I would do it.


02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA

said by Corehhi:

said by 02778712:

said by Corehhi:

Just read the details of the rebates. In MA here it requires a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL to do the install so DIY means $0 rebate.

Friend is a home builder and is just going to have his plumber sign off on the rebate. If I had to I would get a plumber that charges by the hour, take out the old tank before he shows up and have the new tank right there to be hooked up. Maybe an hour??? I don't have to do that but if I did that's how I would do it.

It sounds like you're all set then. A buddy lost out doing it DIY so I didn't want to see it happen to you.

dbamber

join:2003-02-07
Payson, AZ
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·CenturyLink
reply to Corehhi

Re: [Green Tech] Anyone have a heat pump water heater

I guess that if you want to call my age which is 65 old, then I guess so. I consider my aunt who is 97 old! (Just a little humor here!) Our electrical costs on our last bill was 12.35 cents per kWh. Our off peak metering accounts for over 70% of our usage on our last bill.



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

I guess I should have said you're less likely to use as much hot water as my house. Yes 97 is old compared to you . LOL.

BTW I bought one today only problem is I really need a few months at least to see if it's working. Really an entire year because I wondering if it will do much in the summer?? My water is already 80-85 degrees in the summer months and the water heater is in the attic which will probably be around 115-120 every day. Certainly wasn't losing heat to the attic.

We will see...


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to Corehhi

I have been using one since last summer. It works well. We keep it at 140F, and it supports a family of 5 without issue. As our home is large, we have a recirculator which feeds hot water back to the unit from the other end of the house. We keep it in balance mode, and it works without trouble.

Our old furnace / hot water tank room just has this in it, and now it's a cool room instead of a hot room.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.



Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Corehhi

We have had a GE Geospring for about 6 months and it has worked very well for us so far. We replaced a 25 year old Sears NG water heater. Normally the switch to electric wouldn't have made sense financially, but the solar panels we put on last year makes it free to run.

We got a really good deal on the heater up front. The normal price at Lowe's is $1100, we bought it on sale for $900, used a 10% off coupon to get it down to about $800, got a $300 rebate back from the power company making it $500 and we will get a 30% tax credit in April, making the total $200. Make sure you look into every possible option from this standpoint.

We have a 3 person household (2 adults and 1 toddler) and never run out of water despite laundry, dishwashers and showers when it is set to full hybrid mode. We keep the water set at 120 degrees.
--
Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks!



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to Corehhi

Update, Geosprings water heater is now installed. It was heavy, two full sized guys needed for the install. Thing fired right up and after an hour I had plenty of hot water. Heat pump is working, it's all working right.

I will have to update this thread in a few months and see how this works out money wise.

BTW old water was well on it's way out, rust was taking over, didn't notice till I started taking things apart.



woodie

join:2000-09-23
Gulf Breeze, FL

Is it noisy???



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to Fronkman

said by Fronkman:

Normally the switch to electric wouldn't have made sense financially, but the solar panels we put on last year makes it free to run.

This statement implies your solar array is capable of generating at least 100% of your peak demand. If that's not the case, it's not really "free" to run the electric water heater as your other loads will be consuming grid-supplied energy that would otherwise be powered by your array.


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to woodie

said by woodie:

Is it noisy???

You can hear the fan but it's not loud maybe the sound of a big computer fan. I'll put it this way I use to have a computer that was louder back in the over clock days. Unless you had the water heater in the same room with you, you won't hear it.


Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO
reply to pike

said by pike:

This statement implies your solar array is capable of generating at least 100% of your peak demand. If that's not the case, it's not really "free" to run the electric water heater as your other loads will be consuming grid-supplied energy that would otherwise be powered by your array.

you assume that I have no idea what my energy usage is, however you know absolutely nothing about my grid size or my energy usage. here are the facts about my situation.

1. our water heater needed to be replaced, the previous one was 25 years old
2. our final cost (~$200) is what you would pay for a cheap NG water heater
3. our grid supplies at least 100% of electricity needs from october-april

so in the end for us, consuming grid-supplied energy to power the water heater for 5 months out of the year is clearly less expensive than paying for NG 12 months out of the year.

for an average day of water use, the heat pump runs about 3 hours. GE says it uses 550W, thus 49.5kWh per 30 day month or 250kWh during the summer season. our power company charges 11.35 cents per kWh making our annual cost of hot water $28. assume that we don't have solar panels at all, it still only costs about $60 per year to operate.

the best gas water heater operational cost out there (rinnai tankless) is $200. this also requires a massive investment upfront. by using power generated ourselves, we are less vulnerable to to increase in the price of energy (the midwest in particular has very low NG prices due to the fracking boom, this will end someday).

so yes, maybe i exaggerated a bit in my initial statement. our hot water is only "free" 7 months of the year and it costs us about $30 for the remainder of the time.
--
Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks!


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

said by Fronkman:

you assume that I have no idea what my energy usage is

I did no such thing.
said by Fronkman:

our power company charges 11.35 cents per kWh making our annual cost of hot water $28. assume that we don't have solar panels at all, it still only costs about $60 per year to operate.

I'm curious how you came up with that figure. According to the manufacturer »www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-h···ings.htm your annual operating cost is estimated to be $210.66 at your utility rate.

I'm a fan of hybrid water heaters and definitely a proponent of residential solar installations. But unfortunately neither are a one-size fits all solution. It's important to be accurate when determining which works best for each unique situation.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Fronkman

said by Fronkman:

our hot water is only "free" 7 months of the year and it costs us about $30 for the remainder of the time

That's a wrong assumption. It's not free as it offsets what you would otherwise sell to the grid.

said by Fronkman:

the heat pump runs about 3 hours. GE says it uses 550W,

The COP of air source heat pump water heaters hovers around 2.5
Based on 3hrs/550W you could produce 14000BTU of heat, barely enough for two quick showers.
In reality you'll use much more. Even the energy guide label lists 1830kWh/year.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Fronkman

said by Fronkman:

the best gas water heater operational cost out there (rinnai tankless) is $200. this also requires a massive investment upfront.

Damn. Tankless units are worse of a scam than I thought. The cheapest 40 Gallon gas unit from Home Depot has an energy guide rating of $277. And even that I think is bunk - our gas bill in the summer when it's hot water, cooking, grill, and clothes dryer is barely $23/mo and that includes customer charges. So after 10 years I may break even with a tankless and that's if it never needs repairs.