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aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

5 recommendations

MS may be bringing back the "Start menu" in 8.2

»news.yahoo.com/microsoft-may-fin···052.html

quote:
The most important change, as Thurrott hears it, is that Microsoft will finally be bringing back the full Start menu to the Windows 8.2 desktop mode.
I guess after one major failure (8.0) and one so-so result (8.1) they finally realize that it is better to give the users what they want.
--
.sig

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Too little too late if they restore the start menu now, they had their chance to actually listen to the beta testers, preview release users, and news media outlets before releasing Win 8.0.

8.2 won't be enough, they're going to have to ditch 8.x, and will have to go 9.0 to not associate themselves with the failure that is 8.x. Just like they released Win 7 to get rid of the stigma that was Vista, but in reality Win 7 was mostly Vista SP2.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



gzt7d8
Aliens live amongst us
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Swartz Creek, MI
reply to aurgathor

MS says they are listening to the customer on their desires....hmmm, must have been a very small pool of people and ones that never used a Windows product.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

It was stated that their goal was a unified interface across multiple devices, and that's what they did ignoring the problems with metro, like metro didn't even work on more than one monitor at a time, yet they made it the desktop gui. They royally screwed up using a pos gui made for a tablet on desktops that didn't even support proper multitasking. They were competing with ipads, but the desktop is far from an ipad. It's clear they ignored the feedback, and released metro before it was fully ready to be even remotely close to replace the gui for desktops. They just slapped the gui for the arm tablets on the desktop to push it out before the holidays.

Their focus group must have been some tweens playing on arm windows tablets, and they just ignored everyone else.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2
reply to aurgathor

So they're going to bring back the Windows 7 start menu to windows 8, in return it will make it function like Windows 7 again, but you just upgraded from 7 to 8? Ok, I'm confused. What is the point of Windows 8 again? It seems to me Microsoft fucked up big time. They took a good OS and made it worse appearance wise.



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:10

2 recommendations

reply to aurgathor

Did they fire the idiot who butchered the Start menu?


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to DarkSithPro

It's not called a "fucked up big time". It's called a new marketing strategy...

You can see that right after WXP was introduced to the market. They start shuffle the features -- remove some for a while, then return them back, while removing others... The process could be continued indefinitely, bringing new money without any innovation whatsoever. It's well known approach in marketing circles.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to aurgathor

So all through windows 8 beta users said "Keep the start menu", then 8 came out and we said "bring back the start menu" then 8.1's insult was released and we said "very funny, but we want the start menu"... and now they finally realize their mistake?

Poor MS... they could have kept old users happy AND introduced the new touch interface at the same time, instead they went this route... so sad.

quote:
Thurrott also says that the new version of Windows will allow for Metro apps to run as floating windows on the desktop screen, something that users can only do right now if they’ve installed third-party applications such as ModernMix.

So are they gonna buy stardock, or can they handle the coding on this? :P


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to aurgathor

So, what, none of you are going to upgrade to 8.2 and finally get what you want just to show Microsoft?

You guys are funny!
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

The joke is on them with the low 8.x adoption, and lack of sales of their tablets. Even Win 7 is still outpacing adoption over Win 8, and they recently rescinded the end sale date of Win 7.

Lets call this Windows Zune Edition, I hope you get the reference.



DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2
reply to darcilicious

said by darcilicious:

So, what, none of you are going to upgrade to 8.2 and finally get what you want just to show Microsoft?

You guys are funny!

Let me ask you a question? What does an Operating System mean to you? Well until you respond I'll tell you what it means to me and hopefully what it means to most. An OS is nothing more than a platform to run your programs and hardware peripherals securely. That's it, end of story! A platform that makes it as easy as possible with minimal tinkering to get it all to run. So tell me, what commercial software, or software combined with hardware products that are comercially available in ANY store such a Fry's, BestBuy, or online stores such as Amazon and Newegg that will only run on Windows 8? Can you name EVEN one that is available to the general public? Can you name any free software that will ONLY run on 8?


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

1 recommendation

said by DarkSithPro:

Can you name any free software that will ONLY run on 8?

Actually, yes -- Flipboard will only run on Windows 8.1 and not on Windows 7.

But I have no idea what that proves.

As for the rest of your post, I must be dense because whatever point you were trying to make went whizzing by...
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Their focus group must have been some tweens playing on arm windows tablets, and they just ignored everyone else.

Angry catholic schoolgirls w some wannabe cool hip hop dance moves.
The lack of the program manager/task bar/start menu is a clusterfork implementation switching between the metro and desktop. WTF do they have to run it in FULLSCREEN WITH CAPS EVERWHERE? Because the people who made it are obnoxious.
--
Let them eat FIBER!


DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2
reply to darcilicious

said by darcilicious:

said by DarkSithPro:

Can you name any free software that will ONLY run on 8?

Actually, yes -- Flipboard will only run on Windows 8.1 and not on Windows 7.

But I have no idea what that proves.

As for the rest of your post, I must be dense because whatever point you were trying to make went whizzing by...

Wow, you found one. I'm impressed!


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

And I waited a long time for it to show up, to boot!



DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2

said by darcilicious:

And I waited a long time for it to show up, to boot!

I'm just waiting for Microsoft PR LL to show up to dissect my post and to tell us how awesome and advaned Windows 8 is.


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 recommendation

I sense a schooling from Dave in the force.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to aurgathor

So then I guess if we want the full transparency of the windows and such (aero glass) that was in Windows 7, we will have to wait for Windows 8.3?

Again, it does not have to be on by default, as that would probably not work to well on a tablet.

It all comes down to giving the end user, no matter what platform the OS is running on, a choice to enable or disable a feature.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to aurgathor

Start Menu return to as is Win 7 began with 8.1, it didn't happen. It won't happen with 8.2 either.

A Start Menu like Win 7 is incompatible with MS's unified OS vision across devices. While there may a Start Menu change in Win 8.2 to implement that vision, it won't be the same as the Win 7 version, nor should it be.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



Nhbass
Upside Down Jeep
Premium
join:2001-01-15
Nashua, NH

1 recommendation

reply to aurgathor

There's no reason the OS could not detect a straight desktop system or query for a touch panel before installation. It already scans hardware during the initial set up.



Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to Dustyn

said by Dustyn:

Did they fire the idiot who butchered the Start menu?

Nope, they transferred them to the Xbone UI division. Have you seen how hideous it is?


natedj
Elected
Premium
join:2001-06-06
Columbia, SC
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

»news.yahoo.com/microsoft-may-fin···052.html

quote:
The most important change, as Thurrott hears it, is that Microsoft will finally be bringing back the full Start menu to the Windows 8.2 desktop mode.
I guess after one major failure (8.0) and one so-so result (8.1) they finally realize that it is better to give the users what they want.

It amazes me that you can have a company who supposedly tout themselves as the brightest minds in technology and make such bass ackwards decisions with an OS. Whoever signed off on Metro for Desktop don't use a PC daily for anything constructive. It would piss me off more to know that the whole company was on board with this distorted "one size fits all approach."

If they don't offer 8.2 for free, I'll just use Classic Shell in protest of those asshats missing the boat. Its one thing to screw-up and leave out the start button in Win8, but after you were told that you screwed up, and the numbers shows it, they were still hell bent on the omitting it by giving us this crippled shortcut in Win8.1 and tried to call it a start button.

I'm relieve to hear the start button is coming back but I'm aggravated that it would take this long, but that's typical Microsoft for you, Mr Johnny-come-lately, always a day late and a dollar short. I feel like slapping the guy that signed off on this Metro crap ... with my foot.
--
Good judgement comes with experience...Experience comes after bad judgements


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to aurgathor

What is it about the 'full' Start Menu that people are missing so much?

Like I said in the other thread to start an app using the start button is 3 clicks in Windows 8 vs 4 in the Windows 7 start menu, so what is it exactly that people see in it?

Blake
Edit - Basically give me use cases where the old start button was better so we have something to discuss. Certainly one person has given me one example already.



Ryan
Premium
join:2001-03-03
Braintree, MA
reply to aurgathor

Am I the only one who finds the tacky puke colors an eye sore and more of a problem then metro? Or the fact that if you change your start bar color to a black you can no longer see the text in the title bars? Aero to me looked significantly better...



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

What is it about the 'full' Start Menu that people are missing so much?

Like I said in the other thread to start an app using the start button is 3 clicks in Windows 8 vs 4 in the Windows 7 start menu, so what is it exactly that people see in it?

Blake
Edit - Basically give me use cases where the old start button was better so we have something to discuss. Certainly one person has given me one example already.

The top-level subfolders scheme I've used since Win 95 doesn't work with Metro and allows me better organization than Metro can possibly provide.

Granted, this scheme also doesn't work in 7, when Microsoft removed the Classic start menu.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

1 recommendation

reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

What is it about the 'full' Start Menu that people are missing so much?

Like I said in the other thread to start an app using the start button is 3 clicks in Windows 8 vs 4 in the Windows 7 start menu, so what is it exactly that people see in it?

Blake
Edit - Basically give me use cases where the old start button was better so we have something to discuss. Certainly one person has given me one example already.

No offense, but I really don't feel compelled to give you use cases to prove why I need a full start menu; I'm a customer, I want it and I have my reasons. Its my business why I want it.
--
Ron Paul 2012 »www.ronpaul2012.com
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. (((XM)))


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by BillRoland:

No offense, but I really don't feel compelled to give you use cases to prove why I need a full start menu; I'm a customer, I want it and I have my reasons. Its my business why I want it.

No offense taken, but don't be surprised if you don't get what you want. You are correct it might be your business why you want it, but unless the designers know what your reasons are, they are likely to skip over your requirements.

Blake
NOTE I don't work for Microsoft, I'm just asking for use cases so we actually have something concrete to discuss in terms of design.
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to sivran

Basically there are been 3 versions of the Start Menu, the one you are talking about with sub folders died with XP as it was the second version of the start menu, so its been more then awhile since you used that.

The challenge of a start menu is organization of apps, and this has been a growing problem as the number of apps people have installed on their systems has grown, because you have much larger storage and there are just more apps then what you had with say Windows 95.

So what would happen if the groups on the metro page were collapsible, meaning you just saw the group name and an icon (like a folder) and if you clicked on it, then it would appear as does now? Groups could be defaulted to collapsed or opened as a setting for the group.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

I might actually use a start screen designed like that -- reminds me of the "tabs" in ObjectDock.




But mostly, I just like to type it in and get to it...
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Dustyn

said by Dustyn:

Did they fire the idiot who butchered the Start menu?

I don't know who butchered the Start menu, but Sinofsky is no longer with MS. Whether it was an ultimatum: "resign or to be fired" or it was truly a mutual decision to leave -- that we may never know.
--
.sig