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Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX

1 edit
reply to DarkLogix

Re: [Config] Performance due to VLAN, incomplete STP, or loop backs?


CNA Topology view
Morning DarkLogix,

Thank you for your reply. Attached is a screen shot of the topology in CNA.

SWIT-01 is connected to:
SWIT-02 via g0/2 (fiber)
SWIT-04 via g0/1 (fiber to IDF)
SWIT-06 via g0/3 (eth)
SWIT-07 via f0/31 (looking to move sw07 and vmware to another rack to use g0/4)

SWIT-02 is connected to:
SWIT-01 via g0/2 (fiber)
SWIT-05 via g0/1 (fiber to IDF)
SWIT-07 via f0/3 (eth)

SWIT-03 is connected to:
SWIT-04 via g0/1
SWIT-05 via g0/2

SWIT-04 is connected to:
SWIT-01 via g0/1 (fiber to IDF)
SWIT-03 via g0/2

SWIT-05 is connected to:
SWIT-02 via g0/1
SWIT-03 via g0/2

SWIT-06 is connected to:
SWIT-01 via g0/1 (eth)

SWIT-07 is connected to:
SWIT-01 via f0/16
SWIT-02 via f0/1
--
Avatar by: dandelion | Tell me, tell me what you're after. I just want to get there faster.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Ok I'd defiantly look into a switch with multiple fiber links
like say a WS-C3560E-12D-S
it has 12x 2x ports so IIRC it can do 24x SFP (it could do 12x 10g bu that'd be expensive) and then have a gig link to your vmware setup

then instead of those netgears you'd be able to run fiber the full distance (netgears aren't the solution to long runnes fiber is)

you might also have some issues with your QOS but I can till you'll have issues with the topo too.
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aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6
reply to Nsane_iceman
Looking at the "show version" output, I don't quite understand the consideration of having some switches running various flavor of IOS images; IP Base, IP Services, and Advanced IP Services. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

To add what TomS_ See Profile mentioned, perhaps can you also describe what devices connected to which switch ports? This is to make sure that proper device connect to properly-configured switch port.

In addition to what DarkLogix See Profile brought up, is there by any chance professional wiring test conducted to see whether your inside-wall cabling are capable of supporting at least 1 Gbps speed?


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 edit
Just looked around some more and here's a more current switch for what I was suggesting

WS-C3750X-24S-E odd that there isn't a 24 spf 3560-X
depending on cost limits I'd lean to the 3560E I posted about but if cost isn't then the 3750-X

though the 3750X can have an uplink module giving it ether 2x 10g ports or 4 more gig ports and unlike the 3560E the 3750X is stackable

remember with a L2 loop STP will kill one of the links to prevent a network outage so while you have a loop one port somewhere should be down.

with what I suggest your network would have better backbone bandwidth which should help. (though that QOS might also be at fault)
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Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

Ok I'd defiantly look into a switch with multiple fiber links
like say a WS-C3560E-12D-S
it has 12x 2x ports so IIRC it can do 24x SFP (it could do 12x 10g bu that'd be expensive) and then have a gig link to your vmware setup

then instead of those netgears you'd be able to run fiber the full distance (netgears aren't the solution to long runnes fiber is)

you might also have some issues with your QOS but I can till you'll have issues with the topo too.

Updated my post on uplinks. There is fiber to the IDFs and either a Netgear was used due to lack of ports (need a 48 and not 24) or in two or three cases a run that was too long from the IDF.

WS-C3560E-12D-S might be a bit overkill and corporate is looking at going with Cisco Meraki for the gig upgrade.
--
Avatar by: dandelion | Tell me, tell me what you're after. I just want to get there faster.


DarkLogix
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Baytown, TX
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that 3560E would be the minimum to fix the topo not overkill at all.

you'd have 24 SFP ports you have 7 switches if you do etherchannel as I said then that's 14 of 24 in use with only 10 left for expansion

just googled "cisco Meraki"
"Cisco Meraki is the leader in cloud controlled WiFi,"

only one thing to say oh crap I feel bad for you if you're going to have to use a cloud controlled network. (that just sounds like the worst idea ever)
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Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to aryoba
said by aryoba:

Looking at the "show version" output, I don't quite understand the consideration of having some switches running various flavor of IOS images; IP Base, IP Services, and Advanced IP Services. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

I have no idea, or the details of the differences, but I'll find out.

said by aryoba:

To add what TomS_ See Profile mentioned, perhaps can you also describe what devices connected to which switch ports? This is to make sure that proper device connect to properly-configured switch port.

I'll get a list going and find a command I can use the IP to show the port it's on. Mostly is going to be: printers (~63), desktops (~8), laptops on a dock (~12), Cisco phones (~20) that might also have a laptop plugged into it.

said by aryoba:

In addition to what DarkLogix See Profile brought up, is there by any chance professional wiring test conducted to see whether your inside-wall cabling are capable of supporting at least 1 Gbps speed?

According to Southwest who made the new runs in the offices and cubes, the cables and jacks can do gig. Out on the warehouse floor with the printers and desktops, it's unlikely to get able to or needed.
--
Avatar by: dandelion | Tell me, tell me what you're after. I just want to get there faster.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
If you have an active smartnet then I'd just upgrade them all to the same version of IOS (maybe not the same bin file but version number and level, aka IP advanced services)

that would solve the varying versions issue.
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cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

only one thing to say oh crap I feel bad for you if you're going to have to use a cloud controlled network. (that just sounds like the worst idea ever)

It's actually not that bad... for remote locations that have no IT staff. The problem with Meraki is the extreme expense, and the never-ending support cost (read: yearly access fees to be able to use the very overpriced hardware.) But it is very nice looking hardware -- if Apple made network hardware, this would be it.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Who cares what it looks like I want it to preform and if my internet link is down I still want to be able to manage it.
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cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
Indeed. But for remote locations, if the internet is down, I cannot get there anyway.


Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

If you have an active smartnet then I'd just upgrade them all to the same version of IOS (maybe not the same bin file but version number and level, aka IP advanced services)

that would solve the varying versions issue.

Tried going to the Cisco web before, but when trying to do anything it tells me to contact my reseller or something for the S/N provided.
--
Avatar by: dandelion | Tell me, tell me what you're after. I just want to get there faster.


TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to DarkLogix
Erm, throwing more hardware at this problem is not likely the way to go about fixing it. You dont even know what the problem is yet, so suggesting "moar hardware" is like trying to hit a bullseye by firing bullets while blind folded.

Besides, I dont see what converting this to a star topology is really meant to achieve.

Based on the configs, most of the switch ports on switches 3 through 5 would appear to be things like IP phones with PCs, and I guess the occasional AP, so they look like access switches. There are only 3 devices in that ring, and Ive seen and built networks using a LOT more switches in a ring without any performance problems. The OP hasnt given any details about what the utilisation of the ports are on either side of the ring, so we dont know whether there are performance problems to even solve at those points in the network to begin with.

The OP also hasnt mentioned the distances involved between switches, or the media used. Is it multi-mode fibre? Is that fibre laid in a star topology, or ring topology? What are the distances between patch panels/IDFs in the field? The distances might be too great to even form a star topology out of multi-mode by glassing through at each IDF around the ring.

There are so many things unknown about this network that without asking the OP a million questions, we're going to spend a long time trying to solve this guys problem. Time that could have been used to get in a professional to sort it out.

I dont say this because I have some grudge against giving away free advice or what ever, but I really dont think this is the right place to get this problem solved. Someone needs to go on-site and do proper testing and troubleshooting.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
ordinarily TomS_ See Profile, i'd agree with you. however -- i make decent coin proposing hardware solutions to design problems. i'm also a consultant -- so i must be smarter than anyone in the room -- otherwise i wouldn't be there.

;-P

q.
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TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5
I call that a conflict of interest. :-P

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6
reply to tubbynet
I recalled of what my manager in one of my previous workplace tired of listening of their Cisco reseller's new product selling attempts as priority instead of offering technical support or fix to existing product the customer already had

I think these customer needs of having actual support of existing products customers already have drive certain Cisco solution company not to sell products as priority, though such company is usually rare to find or is small in size


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to TomS_
said by TomS_:

I call that a conflict of interest. :-P

there's no conflict. my wallet size is my only interest ;-P

q.
--
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to aryoba
said by aryoba:

I recalled of what my manager in one of my previous workplace tired of listening of their Cisco reseller's new product selling attempts as priority instead of offering technical support or fix to existing product the customer already had

aryoba See Profile, you know as well as anyone that i constantly troll these threads providing the most over the top or self-centered answer possible. turn on your bullshit filter when i type something absurd and you'll get where i come from.

that being said -- there are a large number of times when additional hardware spend is warranted. i can't help when a customer jumps from partner to partner and gets sold a bag of shit. if its wrong from a technical perspective -- its wrong and additional hardware is warranted. if a customer is cheap and wants to make a bag of shit into a network, its going to run like a bag of shit. we can try to polish the turd, but its still a turd.

part of being a good architect and engineer is knowing where compromises can be made and how to strategically forecast and plan a customer network and spend cycle to ensure that they meet the overall business and technology goals. this is where i get brought in. i try to be sensitive, especially in breakthrough or difficult accounts -- but i play it straight. shit is shit -- and i can't make it much better.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by TomS_:

I call that a conflict of interest. :-P

there's no conflict. my wallet size is my only interest ;-P

q.

When you work for Cisco reseller company, you are constantly under pressure from Cisco to keep selling more and more Cisco products. I had been working for one such reseller company, so I have my share of experience seeing questionable implementations and practices just to make a quick buck

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6
reply to tubbynet
One occasion was that there was rich customer, willing to spend $$$$ as necessary. The customer was famous (or rather infamous) of jumping from one consultant to another. The problem was that the customer did not seem to understand what exactly they looked for and never provided clear requirement. Even when you did get a requirement and you provided your best suggestions in return, the customer did not take the suggestion due to the fact that you were just consultant and not an employee.

It was definitely unique customer attitude to work with


TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to tubbynet
Yes but.... When you .... ah forget it.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to cramer
said by cramer:

Indeed. But for remote locations, if the internet is down, I cannot get there anyway.

That's when you use the intranet. or the backup intranet, or the serial port server that's connected to cell service.
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by DarkLogix:

That's when you use the intranet. or the backup intranet

you assume that you're not designing a wan architecture based on dmvpn-esque architecture.

the target market for meraki is distributed enterprise (think of coffee shops or 1-5 person remote offices). in this space -- you're not going to pay for a private mpls circuit to this size of site -- you're going to use a cheaper internet circuit and provide a vpn overlay to access corporate resources.

its *always* easy to design the biggest and most redundant network available. the challenge is aligning technology to meet business requirements and goals, all while staying within budget.

pulling 'backup private wan' circuits out of your ass is not a cheap endeavour.

q.
--
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DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to TomS_
I suggest hardware only because its the only way to achieve a real core with proper links.

I aim for ideal anything else is IMO half-ars*
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semper idem
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by DarkLogix:

I suggest hardware only because its the only way to achieve a real core with proper links.

better tell that to *every* service provider out there that has built out a *huge* metro access topology using fiber rings.



q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by TomS_:

I call that a conflict of interest. :-P

there's no conflict. my wallet size is my only interest ;-P

q.

LOL

my only interest is the best performance possible.
if it were my wallet then I'm doing it wrong.
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aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by DarkLogix:

That's when you use the intranet. or the backup intranet

you assume that you're not designing a wan architecture based on dmvpn-esque architecture.

the target market for meraki is distributed enterprise (think of coffee shops or 1-5 person remote offices). in this space -- you're not going to pay for a private mpls circuit to this size of site -- you're going to use a cheaper internet circuit and provide a vpn overlay to access corporate resources.

Unless you have "unlimited" budget


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by aryoba:

Unless you have "unlimited" budget

the proverbial unicorn for the sales team.

q.

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:6
said by tubbynet:

said by aryoba:

Unless you have "unlimited" budget

the proverbial unicorn for the sales team.

q.

Indeed. Unfortunately you have to have certain presence to meet the criteria


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to aryoba
said by aryoba:

One occasion was that there was rich customer, willing to spend $$$$ as necessary. The customer was famous (or rather infamous) of jumping from one consultant to another. The problem was that the customer did not seem to understand what exactly they looked for and never provided clear requirement. Even when you did get a requirement and you provided your best suggestions in return, the customer did not take the suggestion due to the fact that you were just consultant and not an employee.

It was definitely unique customer attitude to work with

Arrg I get users like that alot, they say what they think they want but they don't really know.

like a user asking for a big external harddrive because their H drive is full, its only as full as the quota I set shows and I can make it bigger in a few seconds without buying anything.

(that's just one example I've had many more issues like that)

Normally I push them to say what they want to do or what the real problem is
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