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wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
reply to Caddyroger

Re: Hypothetical accident caused by third driver

Just a quickie, I think this is similar to the situation that the OP is describing: Driver trying to turn into a parking lot from a four lane (two lanes each direction) road. Driver in question is in the inside southbound lane, driver in inside northbound lane waves her through and she is hit by a driver in the outside northbound lane. Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

Note: Inside lane is the lane closest to the center line, outside lane is the lane closest to the curb.
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OldCableGuy

@communications.net
In a rear end collision the vehicle at the back is almost always found at fault. Regardless of why the front vehicle stopped. So even if the vehicle in front just slammed on their breaks to avoid missing the turn, the vehicle behind them should have stopped. IANAL YMMV

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
In the situation I described in my last post, and I am sorry if I did not make this clear, the turning car got broadsided by the car in the outside lane.

BoulderHill1

join:2004-07-15
Montgomery, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
Am I to understand that the broadsided car is making a left into the parking lot?

Driver in inside northbound lane has no authority to "wave" southbound driver through. Inside northbound may be just trying to help but this driver can not know or speak for the outside north lane's actions and therefore should not try to direct southbound drivers movements.

Additionally southbound driver should not accept the wave through because they most likely do not have a clear line of sight of outside northbound lane's traffic.

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
said by BoulderHill1:

Am I to understand that the broadsided car is making a left into the parking lot?

You are correct in your understanding.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to wolfy339
said by wolfy339:

Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

AFAIK, ensuring your own safe crossing is always your own responsibility regardless of any waving others may give you - you are the one making the decision to trust others' advice instead of verifying things for yourself.

At most, north inner might get cited for obstructing traffic since he is not supposed to stop on the left/fast lane unless he is either turning left or on a stop sign/light.

Blind left turns through oncoming traffic lanes are scary. One of my closest calls was when the driver behind a truck waiting on a left turn decided to change lanes in the middle of the intersection just as I was passing by the truck, half-way into my own left turn.

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to OldCableGuy
said by OldCableGuy :

In a rear end collision the vehicle at the back is almost always found at fault. Regardless of why the front vehicle stopped. So even if the vehicle in front just slammed on their breaks to avoid missing the turn, the vehicle behind them should have stopped. IANAL YMMV

That is false, they are not always at fault. If a car in front of you purposely hits the brakes and you hit them, your not always going to be at fault. Like in a road rage situation, the person changes lanes to get right in front of you and slams on their brakes, how is that your fault?
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No Victim=No Crime

tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by billydunwood:

said by OldCableGuy :

In a rear end collision the vehicle at the back is almost always found at fault. Regardless of why the front vehicle stopped. So even if the vehicle in front just slammed on their breaks to avoid missing the turn, the vehicle behind them should have stopped. IANAL YMMV

That is false, they are not always at fault.

Bold added to clarify.

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

said by wolfy339:

Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

AFAIK, ensuring your own safe crossing is always your own responsibility regardless of any waving others may give you - you are the one making the decision to trust others' advice instead of verifying things for yourself.

At most, north inner might get cited for obstructing traffic since he is not supposed to stop on the left/fast lane unless he is either turning left or on a stop sign/light.

Blind left turns through oncoming traffic lanes are scary. One of my closest calls was when the driver behind a truck waiting on a left turn decided to change lanes in the middle of the intersection just as I was passing by the truck, half-way into my own left turn.

Let me further clarify...the situation I described is something that happened. I happen to know one of the drivers involved and, as I remember, the way it was explained to her by the responding officer is that, while the turning driver was cited as being at fault, technically the driver in the NB inside lane was at fault for improperly signalling the SB inside driver to proceed with her turn.
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OldCableGuy

@planetcr.net
reply to billydunwood
Yeah that's why I specifically said "ALMOST ALWAYS"

Although good luck proving that the car in front of you cut you off and slammed their breaks. It is your word against theirs, and in those cases I know from personal experience the cops will default to citing the person in the furthest back vehicle.

Now if the front driver says "yeah I got in front of him and slammed my breaks" then sure, the cops will cite the front driver. Anything else, and the cops are going to cite the car in the back.

To repeat: ALMOST ALWAYS, ALMOST ALWAYS

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
Your right about almost always. I didn't read carefully enough
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No Victim=No Crime

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to wolfy339
said by wolfy339:

technically the driver in the NB inside lane was at fault for improperly signalling the SB inside driver to proceed with her turn.

"Technically", sure.

Legally and for insurance purposes? Most likely not.

Ensuring that following instructions or signalization can be done safely as far as one can reasonably be expected to from the driver's seat is always the drivers' responsibility.

As someone else said, the north-inner driver most likely waved only for himself. South should still have watched out for north-outer while on his way through north-inner's lane. Depending on how heavy traffic is, this could brew its own lot of embarrassing situations.


Pete Post

@rr.com
reply to wolfy339
said by wolfy339:

Just a quickie, I think this is similar to the situation that the OP is describing: Driver trying to turn into a parking lot from a four lane (two lanes each direction) road. Driver in question is in the inside southbound lane, driver in inside northbound lane waves her through and she is hit by a driver in the outside northbound lane. Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

Note: Inside lane is the lane closest to the center line, outside lane is the lane closest to the curb.

The person turning left in front of moving traffic would be at fault NOT the person "waving them through", it is ALWAYS your responsibility to make sure the lane is CLEAR before you turn.

wolfy339

join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
said by Pete Post :

said by wolfy339:

Just a quickie, I think this is similar to the situation that the OP is describing: Driver trying to turn into a parking lot from a four lane (two lanes each direction) road. Driver in question is in the inside southbound lane, driver in inside northbound lane waves her through and she is hit by a driver in the outside northbound lane. Driver in inside northbound lane (who waved the turning driver through) is at fault.

Note: Inside lane is the lane closest to the center line, outside lane is the lane closest to the curb.

The person turning left in front of moving traffic would be at fault NOT the person "waving them through", it is ALWAYS your responsibility to make sure the lane is CLEAR before you turn.

Try telling that to the officer at the scene.
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