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tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to billydunwood

Re: Hypothetical accident caused by third driver

said by billydunwood:

said by OldCableGuy :

In a rear end collision the vehicle at the back is almost always found at fault. Regardless of why the front vehicle stopped. So even if the vehicle in front just slammed on their breaks to avoid missing the turn, the vehicle behind them should have stopped. IANAL YMMV

That is false, they are not always at fault.

Bold added to clarify.

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by wolfy339:

Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

AFAIK, ensuring your own safe crossing is always your own responsibility regardless of any waving others may give you - you are the one making the decision to trust others' advice instead of verifying things for yourself.

At most, north inner might get cited for obstructing traffic since he is not supposed to stop on the left/fast lane unless he is either turning left or on a stop sign/light.

Blind left turns through oncoming traffic lanes are scary. One of my closest calls was when the driver behind a truck waiting on a left turn decided to change lanes in the middle of the intersection just as I was passing by the truck, half-way into my own left turn.

Let me further clarify...the situation I described is something that happened. I happen to know one of the drivers involved and, as I remember, the way it was explained to her by the responding officer is that, while the turning driver was cited as being at fault, technically the driver in the NB inside lane was at fault for improperly signalling the SB inside driver to proceed with her turn.
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OldCableGuy

@planetcr.net
reply to billydunwood

Yeah that's why I specifically said "ALMOST ALWAYS"

Although good luck proving that the car in front of you cut you off and slammed their breaks. It is your word against theirs, and in those cases I know from personal experience the cops will default to citing the person in the furthest back vehicle.

Now if the front driver says "yeah I got in front of him and slammed my breaks" then sure, the cops will cite the front driver. Anything else, and the cops are going to cite the car in the back.

To repeat: ALMOST ALWAYS, ALMOST ALWAYS


billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2

Your right about almost always. I didn't read carefully enough
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No Victim=No Crime


mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
kudos:1
reply to ctggzg

Semi-related incident I was a direct eyewitness to:

It is a snowy, cold, slippery day. The roads are not good.

Driver A is at a red light in the left turn lane, waiting for a green arrow. Driver B is to his right waiting to go straight.

Driver C approaches from the left with his right turn signal on. Driver A senses that Driver C is going too fast and is not going to make the turn. Driver B cannot see Driver C because the view is blocked by Driver A's large truck to her left.

Driver A throws his truck into reverse (there is no one behind him) and quickly backs out of the way. As expected, Driver C overshoots the turn, slides on the ice through the space that was formerly occupied by Driver A, and hits Driver B.

Driver A feels very badly, but given the choice between getting out of the way while he had the chance or sitting there like a mope and purposely allowing himself to get whacked to spare Driver B, Driver A chose the former.

The police determine that Driver C is 100% at fault. Driver B is hysterical and wants Drivers A and C both ticketed.

The cop's exact words, "What am I supposed to do? Ticket the guy for not volunteering to get hit?"

Moral of the story: Yes, it's a big deal to pay attention to the traffic around you. And being a major player in how an accident goes down does not always mean you are at fault.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to wolfy339

said by wolfy339:

technically the driver in the NB inside lane was at fault for improperly signalling the SB inside driver to proceed with her turn.

"Technically", sure.

Legally and for insurance purposes? Most likely not.

Ensuring that following instructions or signalization can be done safely as far as one can reasonably be expected to from the driver's seat is always the drivers' responsibility.

As someone else said, the north-inner driver most likely waved only for himself. South should still have watched out for north-outer while on his way through north-inner's lane. Depending on how heavy traffic is, this could brew its own lot of embarrassing situations.

reply to Anonymous_

said by Anonymous_:

op is just describing insurance fraud
called swoop and squat

Insurance companies are familiar with that and if that seems to be the case they do further investigation.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits

said by Jack Spratt :

said by Anonymous_:

op is just describing insurance fraud
called swoop and squat

Insurance companies are familiar with that and if that seems to be the case they do further investigation.

yeah

someone almost hit me today I did swerve out of the way with the HORN FULL blast It's the same as what the op describes except the person was making a left turn (he was in the center median pulling in to traffic after making a left turn) for sure if I was not paying attention I would have hit him. His fault obviously for fail to yield to traffic.

California Vehicle Code section 21801(A) according to that he still has to Yield to traffic before entering traffic

he could not say he did not see me since my headlights/fog lights were on at the time. here you can have up to 4 running lights at the same time (2 each side) "automatic headlights"


RonS
Madm0nke
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Dayton, OH
reply to ctggzg

Something very close to this happened to my daughter.. she was Car B. Car C was an ambulance that turned at a light. Car A hit their brakes when they saw the ambulance and my Daughter hit Car A. Her fault.
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy.



Pete Post

@rr.com
reply to wolfy339

said by wolfy339:

Just a quickie, I think this is similar to the situation that the OP is describing: Driver trying to turn into a parking lot from a four lane (two lanes each direction) road. Driver in question is in the inside southbound lane, driver in inside northbound lane waves her through and she is hit by a driver in the outside northbound lane. Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

Note: Inside lane is the lane closest to the center line, outside lane is the lane closest to the curb.

The person turning left in front of moving traffic would be at fault NOT the person "waving them through", it is ALWAYS your responsibility to make sure the lane is CLEAR before you turn.

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA

said by Pete Post :

said by wolfy339:

Just a quickie, I think this is similar to the situation that the OP is describing: Driver trying to turn into a parking lot from a four lane (two lanes each direction) road. Driver in question is in the inside southbound lane, driver in inside northbound lane waves her through and she is hit by a driver in the outside northbound lane. Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

Note: Inside lane is the lane closest to the center line, outside lane is the lane closest to the curb.

The person turning left in front of moving traffic would be at fault NOT the person "waving them through", it is ALWAYS your responsibility to make sure the lane is CLEAR before you turn.

Try telling that to the officer at the scene.
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workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to JoelC707

I met a friend the same way. His wife took out our brick mailbox and the mailbox took out most of the car.

Struck up a conversation.

Funny how that works sometimes.

Blob

Edit. The scariest thing that happened to me driving was going over a bridge.
Before I got on the bridge two lanes changed to 1 due to construction.

I was waiting my turn and some SOB in a truck was ignoring the zipper rule. Well, I was driving a beater so I did not care if our cars slightly touched as I asserted my right to the road and I managed to get in without issue.

This pissed him off big time.

As I am at the far end of the bridge where the embankment meets it I hear BOOM. I look in my RVM and I see (this is not exaggerated) this F150 flipping end over end coming my way.

So I gun it to safety as I watch his truck flip right off the road and down the embankment.

I am guessing he was so angry he got stupid.

WOW.
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