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rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium Member
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

1 recommendation

rcdailey to antdude

Premium Member

to antdude

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

If your hardware dies for any reason, it won't matter. Mine may have a problem, but that's life or end-of-life.

Banacek
join:2013-12-12
Viking Land

Banacek to ltsnow

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to ltsnow
Thanks friend.
Banacek

1 edit

Banacek to Blackbird

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to Blackbird
Blackbird, unfortunately, you are correct. Thanks for the correction. Upon further research, it appears Avast chose to cease support updates for Win98 not because they really wanted to end support but because they felt the userbase was so small. Less than 1% (actually around 0.3% of PC users) were still using Win98 on the internet as of 2010 and Avast felt it wasn't feasible for them to continue the updates, but also because they state that the structure of how the program and updates work had changed and that new design just didn't function properly on Win98 anymore.

Yes, 4.8 was the last working version for Win98. When you look at the life cycle of version 4.8 it gets confusing because Avast was actually still supporting updates for this version as of 2013, but only for NT based computers, not Win98.

Now, their code works with Windows operating systems from Win2000 on up. The fact that they are still supporting Win2000 is great. I'm sure a lot of businesses, nonprofits, etc., who can't afford upgrade licenses really appreciate that.

It's unfortunate that you can't use your PC with Avast now, but actually it's amazing to reflect on how long Avast did support it, up to 2010. That's pretty remarkable. I think it's great Avast offers its support for as long as they do. Many companies don't do that, they just follow along with Micro$oft's dictates about when to drop support.

Avast has pledged continued support for XP considering that the userbase is so large globally. There are still countries today where XP is the dominant OS, even with the threat looming from Microsoft that they will discontinue support. In countries like Venezuela, Argentina, India, and Taiwan, the number of XP users is around 40% of all PC users. In China, XP users are around 55% of all PC users. In that country alone, that represents roughly over two hundred million XP users. Considering the sum total of XP users globally, you can imagine, the number would be quite large. Four hundred million users? Six hundred million users? That's a lot of people and a lot of PCs.

This must be frustrating and disappointing for Microsoft because the number of XP users is roughly triple the number of users on Windows 8. It seems to me that they need to drop Windows 8 and stick with XP. LOL.

I don't think Windows 7 or 8 quite took off globally the way Microsoft had intended.

Microsoft is making a HUGE gamble by trying to push XP users to Windows 7 or 8. By pushing XP users, Microsoft may end up moving people over to Linux. I think they are misguided and out touch with the public. Because of the global recession, many people don't have the money to upgrade. Combine that with the fact that there is no real incentive to upgrade, XP works great. So, that means you have people that will just adamantly continue to use XP or move over to Linux, both of those options COST NOTHING. This is a dangerous game for Microsoft to be playing. If anything gets under Microsoft's skin, it's the thought of their users defecting to Linux. They hate Linux with a passion. It's funny to think that Microsoft may inadvertently become the world's greatest promoter of Linux. LOL.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by Banacek:

I don't think Windows 7 or 8 quite took off globally the way Micro$oft had intended.

Yah.

But they can't keep this as their basic business model, just forcing people to get new OS over and over again.

That's dead.

So it is good that they are into new projects like the Xbox.

They need MORE new markets---better smartphone OS, better search, more music and video.

They turned over half of their potential dollars to Google, Google Android, Apple iTunes and iPhone, etc, etc.

Instead they just want to make money by OSFUD, the merging of OS and FUD.

Just like organized crime, they need to get OUT of their obsolete businesses, and get into new markets!!
stevepas
join:2009-04-19

stevepas to antdude

Member

to antdude
No upgrade here. I will however have a another look at linux alongside XP.
I would be interested to see how many go the linux way.

My reasons to holdout - I've got my xp pro just the way I like, about 20 system services running, only one port constantly open (norton def update), ram at 300-400mb, on an old quad 6600 at 2.8ghz

I also frequently use win 8 on a new laptop, win 7 on a year old laptop both with
the latest i3 processor technology, should make my old quad seem slow but its often the other way round!!! I will automatically choose my quad to work with.

It might be the tweaks that i have applied to xp that make a big difference,
or something I learnt in my apple days, that if I reinstalled the o/s 1 or 2 times a year it seemed to run smoother/quicker.

Prior to xp I was an apple user, I was often told that XP would come with lots of BSOD and malware but the only alerts I have had turned out to be f.p.'s (I often use various on-demand scanners to check)
I've found Xp to be very impressive and outstandingly reliable.
I can see why people think that xp could be the best ms os ever.

For security - I run tight system settings, lua, etc etc, nortons on aggressive mode, and the legendary processguard hips - amazing what that will intercept re adobe reader wanting to launch various bits of junk when you want to view a pdf, I also have it blocking ms auto updates which even when set to manual would help itself to the settings!!
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

said by stevepas:

For security - I run tight system settings, lua, etc etc, nortons on aggressive mode, and the legendary processguard hips

I have an XP Pro computer and a Windows 8 Pro one. The XP one has Service Pack 2 not 3 and has Avira which dropped support for XP Service Pack 2 quite awhile ago. So, seems I would be quite vulnerable. Nope. I run ProcessGuard full version for many years on that computer and the XP Pro one before it. The XP Pro computer has never been infected. It's a shame what happened with Wayne as Gavin told me that he was going to send me a beta of PG for Vista and then Wayne disappeared. Just think if we could have had PG for Vista and beyond!

Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12

Wolfie00 to dave

Premium Member

to dave
said by dave:

OT: I'm a former DEC employee and am aware of the background to Olsen's remark.

As far as I recall, DEC wasn't building 'classic PC' type systems in 1977, but it was certainly building personal computers in the sense that they were hands-on devices, and the smaller systems (say, 11/10) at least were single-user (at a time) in intent. The LSI 11 (3-chip microprocessor) was introduced in 1975, a couple of years before my time at DEC.

In the mid-1980s I couldn't see the value of MS-DOS and used to say 'my PC is a VAX'.

The context of Ken's remark was that he didn't believe in PC's, period.

DEC was a fantastic engineering organization that suffered from NIH ("not invented here") syndrome, often justifiably, but often causing them to reject technology that would soon become mainstream. Thus, rejecting PC's in favor of the minicomputer architecture, rejecting TCP/IP in favor of the (clearly superior) DECnet/OSI, rejecting UNIX in favor of VMS, etc. Hell, they even tried rejecting Ethernet over twisted-pair until a large customer forced them into it, because they believed their own 10base2 thinwire to be superior, which at the time it was. Their first real PC was called the VAXmate and though it ran a customized early version of Windows it was incompatible as hell, and the name alone shows where their mindset was.

DEC was the undisputed leader of scientific computing with the best technology in the world and I loved them dearly, but just like IBM they utterly failed to grasp the sea change that would soon overwhelm them both. Ken really didn't see what anyone could possibly do with a computer in the home, but in all fairness, neither did almost anyone else.
Wolfie00

Wolfie00 to ltsnow

Premium Member

to ltsnow
said by ltsnow:

IMHO, XP is simply the best operating system ever made.

The best OS ever made by Microsoft, yes. (The best OS ever made was VMS! )

XP actually had a purpose -- to finally bring the robustness of the NT kernel to the consumer. All of its successors were little more than window dressing, so to speak. If OS's could have tail fins, they'd have them in abundance. I mean, translucent borders in Aero? That's a "feature"? Seriously?

As for no longer getting updates for XP, I don't think it will bother me. I routinely have updates turned off.
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

Frodo to antdude

Member

to antdude
The problem with XP going forward is going to be kernel vulnerabilities, such as a font vulnerability.
quote:
The update addresses the vulnerability by correcting the way the Windows kernel-mode driver handles objects in memory.
There was also a Tiff vulnerability recently that involves the graphics driver.

Keeping the kernel secure is going to be the problem going forward after XP security updates cease. These are the kinds of vulnerabilities that don't say "Users whose accounts are configured to have fewer user rights on the system could be less impacted than users who operate with administrative user rights."

I needed new hardware anyway, so I went with Win7 pro which comes with a virtual XP. It seems the proper blend of new and old. It will be supported until the beginning of 2020.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 edit

dave to Wolfie00

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to Wolfie00

...in favor of the (clearly superior) DECnet/OSI

DECnet/OSI (aka Phase V) was overly complicated and late. DECnet Phase IV, by contrast, was pretty damn good for the time.

I had a minor role in implementing Decnet/OSI for VMS. I can tell you that the MOP implementation was really good

The best OS ever made was VMS!

Apart from the godawful process model, which put the CLI in S-mode and had different user images serially activated into U-mode in the same process.

The best OS ever made was RSX11M, round about V3.2.

BTW, I appreciate that you did not use the disgusting term "OpenVMS". VMS on Alpha, good. New bandwaggony name, bad.

Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12

Wolfie00

Premium Member

said by dave:

The best OS ever made was RSX11M, round about V3.2.

BTW, I appreciate that you did not use the disgusting term "OpenVMS". VMS on Alpha, good. New bandwaggony name, bad.

RSX-11M was a pet favorite of mine, but in no way comparable to VMS. It wasn't a timesharing or even general-purpose OS at all, but a compact multi-tasking system with a realtime focus for things like data acquisition. That said, it was indeed robust and a technological work of art. Some of the same people took their learnings and experience to the VAX/VMS project, so VMS was in a sense "RSX-11M: the next generation". Interestingly, the chief architect of both then became the architect of the NT kernel at Microsoft, and you can see some of the same cultural threads running through all three. Cue the chorus of "it's a small world...".

BTW, the idea of VMS on Alpha initially ran into strong ideological opposition from the VMS group -- a good example of the above-mentioned NIH syndrome. The argument was that since VMS was specifically targeted to the VAX, it was ridiculous to try to adapt it to a RISC architecture. And yes, I hated the name "OpenVMS" too.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

You don't think that reordering the ATL every few seconds really constitutes a "timesharing scheduler"?
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr to Blackbird

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to Blackbird
To this day... I have NEVER used a virus scanner for real time protection on ANY of my PC's or other devices. I use AV/Malware bytes only to scan/dis-infect customer network shares and/or disk drives removed from infected customer PC's.

My virus free strategy, center's on avoiding the common infection paths, like M$ IE, M$ Outlook, + the defacto flash, scripts and the use of a linux based firewall(NAT).

I use 3rd party apps as much as possible. Firefox with no script, flash block add on's. An older version of Foxit for PDF's, Open Office for documents, and Pegasus email tied to my own email filtering strategy(100's of email addrs, with defacto sender ID).

intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

intok (banned) to nwrickert

Member

to nwrickert
said by nwrickert:

said by redwolfe_98:

i was looking at a screenshot from a windows 7 computer, earlier, and noticed that it doesn't have a "taskbar"..

that just further convinces me that i will have to switch to using "linux"..

You wouldn't find a taskbar on either my Windows 7 or my linux screen shots. I'm using "auto-hide" on both of those.

Mint with the Mate desktop has a Win95-Win7 style taskbar/Start button.
19579823 (banned)
An Awesome Dude
join:2003-08-04

19579823 (banned) to tkdslr

Member

to tkdslr

quote:
To this day... I have NEVER used a virus scanner for real time protection on ANY of my PC's or other devices.
Well thats good buddy,no one says YOU HAVE TO.... I see people getting so many getting FALSE ALARMS with those things anyway!
stevepas
join:2009-04-19

1 recommendation

stevepas to Mele20

Member

to Mele20

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

said by Mele20:

It's a shame what happened with Wayne as Gavin told me that he was going to send me a beta of PG for Vista and then Wayne disappeared. Just think if we could have had PG for Vista and beyond!

Your right Mele real shame about what happened, Wayne and co's products were very good, If I remember correctly I think port explorer and trojan defence suite were some of their other capable offerings.
With a svelte xp you have the option of running all sorts of extra goodies
Initially I built the quad with 2gb of ram thinking 'Its not going to be enough' about 8 years later I'm still on that same 2gb stick even though I do like to indulge my appetite for various system monitoring/security progs!

Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA

1 recommendation

Thaler to antdude

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to antdude
Eh, if I was forced to upgrade a Windows XP copy for security reasons, I'd probably just slap a supported Linux distro on the box. Better bet to just bank that money towards a new machine anyways.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

Heh, I had to make a poll for myself. :P

»aqfl.net/node/10811

psicop
More human than human
Premium Member
join:2005-12-21
Australia

1 recommendation

psicop to sivran

Premium Member

to sivran

Re: "Windows XP holdouts: 3 reasons you must upgrade now. Yes, now."

quote:
I have three XP systems kickin around which will never see a higher version Windows OS. If I change OS on them, they'll be going to linux.
Which makes more sense that having to fork out $ for Windows 7/8...unless you buy a new unit, then the upgrade would make more sense.

Personally I'd migrate to Linux if my computers were in good working condition.
quote:
Some computers don't have enough memory
Of course, probably the biggest issue.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

2 recommendations

TheMG to antdude

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to antdude
I have a couple of machines still running XP and I won't be upgrading them anytime soon.

However, I'm not doing so because I like XP better, it's because I run software on those machines that simply refuses to work correctly in Vista/7/8. Also on one of them I need the ability to "record" the PC's own audio output, something which is not possible on later versions of Windows without additional 3rd-party software (which costs money and also comes with a few deal-breaking caveats).

These machines are not used for day-to-day general web browsing anyways. Both machines are used for specialized uses that do not necessitate an internet connection. So it would make no sense at all for me to upgrade them.

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium Member
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA

pokesph to antdude

Premium Member

to antdude
said by PX Eliezer1:

Right.

I would not have minded upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7, but Microsoft has failed to provide a direct upgrade path.

They wanted people to go XP to [Vista] to 7. Boo on that.

I'm not going to spend a couple of days of my time, or spend money buying 3rd-party conversion software on top of paying MS for Win7, just to go from WinXP to Win7.

Exactly.

altermatt
Premium Member
join:2004-01-22
White Plains, NY

altermatt to antdude

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to antdude
Here's a very related question: I'm willing to upgrade my laptop to Win 7 IF it could handle it, and IF I could find a copy for sale. I'm pretty sure it could never handle Win 8, which I'm using surprisingly happily on my new desktop. My laptop is a good three years old (or a bit more perhaps) and is running fine with XP, but I do feel it's important for me to be protected since that's a machine that's on the road. Is there an upgrade teswt for Win7 still around, and is a copy still available? I really don't want to spring for a new laptop.

ironwalker
World Renowned
MVM
join:2001-08-31
Keansburg, NJ

ironwalker to antdude

MVM

to antdude
For those with older hardware, you can turn off all that aero crap and a bunch o' services that are not needed and make 7 and even 8 look and act like xp. It takes some reading, tweaking and some time is all. Attention to detail and lots of reading will do wonders. There are plenty of how to's out there. I have had 4 boxes turned into "xpSimilar" boxes from windows 7 and 8 with no problems.
Don't let the comments like... wheres the taskbar or look at the desktop desklets like a phone has...scare you. You can go to basic explorer looks and feel and turn off all the folder options you dont use/need.

I have read about all the hackers/crackers hording 0day exploits till' april 2014 so they can charge astronomical prices for them when microsoft stops updates for xp. I am positive there will be plenty of exploits even afterwards that will go for high bucks just like the 98se days.

My advice, upgrade!
I have had windows 7 working on older hardware with 1g ram with everything aero off and what not, no problems.
For me, i will stick with my linux box....there is nothing I cant do with linux that I did with xp.
Rip dvds encoding video and audio. I can go on. Oh and I dont even have wine installed.
My phones,cameras,printers/fax all work just fine out of the box...wireless too.