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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

2 edits

2 recommendations

"Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

»www.pcworld.com/article/2068300/···ow-.html from »www.pcworld.com/article/2070661/···uge.html from »www.hardocp.com/news/2013/12/08/···be_huge/ ... Security was mentioned.

I might upgrade my very old, updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 during Christmas 2013 break. Maybe, maybe not. It works fine for what I do. I don't play computer games and anything fancy like I used to. What about the rest of you still with Windows XP SP3?
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.



sivran
Seamonkey's back
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

I have three XP systems kickin around which will never see a higher version Windows OS. If I change OS on them, they'll be going to linux. In all seriousness, the two desktops ought to just be flat out decomissioned, but I haven't got around to replacing them yet.

As for the lappy, it can run Win 8 (more than I can say for the two single-core, low RAM desktops), but is old enough I don't see it as a worthy investment.

Come to think of it, I never did delete XP64 from my primary desktop, which now runs 8. I could flip a switch in the bios and boot XP64 any time I want, but so far, I've never bothered. I should delete it and reclaim some hard drive space.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?



beck
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-29
On The Road
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

For people still running XP, the only reason I see for them to be forced to upgrade is security.
--
Are YOU just a turkey voting for xmas?



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

1 recommendation

Well whats scary is IF MICROSOFT WANTS EVERYONE OFF XP TO A NEWER OS THEY PROBABLY CAN DO IT!!!!!!

»web.archive.org/web/201307190131···soft.htm

said by sivran :
I have three XP systems kickin around which will never see a higher version Windows OS.
Good for you Sivran... You like XP the same as I like Win98se and NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TELL US WE CANT BE ON IT!! (Even microsoft)


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
USA
kudos:24

3 recommendations

reply to antdude

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

Some cannot upgrade to anything else. Some computers don't have enough memory, etc., to do so. Even if security is a huge issue for them, they haven't the wear-withal, for one reason and another, to run anything else.



carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

2 recommendations

I have 2 OFFLINE XP computers. They run specialized software, and I see no reason to upgrade them. I have a Linux box for online purchases and banking, and a 7 laptop just to read fora and groups.



altermatt
Premium
join:2004-01-22
White Plains, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to antdude

Although I finally made the move to a new desktop running Win 8.1 (and not hating it as much as I thought ), my ancient desktop that's an extra machine will not run anything newer, and still has some programs I like and can't update. And my laptop probably could handle Vista (which I'd never install), but I doubt it can handle Win 8. While the old desktop is really ready for retirement, the lappy still has some good years in it. Since I'm using my Android tablet more and more for the road, I just can't see springing for a new laptop right now.
--
The truth of a thing is the feel of it, not the think of it. -- Stanley Kubrick


Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

There's still a ton of them (hundreds) that I/my employer are responsible for that will still be running XP after the expiration. It's going to be a fun 2014.



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

NEVER!!!


JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Dude111

Re: ‏

said by Dude111:

You like XP the same as I like Win98se and NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TELL US WE CANT BE ON IT!! (Even microsoft)

Until Microsoft goes to a subscription based OS model, that is true. You're free to run 95/98/Me all you want, complete with their well-known never-to-be-patched security holes. Hell, you could still run DOS and 3.1 if you want and stick it online provided you install the TCP/IP stack. That's the only reason for upgrading in the first place in most cases, patching security holes the provider isn't fixing.


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

2 recommendations

reply to antdude

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

What will finally "do in" WinXP will be the diminishing software and hardware products (or upgrades/updates) that will be package-rated as compatible for XP. Most users of an expiring OS will hang in there in spite of the future possible OS security issues, but they'll finally toss in the towel as their systems can no longer be updated for the apps or utilities needed to run on it. Likewise, new or upgraded hardware will increasingly fail to include XP drivers or will be rated for interfaces that are simply not available for XP users. If you've been around for very long in the digital world, you've seen this all before - at least several times.
--
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville


PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

8 recommendations

reply to antdude

The [PC World article] is mostly a bunch of FUD.

Their 3 points are:

1) [Productivity]. Well, my XP machine does what I need it to do. E-mail, Internet, Word Processing. I also have a machine with Windows 7, and that is NOT any more "productive" than XP. As far as automatic maintenance, those are things that I want to do for myself.

2) [New technology]. Well, if I get a new computer it will of course have a new OS. But for my present XP machine, my technology works FINE and will continue to work fine (printer, monitor). I don't need Bluetooth and I don't need USB 3.0 or beyond.

3) [Security]. That's a laugh. The biggest virus is the Windows OS itself. Most of the Microsoft security issues can be avoided by NOT going online with Internet Explorer, by NOT by using a Microsoft e-mail program, and by NOT using MS Office--- (PLENTY of alternatives for all of these).

3a) And machines should be protected by hardware firewall, updated software firewall, closed ports, updated AV, possible separate malware defense like MalwareBytes, system hardening (HIPS) tools, and by NOT using IE or Outlook (as above).

3b) Smart behavior, of course, and stay off any site you wouldn't want your wife to see. And don't open any e-mail that doesn't seem to make sense.

3c) Take advantage of new protections like the free defense against Cryptolocker malware .
»www.foolishit.com/vb6-projects/c···prevent/

3d) And use a Hosts file manager such as Hosts Man.
»www.abelhadigital.com/hostsman

-----

So where is the OS in all of this?

There's a science fiction story in which 3 male astronauts from the 20th century are time-warped into a future world in which only women survive.

The women tell those 3 men that they won't be useful.

The men protest that they can help protect the women.

But the women say, "We've studied your history. The only protective role for men in society was protecting against OTHER men". So the women make the astronauts drink poison.

Microsoft Updates are largely like that too.

Of course machines should be kept updated where possible. But after next April there is NOT going to be open season on XP machines PROVIDED THAT the machines are reasonably protected---

----As any machine should be ANYWAY, even if running Windows 7 or Windows 8 !!


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

2 recommendations

reply to Dude111

Re: ‏

Microsoft is merely telling you that there is no further support. Don't try and turn it into some moral 'rights' issue. Just use it, and don't complain when it isn't updated.

In related news, George 3 hasn't been updated since Mk8.67.



scelli
Native New Yorker
Premium
join:1999-08-07
FLOT/FEBA
kudos:1
reply to Dude111

Do you not see the incongruity between your first comment of:

said by Dude111:

Well whats scary is IF MICROSOFT WANTS EVERYONE OFF XP TO A NEWER OS THEY PROBABLY CAN DO IT!!!!!!

...and the second comment stating the exact opposite:

said by Dude111:

Good for you Sivran... You like XP the same as I like Win98se and NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TELL US WE CANT BE ON IT!! (Even microsoft)

According to this mumbo-jumbo of a posting, MS can either force you to change or they can't.

Which is it?
--
The maximum effective range of an excuse is ZERO meters!


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to PX Eliezer

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

Hmm. I went down the same path with my Win98FE system.
1) My Win98 machine did what I needed it to do. That is, until MS Excel went over to xlsx format, and I could no longer get my Excel97 to open and write-access legitimate data files from outsiders... and I couldn't get a newer xlsx-compatible version of Excel to install that was also compatible with Win98FE.
2) My technology on the Win98FE system worked FINE until I needed to get a new monitor and discovered the drivers weren't rated for Win98 at all. On that system, USB support was at 1.x, which raised havoc with using most current USB flash sticks; I now limp along with an old, small-screen backup monitor.
3a) AV was no longer available at all, for any price, for Win98FE. Ditto for most other anti-malware and utilities.
3b) Smart behavior worked for a time, but increasingly I found myself "holding my breath", only taking the system online at all on rare occasions (risks being drive-by's in legitimate site banner ads, etc)
3c) Crytolocker is available currently for XP thru 8.1, but not for 98... and the day will come when it (like many other software tools) will not be available for XP
3d) A Hosts file is about the only line of defense still available for 98FE.

Bottom line: my Win98 system is still in use for some off-line work, but it has been online (with grossly-outdated AV signatures) only once in 12 months, that only to briefly visit a highly-respected website needed to check out something on the system. This will be the future for nearly all XP systems a few years hence.
--
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville


PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

said by Blackbird:

Bottom line: my Win98 system is still in use for some off-line work, but it has been online (with grossly-outdated AV signatures) only once in 12 months, that only to briefly visit a highly-respected website needed to check out something on the system. This will be the future for nearly all XP systems a few years hence.

Well, yes, but Windows 98 is [3 years older] than Windows XP.

And---XP is more prevalent than 98 ever was. XP was a seminal event.

But your point is well taken.

Still, it reminds of this story:

A poor peasant obtained an audience with the Czar, and asked him for a grant of money.

The Czar was amused, he gave the money, but said to the peasant: "In return, you must return here in a year, and during that time you must teach your horse to talk! If you fail you will be executed".

The man went home and told his wife, who was quite upset.

"Why be upset?" said the peasant.

"In a year, I may already be dead, or the Czar may be dead, or the horse may learn to talk!"

So in that spirit, I say that I'm not going to worry so much about XP, and that 98 is a different horse entirely.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

3 recommendations

reply to antdude

Every month one or another guy, paid by the company developing Windows OS, makes a pitch here and there how everyone now should dump Windows XP and rush to a nearest store and buy a "new" (better-than-ever) OS from the same company...

said by Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now :

You really, really need to dump Windows XP.

Really? What is your suggestion, my dear? Shell out money and buy a new OS for that old computer? Dump the whole computer into trash? Thanks, but no thanks. If you know how to use it, WXP running on those old computers is productive, secure, and you know what, it can live without USB-3 support (prime reason why do I need that "new technology").

Guys, don't you thing that it's getting boring? And I mean both - (a) reading every next month very similar article in another magazine, sponsored by OS manufacturer, and (b) discussing it here, in this forum...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

Right.

I would not have minded upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7, but Microsoft has failed to provide a direct upgrade path.

Thay wanted people to go XP to [Vista] to 7. Boo on that.

I'm not going to spend a couple of days of my time, or spend money buying 3rd-party conversion software on top of paying MS for Win7, just to go from WinXP to Win7.


VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to antdude

All of this talk about XP's poor security in light of MS withdrawing support (and as I read it, shutting down the auto-update servers) on April 2014, is kind of funny. It's like no-one has heard of how using SRP in Pro, along with a limited-user account, can shut down nearly all (I've never seen it be breached personally) malware in its tracks.


PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

reply to OZO

said by OZO:

Really? What is your suggestion, my dear? Shell out money and buy a new OS for that old computer? Dump the whole computer into trash? Thanks, but no thanks.

And---

What are we supposed to migrate [to]?

Windows 7 has been tossed to the side by Microsoft. That's why they stopped after just one service pack, to focus on their new darling Windows 8. There are many reports of this.

-----

And Windows [8] has two problems:

1) It's a piece of crap.

2) According to the German government at least, there are concerns about backdoors in that OS.

-----

Hell, we can all go to Linux but somehow I don't think that MS would like that either.

LisaNelmes

join:2013-11-26
UK

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

I use Windows XP system , it is easy to use



intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to antdude

said by antdude:

I might upgrade my very old, updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 during Christmas 2013 break. Maybe, maybe not. It works fine for what I do. I don't play computer games and anything fancy like I used to. What about the rest of you still with Windows XP SP3?

Upgrade to Linux, security problem solved and as a bonus you can verify that the NSA didn't do something funky with the source as they have with Windows:
»www.computerworld.com/s/article/···elopment

And have placed backdoors into your drive encryption to defeat it:
»hackingly.org/nsa/backdoor-in-tr···281.html
--
You think theres no games for Linux? »desura.com »gameolith.com »humblebundle.com »playdeb.net »ubuntuvibes.com

Check out »youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT/videos »freespeech.org and »democracynow.org

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

I've never heard of Aero Snap but I only had the public beta of Win 7 and didn't like Win 7. I like to work full screen (I still have a real monitor for Windows... not one for movies on a computer so I want to take advantage of that) and hate distracting things so I would never have several windows open at the same time although I might have 4 browsers open at the same time and several other programs all but the one I am on currently minimized to the task bar. XP has a far superior task bar to Windows 7 or 8.

File History in Windows 8 was one of the first things I turned off. Microsoft wants you to use the cloud for it and I gather that is even more forced down users throats in 8.1 (which I don't have and may never upgrade to as I see only one reason to get it). Yeah, you can do File History on an external drive but my external drive is not big enough and I don't have the money or desire to get a bigger one just for that. My small external drive is large enough to store photos, music, etc but I could just store only on DVD which I also do but I could do just DVD storage.

As for Automatic Maintenance, I have no need for it and it takes away my control over my computer so I disabled it right away also when I got a computer with Windows 8 Pro. Dell installed what appeared to be a neat system maintenance program but it turned out to be the cause of frequent crashes (others have reported the same) and as soon as I uninstalled it the computer was fine. I also got rid of all the Intel Rapid Storage crap that was eating lots of RAM and doing nothing useful. Again, the computer runs much better without it (and again many others have found the same).

I have a 14.5 year old HP DeskJet printer that is still GREAT. It runs on USB 2 connected to my XP Pro machine. Sure, I have USB 3 ports on my new machine and I haven't used them once in the year I have had this machine (thought I could use one with my Win 8 Reinstallation USB stick but that causes problems). I don't have any devices that use USB 3. I'll get something some day probably but having USB 3 now is not a reason to buy Windows 8 for me.

As for security, my XP Pro machine runs Service Pack 2 so it has had no security updates for three years now. I haven't gotten infected so I sure won't be worrying about security when support ceases for XP. The ONLY reason to get 8.1 is so that one can continue to get security updates once Windows 8.0 is three years old. I doubt that will be enough reason for me to update to it because it is obvious that Microsoft put out 8.1 so fast just to screw with 8.0 users and force them to get the far more invasive 8.1 with no improvements and 8.1 does petty crap like the Windows Start button in Start 8 is forbidden in 8.1. I love it and for me it wouldn't be forbidden because I have WindowsBlind with a modified Stardock Windows 8 theme and Microsoft was not able to force Stardock to remove the Windows start button from their themes like they were able to force them to remove it from Start8 itself. That's petty of Microsoft. I don't trust Microsoft to not stop Start8 entirely on 8.1 so I will likely just stay with 8.0 for the life of the computer.

As for XP, I will be using SP 2 for as long as my XP Pro computer continues to run.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to antdude

If it's connected to the network I agree you should migrate away from XP for security reasons alone... but something interesting I am seeing here... many talking about very old machines.

Have any of you considered the power use?

I used to have several older machines running all sorts of processes and experiments because I just couldn't get rid of them (the tech hoarder in me)... but after a disaster took out most of those machines I am amazed at the power usage reduction with the replacements.

Fewer machines doing more work than the older machines.... and even on projects that require their own hardware... that hardware is so much more efficient power wise. Just another thing to think about as the end of XP's official support rushes towards us.



anonome

@verizon.net
reply to antdude

Unless I do a major h/w upgrade, I have no reason to update the OS. I'll just replace the old system with a new system (which I last did about 3 years ago--XP to 7). I still run XP for my "music box" (has all of my ripped CDs), so zero concerns about updates, patches, or security. The last time I replaced an OS on a box it was going from NT4 to Win2k--it still made sense back then (very little in the way of h/w changes); and, yes, those boxes still run Win2k (though I haven't even turned them on in years).



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to PX Eliezer

said by PX Eliezer:

1) [Productivity]. Well, my XP machine does what I need it to do. E-mail, Internet, Word Processing. I also have a machine with Windows 7, and that is NOT any more "productive" than XP. As far as automatic maintenance, those are things that I want to do for myself.

I also think the productivity argument is somewhat bogus.

"Aero Snap, which appeared in Windows 7, makes maximizing, minimizing, and organizing windows as simple as dragging them to the edge of the display. "

Whoopie. I was able to alt-tab between windows easily enough with XP. Back with Outlook 98 and Office, I was just as productive on an XP machine with decent memory. Obviously if you're running a high-end video editing application or something that won't be true, but for the average person working in e-mail, Word documents, and spreadsheets? No.

Yeah, the security is going to be the kicker. Load it up with Linux. To spend $100 for a 7 or 8 license for an ancient machine is just a waste of money IMO. But that might not be feasible in some environments.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Yeah, it's bogus writing all right. Like 'drag to edge' is somehow more 'productive' than clicking on a maximize button.

(Actually, I find it negatively useful - I never use full-screen, and thus automatic maximization is a pain in the arse. But since it's easy enough to turn it off, I'm not particularly bothered by the fact of its existence)


PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric
reply to Ian

said by Ian:

[Quoting from the magazine article]:
"Aero Snap, which appeared in Windows 7, makes maximizing, minimizing, and organizing windows as simple as dragging them to the edge of the display. "

Like you, I was astounded that the magazine article included such a frivolous reason for getting rid of XP.

It proves that the people running the magazine serve Microsoft and hardware makers, NOT their readers.

My God! It is ridiculous....!

In fact, SO ridiculous that it undermines their credibility.

It's like the shyster defense lawyer who says "My client was holding a knife, and the victim happened to run into it". Such a lawyer does NOT help his client---rather, he gets laughed at.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

said by PX Eliezer:

It proves that the people running the magazine serve Microsoft and hardware makers, NOT their readers.

I'd say not proven. Another explanation is that the author is an imbecile.

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to VirtualLarry

said by VirtualLarry:

(and as I read it, shutting down the auto-update servers)

They aren't shutting them down, at least I haven't heard they are. They simply won't patch any new security holes that are discovered after April 2014. They use Windows Update, just like Vista, 7 and 8 do but they tend to use the website not the update app like the others do. They could potentially shut down the website portion at some point, but there is still an auto updates app in XP (it doesn't get the optional updates IIRC) so updates could continue as long as they keep Windows Update alive and don't replace it with something else.