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Jobbie
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reply to Krisnatharok

Re: [Game] Riot tells pro LoL players they can't stream competing games

If you read shinjuru's extract of the contract it says ,"the following companies or products are not to be advertised during or adjacent League of Legends content during the term".
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Krisnatharok
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said by Jobbie:

If you read shinjuru's extract of the contract it says ,"the following companies or products are not to be advertised during or adjacent League of Legends content during the term".

From the article linked in the Ars story:

Update, 11:20AM PST: onGamers has confirmed with the team representatives that LCS players are disallowed from streaming the games listed below outright, not just when adjacent to a League of Legends stream. Under Section 3 Rule 4 of the new contract handling 'Non-League Events and Streaming', it states that "... the [LCS] Team shall ensure that, during the Term of this Agreement, its Team Members do not publicly stream gameplay of the titles set forth on Exhibit B". Exhibit B states "the specific restrictions on streaming are set forth in the Sponsorship and Streaming Restricted List, as updated by the League from time to time", which is the document listed below.

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Jobbie
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Then Riot is the one breaching their own contract which is stupid.
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Krisnatharok
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What Shinjuru posted is not the entire contract, but what is likely referred to as "Exhibit B."



Jobbie
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Exactly and what you posted links to the "Sponsorship and Streaming Restricted list" which is the same thing.
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Krisnatharok
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The article also has clarifying updates from onGamers and Whalen Rozelle (aka RiotMagus) on Reddit.



f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

You literally linked the Slasher article that I said was slanted lol.



Krisnatharok
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said by f0rtys3ven:

You literally linked the Slasher article that I said was slanted lol.

So are you saying it's factually incorrect?

Edit, how is this slanted, either in the original story or with the updates:
said by Original :

Original Story: With less than three weeks until Riot's Battle of the Atlantic tournament, teams and players are being finalized for Season 4 of Riot's League of Legends Championship Series (LCS). With the new season on the horizon, contracts have been sent out to owners of current LCS teams.

onGamers has obtained a section of the 2014 League of Legends Championship Series contracts sent to team owners. In the section we were provided, new regulations are stipulated for what games players can and and cannot stream. The "Sponsorship and Streaming Restricted List" states that 'the following companies and/or products are not to be advertised during or adjacent to League of Legends," during the term of the agreement (duration of the contract). onGamers has confirmed with several team representatives that the document provided is real.

The most notable games among the restricted list are Dota 2, Hearthstone, World of WarCraft, StarCraft, and the World of Tanks/World of Planes franchises. Gambling and poker websites, including those that do esports betting, are also off limits. Drugs, guns, pornography and tobacco products round out the list of restrictions. The full list can be found from the screenshot of the contract below:

Riot Games declined an onGamers request for comment on the restrictions. Hi-Rez Studios also declined.

said by Update, 11:20AM PST :

onGamers has confirmed with the team representatives that LCS players are disallowed from streaming the games listed below outright, not just when adjacent to a League of Legends stream. Under Section 3 Rule 4 of the new contract handling 'Non-League Events and Streaming', it states that "... the [LCS] Team shall ensure that, during the Term of this Agreement, its Team Members do not publicly stream gameplay of the titles set forth on Exhibit B". Exhibit B states "the specific restrictions on streaming are set forth in the Sponsorship and Streaming Restricted List, as updated by the League from time to time", which is the document listed below.

said by Update, 2:45PM PST :

Director of Esports at Riot GamesWhalen 'RiotMagus' Rozelle confirmed in a Reddit thread that the streaming and advertisement restrictions we reported on are, in fact, in place. His comment can be found below:

We say this all the time: we want League of Legends to be a legitimate sport. There are some cool things that come from that (salaried professional athletes, legitimate revenue streams, visas, Staples Center), but there’s also a lot of structural work that needs to be done to ensure a true professional setting.

We recognize there may be some differences of opinion in the perception of pro players’ streams. In the past, pro gamers only had to worry about their personal brands when streaming and, at most, may have had to worry about not using the wrong brand of keyboard to keep their sponsor happy. Now, however, these guys are professionals contracted to a professional sports league. When they’re streaming to 50,000 fans, they’re also representing the sport itself.

I can’t stress enough how these guys in the LCS are on the road to being real, legitimate athletes. This is new territory for a lot of teams (especially in esports), because the transition goes from being a group of talented individuals to being real icons of a sport and a league. Similarly, you probably wouldn’t see an NFL player promoting Arena Football or a Nike-sponsored player wearing Reebok on camera. Pro players are free to play whatever games they want – we’re simply asking them to keep in mind that, on-stream, they’re the face of competitive League of Legends.

Whalen Rozelle

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Jobbie
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Welcome to "Pro" gaming, I bet that is how the professional sports have to deal with their sponsoring contracts.
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f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

I had to break out the phone as all the readings on the work comp are blocked.

It seems from the pros they got a raise and the restrictions.
So yes it seems they will be barred from playing the competitors games as their league personas but it came with a raise in salary.
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f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

They didn't have the contract so they didn't know exactly what the players agreed to.

Edit: This is obvious because they had to make edits to the article and afterwards consult magnus to cover their butts over the blow back. If it was a big big deal the Pros would be bitching but they got paid so its not a big deal.



Krisnatharok
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reply to f0rtys3ven

If anything, the Slasher/Evoli article is a hard news story of "just the facts."

I believe you're calling it slanted because you support Riot 'professionalizing' the pro League scene through LCS with these sorts of content restrictions, and it does not have the context or analysis of the Ars story, which lends the reader to think this is an unfair move on Riot's part.

There's nothing wrong supporting Riot on this one (as I believe the end result will be an overall benefit for gamers and PC gaming), but I disagree with the pro gamers = athletes analogy, as computer games do not have the lasting power of sports (the NFL has been around since 1920), and continued advancements in computer technology means that games that are popular now will not have the same following in 10 years.

If anything, and this is just IMHO, Riot should be helping push a MOBA pro gaming league in conjunction with Blizzard and Hi-Rez, or else they better release a new engine in another 5 years.
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Krisnatharok
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reply to f0rtys3ven

said by f0rtys3ven:

They didn't have the contract so they didn't know exactly what the players agreed to.

Edit: This is obvious because they had to make edits to the article and afterwards consult magnus to cover their butts over the blow back. If it was a big big deal the Pros would be bitching but they got paid so its not a big deal.

Yeah, you're clearly not writing that from the pro-Riot POV at all. The initial story had the leaked of page of co-streaming another game "during or adjacent to" an LCS match. The reality, which has since been confirmed, is that LCS gamers are barred completely from streaming any of the listed games while they are on contract with Riot, which is way more restrictive than what the initial story indicated.

The update including Rozelle's comments on Reddit was not CYA on the writer's part, but simply the party line from Riot hyping the benefits of changing the contract, without mentioning the hurt in Twitch views.

The actual Reddit thread, with over 6000 replies (in a sub that rarely has a thread break 100 replies), is available here: »www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends···_cannot/

said by f0rtys3ven:

Edit: This is obvious because they had to make edits to the article and afterwards consult magnus to cover their butts over the blow back. If it was a big big deal the Pros would be bitching but they got paid so its not a big deal.

Again, you make it sounds as if the original article was inaccurate or false and the writers had to backtrack. The reality appears to be that the contract is more restrictive that it seemed at first glance, and the community has blown up about it.
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f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

I'd prefer media wait to have facts before articles as anything less leads to pointless discussion over nothing. Slant was the incorrect word to use.

Yes I think Riot does good work. Yes thats obvious in my writing. No I am not trying to say I am not slanted.

Pro gamers = Althletes is the only way we can conceptualize E - Sports. The NFL is the perfect model because its been around since 1920.
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Jobbie
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reply to Krisnatharok

said by Krisnatharok:

I disagree with the pro gamers = athletes analogy

They are getting paid by a company to play their game and are dedicated full time to do it, with trainers, coaches etc. This happens in the real business world too, you are not allowed to even talk to a competitor company.
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Krisnatharok
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reply to f0rtys3ven

said by f0rtys3ven:

I'd prefer media wait to have facts before articles as anything less leads to pointless discussion over nothing. Slant was the incorrect word to use.

Well, there is such a thing as breaking news... the updates were not 'edits' but actual updates with corroborating information. Breaking newsflashes happen all the time in the news industry.
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Krisnatharok
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reply to Jobbie

said by Jobbie:

said by Krisnatharok:

I disagree with the pro gamers = athletes analogy

They are getting paid by a company to play their game and are dedicated full time to do it, with trainers, coaches etc. This happens in the real business world too, you are not allowed to even talk to a competitor company.

The way I see it is that E-Sports are a niche, and Riot would be better served supporting the entire genre of getting the word out about pro MOBA gaming as opposed to limiting the exposure of professional gamers on Twitch. If they want to get the word out about E-Sports, they do it more successfully if they could professionalize their back-end so they don't have to restart games in the world series because of disconnects, power outages, or server crashes/DDOSes.

If this goes through, I'd give more credit for advancing E-Sports to the semi-pro players on Twitch who stream and play a variety of games over the LCS "super stars" who do nothing but play League of Legends all year.
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f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

Breaking news is broken in this country.

Edits Updates Revisions Changes - These are not the synonyms you are looking for.

I think League is really big right now and I think if they can continue to keep the fans they have they don't have to grow a ton to keep doing this for at least a couple more seasons. The international scene is very big.
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Krisnatharok
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said by f0rtys3ven:

Breaking news is broken in this country.

Edits Updates Revisions Changes - These are not the synonyms you are looking for.

Look dude, you sound like a paid Riot schill here. onGamers got a story, and Riot declined comment prior to release.

Once it was published, and once the subsequent shitstorm hit the fan in the community, then Riot was forced to come out and defend their move. Which was actually a lot worse than initially indicated.

To quote Slashered on Reddit:

As the author of this article I wanted to clarify and update since there's been a misleading title attached to it.

I have added an additional part of the contract (in text) and have confirmed with team and player representatives that the LCS players are not allowed to stream the games outright, no matter if it is next to a LoL stream or not.

Added update to the article:

"Under Section 3 Rule 4 of the new contract handling 'Non-League Events and Streaming', it states that "... the [LCS] Team shall ensure that, during the Term of this Agreement, its Team Members do not publicly stream gameplay of the titles set forth on Exhibit B". Exhibit B states "the specific restrictions on streaming are set forth in the Sponsorship and Streaming Restricted List, as updated by the League from time to time", which is listed below"

Diamond opening Hearthstone on stream just to break the rules: »i.imgur.com/5BtJCj3.jpg
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Krisnatharok
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A lot of people in the Reddit thread are saying "Totalbiscuit was right." I can't see it at work, but apparently TB went on a rant at some point in the past about Riot having too much power over their pro players, given that Riot advertises itself as E-sports ("We Are Gamers, We Are Esports") and they are making a move to minimize the popularity of other pro gaming scenes so League continues to dominate. That has everything to do with enhancing Riot's bottom line, and nothing to do with being "pro gaming."

While it's technically legal, it's a scumbag move made in the interest of profits, not "professionalizing the E-Sports scene."

Apparently they are also silently removing "featured LoL streamers" if those people also stream other games. While no contract is signed for something like that, it's just further proof that Riot is not the "for the gamer" company it once may have been, and is instead motivated simply by profit and brand growth.
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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.



f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

Guys I receive monthly checks from Riot to promote League of Legends here on DSLR.

I thought that was obvious. Maybe you are losing your senses in your old age KrisN.

* This was all said with a white Russian in hand *
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I eat rappers with the rhyme. Consume 'em. The only fucking thing you consume is time. I'm superhuman.



f0rtys3ven
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reply to Krisnatharok

^ Said light heartedly. The post before that had a star wars reference again spoken like whipped cream.

All moves are made with the interest of profit.

I don't understand how this isn't understood by everyone in this country when it is so painstakingly obvious.

"Professionalizing the E-Sports Scene" is equivalent to "Preparing E-Sports to be actual sports profitable" I don't know how it can be read any different. At this point Riot isn't making NFL or even a single NFL teams money but they are building the infrastructure to get there. Why be pissed they are trying to take what we like to do for fun and make it a national past time?

Are we pissed its League? Are we pissed its not us being paid? Are we really pissed we won't get to watch OddOne play Hearthstone? Are we mad Riot is handing our rules to the people they pay?

I don't understand the aggression/fuel for the fire its mind boggling to me.
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I eat rappers with the rhyme. Consume 'em. The only fucking thing you consume is time. I'm superhuman.



Jobbie
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Totalbiscuit video:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGzoA6hXE8E

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ekster
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On an unrelated note... Jobbie, you should totally do videos like Totalbiscuit or AngryJoe... with that sexy voice of yours, you'd have a following of millions in no time.



f0rtys3ven
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I agree with this comment 10000%



Ghastlyone
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reply to ekster

said by ekster:

On an unrelated note... Jobbie, you should totally do videos like Totalbiscuit or AngryJoe... with that sexy voice of yours, you'd have a following of millions in no time.

Jobbie aint' jokin when he says he's from Mexico.


Jobbie
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When I started playing online games and my english sucked (more than now) people thought I was french, later when I started playing with the DSLR folks Antonica for some reason thought I was from Morocco(???). Fun times.

I always wanted to start streaming and doing youtube stuff maybe should be a project for 2014.
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Krisnatharok
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1 recommendation

reply to f0rtys3ven

lol, no offense taken, man. It just seemed like you were more upset with how this was reported, instead of the fact that Riot is making a really scummy move, in the purported name of E-Sports, but one that will benefit only Riot, and hurt every other game that has a place at the E-Sports table.

Given their "We Are Gamers" mantra, it is really infuriating to the fan base. There is now talk of a Players Association or pro gamers union to act as a unified front against Riot. Think about that. At least some are saying there is an identified need to protect the (pro) players FROM Riot.

A good counter example was Valve--they have a $2+ million tournament and many, many DOTA 2 events throughout the year (which have snagged 4 of the top 10 highest earnings from e-sports).

But Valve (and Blizzard) do not create these type of rules, they simply create give the players the tools to host these tournaments and don't particularly care that the "pro gamers" might be playing other games.

It seems like Riot is scared of the competition, and wants the whole E-Sports profit pot to themselves. Riot wants to be E-Sports, and push Valve and Blizzard away from the table. It's like they think E-Sports is a zero-sum game with no possibility of market growth.

Imagine if those three companies had banded together to found an E-Sports franchise with teams (sometimes the same people) competing in LoL, DOTA 2, CS, Blizz All-Stars, etc. The press coverage would have been exponentially more than a simple Riot tournament.

But no. This move is being heard loud and clear by gamers that Riot is now in it for their bottom line, even at the expense of the gaming scene as a whole. Very well then.
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Jobbie
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I like what you are saying.

/approve
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f0rtys3ven
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reply to Jobbie

I think he has some ok points.

His reasons why its bad is follows:

- Only helps Riot doesn't help E-Sports as a whole
- Shows lack of respect for Pro Players as their own personality
- Regulates the streaming industry which has been unregulated to date
- Inconsistent game choices are confusing
- Is too much like regular sports thinking

Personally the only point I have an issue with is the lack of respect for Pro Players. If the players aren't happy they can work with their teams and the other teams in the industry to change it. TSM, CLG, CURSE, and Dignitas could most definitely pool their influence and say this is crap and it would most likely make a difference. They aren't doing this because monetary reward with dealing with this is worth it. Theres a reason Jerry Jones owns the Cowboys and spent a billion on a stadium.

Also I don't think this is Riot saying we own you or we built your brands. I feel like its much more symbiotic than that. Hey we would like you guys to quit playing other really popular games on these huge streams. How about we expand challenger by a big amount and pay you more to not play those other games. Is that cool? How many people say no I don't want more money?

The rest of them become overshadowed by the hopes of sports like profit. The profits professional sports make is pretty astronomical and little things like niceties will be left by the wayside for the possibility of achieving them.
--
I eat rappers with the rhyme. Consume 'em. The only fucking thing you consume is time. I'm superhuman.