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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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reply to DownTheShore

Re: Windows 7 gains more market share than Windows 8 and 8.1 combined

said by DownTheShore:

I'm actually beginning to like Win 8.1 since I installed Classic Shell.

Which is fine for you and me and the 100's of tech people who hang out here. Do you think a fortune 500 company would roll out an unsupported product across the entire company?

This is where Microsoft made it's biggest mistake, trying to be Apple, and use the same shell across all it's platforms. Forget hardware, the cost of training alone (new interface) would far outweigh the benefits of the new OS.
--
How could it be so? It came without ribbons!... it came without tags!... it came without packages, boxes, or bags!'


Kramer
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join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
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said by elwoodblues:

said by DownTheShore:

I'm actually beginning to like Win 8.1 since I installed Classic Shell.

This is where Microsoft made it's biggest mistake, trying to be Apple, and use the same shell across all it's platforms. Forget hardware, the cost of training alone (new interface) would far outweigh the benefits of the new OS.

How was Apple that stupid? In no way does an iMac share the same shell as an iPad.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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You're going to see OS X morph into iOS with time, it's already going that way slowly, at least Apple will update the shell incrementally, MS just threw it on there.

And at the Server level too?
--
How could it be so? It came without ribbons!... it came without tags!... it came without packages, boxes, or bags!'


Octavean
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join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
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1 edit
said by elwoodblues:

You're going to see OS X morph into iOS with time, it's already going that way slowly, at least Apple will update the shell incrementally, MS just threw it on there.

And at the Server level too?

I hear what what you're saying, I think,...

However, the use of the new Windows UI / Metro even in Server 2012 / 2012 Essentials didn't seem like much of a barrier IMO. Acclimating to the new server OS for me had nothing to do with Metro. I mean for my needs clicking "All apps" and then clicking "Server Manager" isn't all that hard and not all that different from the start menu.

However, what comes next is the real question IMO. Where will Microsoft take Windows from here annually,....?

Microsoft codename 'Threshold': The next major Windows wave takes shape

What comes next after Windows 8.1?

Naturally its too early to tell but I don't know if "Threshold" will diverge from the route taken with the controversial or oft detested Metro UI. Especially so given its an intended unified update of Xbox One, Windows and Windows Phone (Xbox One and Windows Phone being perfectly suited for Metro).

So that supposedly maps out to the spring of 2015 if accurate.

Edit:

Anyway, annual OS updates means more OS release which increases the potential for fragmentation due to the increase in choice (of Windows OSes).

Holding out on Windows XP was a phenomenon in the past and holding out on Windows 7 is not very different now.


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1
said by Octavean:

said by elwoodblues:

You're going to see OS X morph into iOS with time, it's already going that way slowly, at least Apple will update the shell incrementally, MS just threw it on there.

And at the Server level too?

I hear what what you're saying, I think,...

However, the use of the new Windows UI / Metro even in Server 2012 / 2012 Essentials didn't seem like much of a barrier IMO. Acclimating to the new server OS for me had nothing to do with Metro. I mean for my needs clicking "All apps" and then clicking "Server Manager" isn't all that hard and not all that different from the start menu.

However, what comes next is the real question IMO. Where will Microsoft take Windows from here annually,....?

Microsoft codename 'Threshold': The next major Windows wave takes shape

What comes next after Windows 8.1?

Naturally its too early to tell but I don't know if "Threshold" will diverge from the route taken with the controversial or oft detested Metro UI. Especially so given its an intended unified update of Xbox One, Windows and Windows Phone (Xbox One and Windows Phone being perfectly suited for Metro).

So that supposedly maps out to the spring of 2015 if accurate.

Edit:

Anyway, annual OS updates means more OS release which increases the potential for fragmentation due to the increase in choice (of Windows OSes).

Holding out on Windows XP was a phenomenon in the past and holding out on Windows 7 is not very different now.

I agree, I've been using the new servers on some projects and it has been rather easy.

Getting to tackle new projects from 2012 in the back end to HTML5 clients on the front while dumping legacy systems is a real pleasure. I've been lucky to work in places where the software, not the hardware or fear of change, dictate the systems in use.


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
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reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

said by DownTheShore:

I'm actually beginning to like Win 8.1 since I installed Classic Shell.

Which is fine for you and me and the 100's of tech people who hang out here. Do you think a fortune 500 company would roll out an unsupported product across the entire company?

This is where Microsoft made it's biggest mistake, trying to be Apple, and use the same shell across all it's platforms. Forget hardware, the cost of training alone (new interface) would far outweigh the benefits of the new OS.

Eventually they will adopt 8.1, it's just a factor of time and the expiration of support for earlier Windows versions. If we all can side-step the new interface, surely it can be implemented on a company-wide basis. Strip that away and there are more similarities than disparities to earlier versions so the learning curve shouldn't be that steep for the majority of employees who aren't involved in the actual running of the system.

When my office computerized, we started off with Win95 running on our computers even though higher versions of Windows had already been released. When I left, we had finally made it to XP.

Any graph of the popularity of a Windows product that takes into account corporate usage is going to be skewed just because corporate is always going to stay with the devil they know before they are forced by circumstances to use a newer version.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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I don't disagree, but when you make a radical shift in the GUI, that's a whole different ball of wax.

I can just see it now, the IT Director in a meeting with the CIO of a fortune 500 company trying to pitch the installation of a 3rd party application that has little or no support, and of which nobody knows (or will know) is a security risk.
--
How could it be so? It came without ribbons!... it came without tags!... it came without packages, boxes, or bags!'


darcilicious
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That's an IT Director worth firing. Why would they do what you're supposing?

I don't understand all the fuss. Seriously. Run the desktop, end of story.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Octavean
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said by darcilicious:

That's an IT Director worth firing. Why would they do what you're supposing?

I don't understand all the fuss. Seriously. Run the desktop, end of story.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with you,....

I have used this example before and I'll use it again here:

My Wife is a developer / programmer for a not so small and well known company. She was eventually switched off of a Dell box running Windows XP to a 27" Apple iMac and given an Apple Mac Book Pro for travel and occasional telecommuting. Other changes were made too like a switch to Drupe,...

Generally speaking, changes sometime are made and you, as an employee don't always have a say in the decision making process. Either you keep up with the changes or find employment elsewhere. In the world of technology, if you can't keep up how employable are you really,.....???

IMO, the switch from XP to OS X is much greater then the switch from a quasi modern Microsoft OS like Windows XP to a totally modern Microsoft OS like Windows 8 / 8.1.

Now I do understand that widespread corporate adoption of Windows 8 / 8.1 at this time is highly unlikely (snowballs chance in hell unlikely). However, that doesn't change the spirt of what I am saying even if it is totally leapfrogged in the coming years for a newer Microsoft OS.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to darcilicious
First I agree, the employee has no say in the matter, that said, as an IT Director I'd have to look what is converting to the the new GUI going to cost us. It's about the big picture, not about you and me and the other "geeks" that hang out here who can figure it out at home.

Questions like:

How much is training going to cost?
How much lost productivity will their be while people get up to speed on the new gui?
How much are support costs going to be while people get up to speed?
There is the question of hardware costs, but since it'd be replaced in a normal cycle, I'll put that aside.

I'm probably missing a few more , but those alone justify not moving to Win 8.x

That is why it's a fuss.

There was ZERO reason to make such a radical change to the GUI, I can only surmise they figured they could rationalize the GUI development costs for the phone/tablet across the phone/pc/tablet/server platforms.
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How could it be so? It came without ribbons!... it came without tags!... it came without packages, boxes, or bags!'


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
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Is it really going to take the users that much time to get up to speed? How many people are already used to a similar tile interface from their iPhones and iPads? Anyone who's ever worked in a fast food restaurant is used to using dedicated tiles on their register screens.

Just going by my former coworkers' lack of technical skill and lack of interest in computers as a whole, the dumbing down of the GUI will probably be easier for them to adopt because it is less intimidating.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.


Russ Lawson

join:2013-12-04

1 edit
It's not a case of getting used to a tile interface. When the screen of a device is tiny, a tiled screen is a very logical way to do things.

But - a PC is not a phone or tablet. It is not a fast food point-of-sale screen. A PC has a keyboard and a mouse that work well with a large screen. A person working with productivity applications - often with many simultaneously, as I do - can move within and among them very easily with the mouse.

Another thing: I do not want to touch my computer screen and I don't want to work around an OS that assumes that I DO want to touch it. I don't. How many people got carpal tunnel from using a mouse - and now we are supposed to add the motion of reaching up and putting strain on elbow and shoulder joints, just so we can use a computer as though it is a tablet or phone? Ridiculous.

When I saw the TV ads for Windows 8 I was immediately leery. What did they show? A bunch of Facebook posters and other computer amateurs being duly impressed by some valueless little tricks on the screen of the computer. Wow! Gee! Amazing! That's neat! Well if they like it then they are welcome to it, and good luck.

Someone else up the thread pointed out that Windows 7 is a great OS - and it is. Stable, efficient to use productively, designed for the best experience using the kind of computer hardware that makes the most sense. On the other hand, Windows 8 was the answer to a question I sure never asked - namely how to make two very different devices behave as though they were not so different. I hope to keep using Windows 7 for as long as possible because its replacement is more about gee-whiz than substance.

It's almost like if Ferrari labeled all the controls and dash switches with "My..." to make their cars more user friendly for soccer moms. "My headlights... My Windshield Wipers... My Defrosters... My Parking Brake...". Like that.


darcilicious
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said by Russ Lawson:

It's not a case of getting used to a tile interface. When the screen of a device is tiny, a tiled screen is a very logical way to do things.

But - a PC is not a phone or tablet. It is not a fast food point-of-sale screen. A PC has a keyboard and a mouse that work well with a large screen. A person working with productivity applications - often with many simultaneously, as I do - can move within and among them very easily with the mouse.

And oddly enough, you can still do that in Windows 8.

Another thing: I do not want to touch my computer screen and I don't want to work around an OS that assumes that I DO want to touch it. I don't.

I got a really simple solution for you. Then don't. Use the desktop. And the mouse. And the keyboard. Don't touch the screen. Because you don't have to. Ever.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

Russ Lawson

join:2013-12-04
said by darcilicious:

Use the desktop. And the mouse. And the keyboard. Don't touch the screen. Because you don't have to. Ever.

I just think Windows 8 was an attempt more at style than substance. I don't see where it will improve my productivity, but I know for certain of things that I would lose in '8 compared to what is in '7.

Originally when I saw what Windows 7 could do for me over and above XP I said 'this is great, this is going to be a real improvement for me' and it has been. Looking at Windows 8 I just don't see where working around its 'features' I don't care to use is going to benefit me.


darcilicious
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said by Russ Lawson:

I know for certain of things that I would lose in '8 compared to what is in '7.

Okay, then bring those up. So far, nothing you have posted has anything to do with using Windows 8 the same way you use Windows 7.

Looking at Windows 8 I just don't see where working around its 'features' I don't care to use is going to benefit me.

Perfect. Then don't upgrade. And when you get a new computer that only has Windows 8 available, guess what? You'll be just fine.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬