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BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

2 edits

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

[CATV] Request for New Cisco SDV Tuning Adapter Firmware

Cisco and TiVo have identified a bug in the currently deployed Cisco SDV Tuning Adapter Firmware, where tuning requests fail randomly and the failure rate increases the longer the TA has not been rebooted. Issue most notably presents itself in 4 and 6 tuner TiVos.

What is the best way to get Cox to act on this request?

The Current Cisco TA Firmware is:
FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1601

The Newly Released Firmware is:
FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1901

Anyone else having SDV tuning failures, Please also post your request at the Cox Support Forums:
»forums.cox.com/forum_hom ··· 280.aspx

CoxVegas
join:2011-07-25
Las Vegas, NV

CoxVegas

Member

I'm asking around about this, and will let you know. Won't probably hear back until next week at this point though.
brad152
join:2006-07-27
Chicago, IL

brad152 to BryanInPHX

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Is this why my TiVo was practically unusable at times? All of the channels i watched were on SDV and i had this issue severely.

I ended up canceling Cox over it and going to Dish, but if this gets resolved i may try Cox again when my contract is up in march, as i hate cable but also hate contracts even more!

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

2 edits

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

For me,

2 Tuner TiVo Premieres were not really affected by this as long as I rebooted the Tuning Adapter every 3 weeks, If it went much over a month, I would loose all channels quite often.

4 Tuner Premiere Elite/XL4, basically the same behavior as the 2 Tuner.

6 Tuner TiVo Roamio Pro, the Tuning Adapter has to be rebooted every few days, other wise the 5th and 6th SDV Session will fail randomly, several times a day, Out of 30 SDV recordings per day it will fail to tune/record 3-4, so about a 10-15% recording failure rate.

Signals are all good and have been tested, TA's have been replaced multiple times, my FDC is -4 to -5dBmV w/ SNR 29-31dB, so it could be better, but is within specs.
RDC is good w/ Power 37-39dBmV and SNR 37-39dB
BryanInPHX

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said by CoxVegas:

I'm asking around about this, and will let you know. Won't probably hear back until next week at this point though.

Thank You, I appreciate your offer to investigate this. Supposedly Cisco has notified all providers of the issue and update, this is according to an engineer with Bright House Networks.
BryanInPHX

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to CoxVegas
Early reports from BrightHouse customers say the new Cisco TA firmware is a sucess
»www.tivocommunity.com/ti ··· t9933831

CoxVegas
join:2011-07-25
Las Vegas, NV

CoxVegas to BryanInPHX

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to BryanInPHX
said by BryanInPHX:

What is the best way to get Cox to act on this request?

Got an answer back for you.

The short version is that Cox, at present, isn't intending on deploying the 1901 code - we're waiting for the next revision of code that solves a couple other problems as well.

The 1901 RF fix only helps in weak RF situations, and the problem is usually seen when people are using the SDV box as a pass-through. The recommended fix is to recable with a 2 way splitter before the SDV box, with one leg feeding the SDV box and the other feeding the Tivo.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

said by CoxVegas:

The 1901 RF fix only helps in weak RF situations, and the problem is usually seen when people are using the SDV box as a pass-through. The recommended fix is to recable with a 2 way splitter before the SDV box, with one leg feeding the SDV box and the other feeding the Tivo.

Using a splitter makes no sense, since it seems the Cisco TA has an internal RF amp, of about 3db and using a splitter would reduce your signal by 3.5db

CoxVegas
join:2011-07-25
Las Vegas, NV

CoxVegas

Member

said by BryanInPHX:

said by CoxVegas:

The 1901 RF fix only helps in weak RF situations, and the problem is usually seen when people are using the SDV box as a pass-through. The recommended fix is to recable with a 2 way splitter before the SDV box, with one leg feeding the SDV box and the other feeding the Tivo.

Using a splitter makes no sense, since it seems the Cisco TA has an internal RF amp, of about 3db and using a splitter would reduce your signal by 3.5db

In this case, I'm parroting what I was told.

I'm sensing a run to my laboratory in the near future on a quest of discovery!

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

said by CoxVegas:

In this case, I'm parroting what I was told.

I'm sensing a run to my laboratory in the near future on a quest of discovery!

Post your "official" test results to confirm (or deny) my suspicion of the internal amp.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

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to BryanInPHX
said by BryanInPHX:

Using a splitter makes no sense, since it seems the Cisco TA has an internal RF amp, of about 3db and using a splitter would reduce your signal by 3.5db

As I understand it...

An amp would amplify the input signal (noise and all) and also introduce some noise of its own, so while the overall power level of the output would be higher, your already marginal SNR would be even worse.

A splitter would reduce the power level by 3.5db, but have no negative effect on SNR.

So in the case of acceptable power levels but low SNR (such as you have) you might be better off with a splitter than using the amp in the TA.
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

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I'm having this problem too on my 4-tuner TiVo. Had to reboot things more often than I would like in the next month. I won't be using a splitter.

The whole use-a-splitter vs. don't-use-a-splitter question is just voodoo, I've heard both versions often enough from Cox employees that there's really no credibility one way or another about that particular advice.
tim92078

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Regesiter?!
I'll post on their forum as soon as I can uh, "regesiter" as their page suggests. At least Cox is consistently mediocre.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

if you already have Cox for internet the forum use the email user name and password no need to re register.

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

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I wouldn't call that VooDoo, I would say the solution probably depends on the problem. You can have strong signal, but low SNR, and you can have good SNR and low signal. Using a splitter would help with first issue (low SNR) and going through the amp would help the second issue (low power).

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to incorporate a SDV adapter into a PVR? Are they proprietary to each ISP?

Anonguy
@cox.net

Anonguy

Anon

said by Hard Harry7:

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to incorporate a SDV adapter into a PVR? Are they proprietary to each ISP?

The problem is there are two different standards.

Cicso/SA and Motorola.

Just like the cable boxes cannot be used on each other systems TA's a are the same.

SO if you buy a PVR with built in TA it will work where you buy it but possibly not work if you move. Not a good situation for a third party vendor.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

said by BryanInPHX:

For me,
6 Tuner TiVo Roamio Pro, the Tuning Adapter has to be rebooted every few days, other wise the 5th and 6th SDV Session will fail randomly, several times a day, Out of 30 SDV recordings per day it will fail to tune/record 3-4, so about a 10-15% recording failure rate.

The Cisco TA issues of missed recordings on the TiVo Roamio Plus/Pro 6 Tuner seems to have been fixed with the latest TiVo SW Update of 20.3.8

TiVo finally added a modification that should have been implemented long ago:
- "now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond"

I have not had a single failed recording since the TiVo SW Update. I still recommend rebooting the TiVo and the TA every 2-3 weeks.
signcarver
join:2005-03-20
Phoenix, AZ

signcarver

Member

One thing that concerns me is that if they upgrade to the 1901 firmware does that mean they also try to update our cablecard firmware as I believe the last two updates have seen this. There is a problem on comcast (and I also heard it is affecting TWC but not as much since they have most channels copy once) with the 1.5.3_F.p.1901 cablecard firmware that locals and other channels are beginning to see CGMS enforcement on what should be set as copy freely as they are getting CCI of none rather than 0... but it may be an implementation problem on their end such as having the headend configured for their older 1.5.2_F.p.2401 (notice 1.5.2 rather than 1.5.3) rather than an actual firmware problem if properly configured... my understanding they updated the cablecard firmware to allow better support for 6 tuners on tivo which does work but that for some reason they are not getting copy freely that is supposedly what engineering has determined what cci is set at and does still work properly on 1.5.2_F.p.2401 for those that have been able to get them to revert the firmware back on their cards.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

^^^^^
The Cisco CableCARD firmware in question is actually PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101

PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601 is the latest firmware Cox has deployed,

In fact Cox is using this same firmware on their own Contour 6 Tuner Cisco DVR, although their DVR has a PKM908 installed from the factory.
Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Ashburn, VA

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said by BryanInPHX:

said by CoxVegas:

The 1901 RF fix only helps in weak RF situations, and the problem is usually seen when people are using the SDV box as a pass-through. The recommended fix is to recable with a 2 way splitter before the SDV box, with one leg feeding the SDV box and the other feeding the Tivo.

Using a splitter makes no sense, since it seems the Cisco TA has an internal RF amp, of about 3db and using a splitter would reduce your signal by 3.5db

I'm using a TA with very weak RF signals. After a drop amp, the high end RF signal is barely within spec. In this case, the internal amp of the TA proves to be worthless. It introduces way more noise that it should. I ended up with a 2-way splitter than proves much more stable and useful (as in I can tune all my channels) than pass-through (as in I can't tune channels at all that locate on top end of the spectrum).

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

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Are there any updates to report on new Cisco SDV Tuning Adapter Firmware?
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

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They can use either motorola /Cisco boxes as long as they use the right model of cable card. Since the only use Cisco for the whole home dvr.

Anonguy
@cox.net

Anonguy

Anon

said by ajwees41:

They can use either motorola /Cisco boxes as long as they use the right model of cable card. Since the only use Cisco for the whole home dvr.

Not exactly. It depends what software the boxes are running.

Legacy cable boxes are system/headend specific. Cisco/SA can only be used on a Cisco headend and vice versa for Motorola. Tuning adapters are legacy software boxes so they are headend specific.

They whole home use Tru2way and therefore can be used anywhere because the servers for most of the Tru2way stuff is in Atlanta.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit

BryanInPHX to CoxVegas

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said by CoxVegas:

said by BryanInPHX:

said by CoxVegas:

The 1901 RF fix only helps in weak RF situations, and the problem is usually seen when people are using the SDV box as a pass-through. The recommended fix is to recable with a 2 way splitter before the SDV box, with one leg feeding the SDV box and the other feeding the Tivo.

Using a splitter makes no sense, since it seems the Cisco TA has an internal RF amp, of about 3db and using a splitter would reduce your signal by 3.5db

In this case, I'm parroting what I was told.

I'm sensing a run to my laboratory in the near future on a quest of discovery!

Is there any update on this?

The Cisco CableCards just received a firmware update for improved 6 tuner support.
»[CATV] Cisco CableCARD Firmware Update

It is time for F.1901 or later firmware.
BryanInPHX

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

Or better yet just use an IP back-channel for SDV requests.

TiVo now supports ‘Embedded’ Switched Digital Video Tech
As part of its big summer software release, TiVo has developed an “embedded” way of supporting cable switched digital video (SDV) without having to rely on a separate Tuning Adapter.
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· h/376007
gabmasterjcc
join:2003-09-08
Fairfax, VA

gabmasterjcc

Member

said by BryanInPHX:

TiVo now supports ‘Embedded’ Switched Digital Video Tech

This requires cable company support (hardware, etc.) and is only expected to be implemented at a few cable companies (probably those that use Tivos directly).
speed_phreak
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join:2006-03-31
Texas

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Since this thread has been re-opened....

Any update on when Cox will be updating the Cisco TA firmware in southern California?
gabmasterjcc
join:2003-09-08
Fairfax, VA

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Any chance someone could look into this. My TA actually stops working completely. Existing updated firmware may not fix the problem, but who knows it might help fix it. See my thread: »Tuning Adapter Issue
Effectively after about 40 days, it stops responding completely w/ my 6 Tuner Tivo. The issue could be related.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

This last month has been the most unreliable month I have ever had.

I have had to reboot the TAs 3 timed in the last month. As of right now they are not working again, Most all SDV channels are not responding, and a reboot did not fix them. Perhaps it is headend maintenance at this hour, but it is getting really frustrating.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR

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Could someone from Cox give an update on this? We're closing in on a year since Cisco fixed this in firmware, but Cox still hasn't deployed it.

Bryan - did you every try it with a splitter? Did it help?