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SCOHO83
Anon
2013-Dec-15 2:20 pm
[Bakersfield] DRM and BrighthouseOk, I know DRM is the right of any cable broadcaster (and the content provider). But I have two questions for anyone who can answer them. First, let me post that I own 5 TiVo's and do not have problems with these. I am after convenience. I just came from Houston where I had TWC and another small cable company, and this worked there so I know it is not a content provider DRM issue. So, with that in mind;
1. I like the ability to put a TV outside and use a small device to stream to that TV. I used a laptop in Houston to do this and just had all my content saved to a home network server. However, Brighthouse DRM's HD programming (other than local) for some reason (not true in Houston (i.e. SyFyHD, AMCHD, etc, so I know it is not content provider). Fine, its their right. So I am looking at TIVO's new Roamio. Will DRM prevent this from working with the HD programming?
2. I know BH has a ipad app that works great, but any idea if it will be airplay enabled in the near future (same solution but with AppleTV).
3. Why won't BH make a "service" option that for a few more $'s a month I can use TIVO"s full capability (TivoToGo, etc) for HD content? I like TIVO's interface a ton. We tried BH DVR and went back to our "closet" TIVO's.. they just have a better UI... period!
Scott |
actions · 2013-Dec-15 2:20 pm · (locked) |
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Ok so I have been a Tivo user for 3+ years now and I can tell you that I will never go back to the standard cable box. I just recently bought a Roamio, upgrade, so I can say this from experience:
Question 1: Yes, you can play all HD content from a Roamio all you need is a Cable Card and Tuning Adapter.
Question 2: This one is tricky, I will leave this to Gary.
Question 3: I am not sure what you mean by this as all the Tivo features work as long as you have a Cable Card.
I wanted to point out that if you plug your Tivo in and don't use a cable card you will only be able to pick up standard unencrypted channels which I think is where your issue comes from. |
actions · 2013-Dec-15 8:36 pm · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
to SCOHO83
Answer to Q2
There are several things coming to BHTV in mid 2014 however that is not one of them that I know of for now. |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 12:48 am · (locked) |
mixdup join:2003-06-28 Alpharetta, GA |
to SCOHO83
1. You would need a TiVo capable of supporting a Mini in your network. Either a 4 tuner Premiere or any Roamio model. Even with BHN's draconian use of the CCI byte, you can *stream* (not copy) with TiVo's latest hardware (not compatible with the old Series 3 or TiVo HD models, ONLY the Premieres or Roamios) 2. Who knows, I would seriously doubt it 3. BHN isn't misusing the CCI byte because they are trying to get you to buy their DVR or extract money. Nobody really knows why (BHNTechXpert will allude to "agreements with content providers" but that's bogus since no other major MSO except TWC uses CCI in the same way) but I suspect it's due to their heritage as former TWC systems (and still operating under programming agreements and "sharing" engineering resources), and I suspect the TWC rules come from the fact that when TWC was owned by Time Warner, Inc they owned major content and were major proponents of DRM. It's about a misguided attempt to prevent piracy (which it doesn't).
The good news is if you upgrade at least one of your TiVos to a current model, you can use most of the features (note that you won't be able to use the out of home streaming, ever--they'll only work on your local network) |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 12:56 am · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
said by mixdup:1. 3. BHN isn't misusing the CCI byte because they are trying to get you to buy their DVR or extract money. Nobody really knows why (BHNTechXpert will allude to "agreements with content providers" but that's bogus since no other major MSO except TWC uses CCI in the same way) but I suspect it's due to their heritage as former TWC systems (and still operating under programming agreements and "sharing" engineering resources), and I suspect the TWC rules come from the fact that when TWC was owned by Time Warner, Inc they owned major content and were major proponents of DRM. It's about a misguided attempt to prevent piracy (which it doesn't).
The good news is if you upgrade at least one of your TiVos to a current model, you can use most of the features (note that you won't be able to use the out of home streaming, ever--they'll only work on your local network) And once again you would be wrong..... |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 8:36 am · (locked) |
mixdup join:2003-06-28 Alpharetta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2013-Dec-16 8:59 am
Would you like to clear up the record? Oh, no, of course not. Just "nope, you're wrong" with nothing to back it up. And the other part you quoted was right. Out of home streaming on TiVo only works on things that are copy freely CCI. |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 8:59 am · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL 1 edit |
said by mixdup:Would you like to clear up the record? Oh, no, of course not. Just "nope, you're wrong" with nothing to back it up. And the other part you quoted was right. Out of home streaming on TiVo only works on things that are copy freely CCI. Give it up Mixdup....when I need you to speak for me I will let you know. Until then kindly refrain from the behavior. |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 9:08 am · (locked) |
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to SCOHO83
said by SCOHO83 :Ok, I know DRM is the right of any cable broadcaster (and the content provider). But I have two questions for anyone who can answer them. First, let me post that I own 5 TiVo's and do not have problems with these. I am after convenience. I just came from Houston where I had TWC and another small cable company, and this worked there so I know it is not a content provider DRM issue. So, with that in mind;
1. I like the ability to put a TV outside and use a small device to stream to that TV. I used a laptop in Houston to do this and just had all my content saved to a home network server. However, Brighthouse DRM's HD programming (other than local) for some reason (not true in Houston (i.e. SyFyHD, AMCHD, etc, so I know it is not content provider). Fine, its their right. So I am looking at TIVO's new Roamio. Will DRM prevent this from working with the HD programming? Concur with ShadowFoxBiH and mixdup on this answer. You would need a small TiVo Mini connected via MoCA or Ethernet to stream all DVR'ed content or Live TV from a base Roamio or 4-tuner Premiere box. I would recommend that you have BHN provide you with a Port-of-Entry filter for the MoCA. Also note that you want to connect the BHN-supplied Tuning Adapter with a 2-way splitter versus the way the BHN technician might want to connect it to your Roamio or Premiere. The internal pass-through of the Cisco TA's tends to attenuate the MoCA signal to the point where it won't work hence the need for the splitter. said by SCOHO83 :2. I know BH has a ipad app that works great, but any idea if it will be airplay enabled in the near future (same solution but with AppleTV). Agree that the BHN iPad app works great for streaming live TV. As you probably know the TiVo iPad app also works great and allows you to stream recorded content in addition to live TV. I do find that the BHN app is a bit more responsive and reliable for streaming live TV. said by SCOHO83 :3. Why won't BH make a "service" option that for a few more $'s a month I can use TIVO"s full capability (TivoToGo, etc) for HD content? I like TIVO's interface a ton. We tried BH DVR and went back to our "closet" TIVO's.. they just have a better UI... period! You may recall seeing recent news about the fight TWC was having with CBS. The news reports indicated that a lot of the dispute was related to TV Everywhere rights. My guess, and a complete guess, is that TWC may not have permission to enable the CCI-bit to allow copy-freely on non-broadcast channels. While TWC and BHN are two separate companies, they do share in negotiations related to program content. Therefore, BHN may also be required to lock-down the non-broadcast channels. Once again, pure speculation on my part since the actual agreements are confidential. FWIW, I would change this perspective once I see BHN allowing TV Everywhere streaming out-of-home on one of their devices. So the good news is that OOH works for the broadcast networks and streaming works on the home network for all channels including premium channels. ~Sam |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 2:06 pm · (locked) |
mixdup join:2003-06-28 Alpharetta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2013-Dec-16 2:11 pm
said by sbiller1: TWC may not have permission to enable the CCI-bit to allow copy-freely on non-broadcast channels. If this is the case, they need to fire their VP for Programming Acquisition. No other major cable provider flags every single channel like TWC/BHN. Hell, Verizon didn't even flag HBO/Cinemax/Showtime until recently and probably because some Time Warner (Inc, not Cable) employee figured it out and complained. The problem is that CableLabs requires TiVo block OOH streaming if CCI is set to copy once or copy never. Even if the cable company were OK with OOH streaming and had TV Everywhere rights (which they do, for some channels, already) TiVo's implementation will be forever broken because the CCI byte is set to prevent recording and pirating, not OOH streaming. Which is ironic, because pirating of cable TV shows still happens without abandon and the customers who want to play by the rules get screwed. |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 2:11 pm · (locked) |
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From » www.homemediamagazine.co ··· me-31993"Time Warner Cable has been slow to embrace TV Everywhere as it seeks greater retransmissions rights from content holders going forward. The cable operator and CBS endured a protracted renewal process over pay-TV rights during the summer %u2014 due in large part to streaming rights." It appears that TWC and I assume BHN are inking deals going forward that include TVE rights so this could change. IMHO, it would be better if TiVo inked a direct deal with TWC and BHN to work together on providing access to VOD as well similar to TiVo's deal with Comcast and Cox. |
actions · 2013-Dec-16 3:42 pm · (locked) |
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scoho83
Anon
2013-Dec-17 1:55 am
I will hold my breath on BHN 2014.
On Item 3. Its an old question with raw nerves I can tell. BHN owns the distribution rights for the content, and I know its their right to set the copyright protection. Not arguing that. I just wish BHN would understand why people want it. I have two premiere's. My issue is with space, which is why I own a NAS. But here on Brighthouse (as opposed to TWC (Houston) and Entouch), BHN blocks HD recording using TiVo desktop with the Copy Protection, which makes my NAS a bit useless. I don't know what reason they have to do it, but I can promise you as I worked for TWC in Houston, its not a content provider requirement.
I just wish BHN would understand, I LIKE THE TIVO INTERFACE! That plain and simple. I would pay them for it if they offered it (on a reliable DVR, not the cisco which failed trial on Cox I think it was). And I would like to store allot of OLD movies which they won't store! I would PAY for this service.. really!
Oh, well. Guess its an old question. And I don't want to open old wounds (which appears to be what I have done). |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 1:55 am · (locked) |
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scoho83 |
scoho83
Anon
2013-Dec-17 1:59 am
Oh, and for those of you who say use Moca, I guess that could work, but its another frickin' box I have to move around. The beauty of NAS or Airplay is I just stream to the TV.
But.. oh well. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 1:59 am · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
to scoho83
said by scoho83 :I will hold my breath on BHN 2014.
On Item 3. Its an old question with raw nerves I can tell. BHN owns the distribution rights for the content, and I know its their right to set the copyright protection. Not arguing that. I just wish BHN would understand why people want it. I have two premiere's. My issue is with space, which is why I own a NAS. But here on Brighthouse (as opposed to TWC (Houston) and Entouch), BHN blocks HD recording using TiVo desktop with the Copy Protection, which makes my NAS a bit useless. I don't know what reason they have to do it, but I can promise you as I worked for TWC in Houston, its not a content provider requirement.
I just wish BHN would understand, I LIKE THE TIVO INTERFACE! That plain and simple. I would pay them for it if they offered it (on a reliable DVR, not the cisco which failed trial on Cox I think it was). And I would like to store allot of OLD movies which they won't store! I would PAY for this service.. really!
Oh, well. Guess its an old question. And I don't want to open old wounds (which appears to be what I have done). We totally understand why you want to do what you want to do. A good chunk of what I do is examine the ways you want to use the products we offer and work through those problems with our respective teams. Are we going to be able to do everything you guys ask for? No....but trust me we are listening. I also totally get that you like the Tivo interface....but not everybody does and we build for the masses not the few. We also have to be mindful of expense and intellectual rights (you those pesky things called patents) that make certain interfaces the way they are... As for old movies you do realize we have thousands and thousands of ondemand content available for free if you have our box....so to some extent you are shorting yourself if you have a 3rd party box because you aren't getting them. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 8:17 am · (locked) |
bighorn1 Premium Member join:2004-06-19 California |
bighorn1
Premium Member
2013-Dec-17 5:59 pm
said by BHNtechXpert:but not everybody does and we build for the masses not the few You surely mean TWC does, right? Because I haven't yet seen anything of importance that would be uniquely BHN except branding. Same TV guide, same TV app (with some features removed) and BHN logo slammed on. said by BHNtechXpert:As for old movies you do realize we have thousands and thousands of ondemand content available for free if you have our box....so to some extent you are shorting yourself if you have a 3rd party box because you aren't getting them. 1.) It's not for free 2.) Thousands? not in HD... 3.) 3rd party box usually works while BHN box not so much. A lot of times you just get "Loading...", "accessing..." or "Not available at this time, try again later...", etc. Try something else like search whilst watching on demand and you get kicked out... The only reason why most don't have Tivo is because of extra $$. BHN (err TWC) could take a lesson or two on how to design an interface which actually makes some sense... |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 5:59 pm · (locked) |
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I switched to TIVO because the BH UI/Programming guide is poorly developed and inferior to the TIVO UI/Programming guide. After a year cussing at it and with no hint that they would roll out something decent soon I decided not to wait and went to TIVO. I had no problem with the Cisco DVR though. The unit I had worked very well. Only a hard restart every now and then when it started to get slow responding. If BH ever hires a good developer and creates a great UI/Programming guide, I will go back to the Cisco DVR in a heartbeat. In the meantime I will stay with TIVO so I can enjoy the superior UI/guide. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 6:55 pm · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL 1 edit |
to bighorn1
said by bighorn1:said by BHNtechXpert:but not everybody does and we build for the masses not the few You surely mean TWC does, right? Because I haven't yet seen anything of importance that would be uniquely BHN except branding. Same TV guide, same TV app (with some features removed) and BHN logo slammed on. said by BHNtechXpert:As for old movies you do realize we have thousands and thousands of ondemand content available for free if you have our box....so to some extent you are shorting yourself if you have a 3rd party box because you aren't getting them. 1.) It's not for free 2.) Thousands? not in HD... 3.) 3rd party box usually works while BHN box not so much. A lot of times you just get "Loading...", "accessing..." or "Not available at this time, try again later...", etc. Try something else like search whilst watching on demand and you get kicked out... The only reason why most don't have Tivo is because of extra $$. BHN (err TWC) could take a lesson or two on how to design an interface which actually makes some sense... Actually a big chunk of it is free you would be mistaken there... the rest I'm not gonna get into a big discussion with you right now about this right now as I'm kinda swamped with a minor disaster of my own...hit me up later if you must. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 7:52 pm · (locked) |
BHNtechXpert |
to wbrightfl
said by wbrightfl:I switched to TIVO because the BH UI/Programming guide is poorly developed and inferior to the TIVO UI/Programming guide. After a year cussing at it and with no hint that they would roll out something decent soon I decided not to wait and went to TIVO. I had no problem with the Cisco DVR though. The unit I had worked very well. Only a hard restart every now and then when it started to get slow responding. If BH ever hires a good developer and creates a great UI/Programming guide, I will go back to the Cisco DVR in a heartbeat. In the meantime I will stay with TIVO so I can enjoy the superior UI/guide. And personally having both in front of me I find the tivo experience to be annoying as hell and I am the tech guy..has nothing to do with my job it has everything to do with personal preferences....some people like Tivo and some people like others....to each their own. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 7:53 pm · (locked) |
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Oh yeah I agree with that Gary, to each his own. Everyone has their own preferences thats for sure. If we had the option to change the color scheme and was given a full-screen option for the guide it would help please a lot of us. Maybe they will do this some day. |
actions · 2013-Dec-17 8:08 pm · (locked) |
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to BHNtechXpert
Yes sir. Fully aware of all you just said. Especially the patents as TIVO recently showed, they will defend theirs. And as I said, all y'all do is within your rights. You can understand where some of us are frustrated though. And yes, I am aware of the "need your box" issue. (Switched digital is possible with a TIVO box y'a know. FIOS has done that in FL, so y'all could allow it IF IT MAKES BUSINESS SENSE FOR YOU. Again, its up to y'all, I would just really like my functionality that I had in Houston . |
actions · 2013-Dec-21 3:46 pm · (locked) |
scoho83 |
scoho83 to wbrightfl
Anon
2013-Dec-21 3:51 pm
to wbrightfl
That is true. it was an irritant. I was renting in Bako before I moved here, and I had a BHN DVR. Can't remember all the things that bothered me, but the biggest bother was the remote.. I had to read to know when to push A or B or C or D. Tivo, record, hit record, Play a show, hit select. Etc, etc. But as Gary said, they can't do all that TIVO does, because TIVO would sue them... and win (as recently shown). |
actions · 2013-Dec-21 3:51 pm · (locked) |
scoho83 |
to BHNtechXpert
Oh, and btw Gary. Merry Christmas. I was a telecom Marketing guy, so know your issues. You're brave to be on the forum. I also learned, if I ask, sometimes, things happen |
actions · 2013-Dec-21 3:53 pm · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
said by scoho83 :Oh, and btw Gary. Merry Christmas. I was a telecom Marketing guy, so know your issues. You're brave to be on the forum.
I also learned, if I ask, sometimes, things happen Merry Christmas to you too my friend. And yes it's a tough position to be in. The issues are complex and many tend to educate themselves in 150 characters or less snippets which makes it virtually impossible to explain anything to them... Add to that a plethora of deliberately crafted viewpoints from "talking heads" on the web with their own agendas (which of course they will never admit to) makes it very difficult to explain anything to anyone. The DVR issue is complex... Tivo has managed to lock up many of the functionality areas that people like which means you either buy or rent the technology from Tivo or you design your own and reinvent the wheel...a very difficult task... I always however encourage you to ask because I take every bit of what you guys say back present things "bigger picture" for those who need to know. Will I win your battle for you every time nope...will I take everything and present it...nope (some things just aren't practical). But those great ideas or even good ideas that would benefit many...you bet man.... |
actions · 2013-Dec-22 11:30 am · (locked) |
mixdup join:2003-06-28 Alpharetta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2013-Dec-22 11:47 am
And of course NONE of that actually has anything to do with why BHN and TWC set every single channel to copy once. |
actions · 2013-Dec-22 11:47 am · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
said by mixdup:And of course NONE of that actually has anything to do with why BHN and TWC set every single channel to copy once. Give it up Mixdup... you aren't a BHN customer so go back to the Charter forums where you belong. |
actions · 2013-Dec-22 11:50 am · (locked) |
mixdup join:2003-06-28 Alpharetta, GA |
mixdup
Member
2013-Dec-22 11:54 am
I actually am a Bright House Business customer at work, so should the requirement ever come into effect that you must be a customer of a particular provider to comment in their forums (which I don't think such a rule exists at this time) I think I'll stick around.
I tell you what. You give us a real, non spin answer on why you guys use the CCI byte in the way you do, and I'll never post here again. |
actions · 2013-Dec-22 11:54 am · (locked) |
BHNtechXpertThe One & Only Premium Member join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL |
said by mixdup:I actually am a Bright House Business customer at work, so should the requirement ever come into effect that you must be a customer of a particular provider to comment in their forums (which I don't think such a rule exists at this time) I think I'll stick around.
I tell you what. You give us a real, non spin answer on why you guys use the CCI byte in the way you do, and I'll never post here again. Actually YOU aren't. That fact has been made perfectly clear already. And you are certainly able to troll around but don't expect there to be any engagement....in other words nothing to see move along. I have no intention of debating this or anything else with you because it's pointless as demonstrated in all of the other places you've tried this in. I've tried to be nice but apparently you just don't understand so here it is....you are wasting your time. |
actions · 2013-Dec-22 12:03 pm · (locked) |