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PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

PJL to webcobbler

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to webcobbler

Re: Netflix unable to stream HD in Northeast?

said by webcobbler:

I use Apple TV as my Netflix device. I use to get SuperHD icons all the time, after they announced it some time ago. With that, I got a 1080p picture as well. I could see a difference.

Now, even on their Original Series', all I can receive is HD. What happened? Am I missing something?

Thanks

I have no idea about your situation. I use a Sony Blu-ray player, the Windows 8 app, and an Android app streaming to Chromecast for my Netflix viewing and all receive the SuperHD streams.

When you look at a movie/TV show in the browse screen of the apps it shows the highest quality stream available using that device. If you're not seeing "SuperHD" in the content description page then your device won't display it -- it isn't offered to you while you are using that device. I see SuperHD on the devices I indicated above for content (like House of Cards) but it does not show when simply browsing the content for view on the Android device (versus using it to send content to Chromecast). Maybe something changed with the Apple TV app.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

I just did a bit of researching and went to the Netflix site. Apparently (at least for AppleTV 3rd gen), Netflix no longer has the "SuperHD" logo, because it was confusing people who thought it was 4k.

The Netflix support said "Although some Super HD eligible devices do not currently display the Super HD logo, we continue to provide Super HD video quality for these devices."

So now, even though it only says "HD", they will send you the 1080p stream. Go figure.

IMO though, I refer to 1080p as HD, not Full HD. So I can see their point, somewhat.
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

PJL

Member

said by webcobbler:

I just did a bit of researching and went to the Netflix site. Apparently (at least for AppleTV 3rd gen), Netflix no longer has the "SuperHD" logo, because it was confusing people who thought it was 4k.

The Netflix support said "Although some Super HD eligible devices do not currently display the Super HD logo, we continue to provide Super HD video quality for these devices."

So now, even though it only says "HD", they will send you the 1080p stream. Go figure.

IMO though, I refer to 1080p as HD, not Full HD. So I can see their point, somewhat.

This change must pertain only to AppleTV then, because the platforms I indicated in my prior post show SuperHD logos which is 1080p. "SuperHD" is Netflix's term for 1080p quality. The term is made up by them. And wait -- they also testing "UltraHD" (4k).
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

Yes, they are testing "UHD/4K" with some of the episodes of House of Cards in Season 2. As well as the entire series of Breaking Bad later next month.

So, Super HD and UHD would be confusing for some people. who are not up to the tech terminology.
hang10
join:2002-11-03
Temecula, CA

hang10 to PJL

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to PJL
said by PJL:

How did you measure the stream?

I used the Netflix test video. I also verified the stream bandwidth on my router.
hang10

hang10 to guppy_fish

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to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

Thats standard for Netflix streams

Thats changed then. Previous it would take 5 to 10 seconds to hit a super hd stream. I struggle to get 720p. It has a tendency to bounce back and forth between 480 and 720. i have verified this on my computer and on my Tivo.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler to hang10

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to hang10
I did the test video on my Apple TV. I just search for it. It does say "HD", though.

Anyway, I did not time it, but I would def say that within 30 seconds max I was getting a 1080p picture at 5800kbps, PAR 1:1

Afrer looking this up, if I understand correctly : This bitrate is Netflix's max speed for a 1080p picture? Am I correct?
hang10
join:2002-11-03
Temecula, CA

hang10

Member

I think that's correct. Doesn't surprise me you are getting that. Apple has an agreement with Netflix to provide high quality of service. An Apple TV on fios gets the red carpet treament.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

Really?

I didn't know that those two companies had an agreement. I wonder how long that has been going on for.

But thanks hang10

I appreciate it.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt to jades

Premium Member

to jades
said by jades:

I am in NYC, did a wireshark to figure out the IP that my netflix video is using for streaming

Jades-
What IP did you pull? You'd be the 1st instance if truly you're seeing a direct connect.

I have a feeling you aren't looking at the correct one, though - as all of the Netflix IP's are pingable.

Here this morning in DE - I'm still going VZ-Alter-Telia-Netflix (in Dallas all of all places).
hang10
join:2002-11-03
Temecula, CA

hang10 to webcobbler

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to webcobbler
said by webcobbler:

I didn't know that those two companies had an agreement

Someone can correct me if im wrong on this but i believe Apple deploys the Netflix CDN in their datacenters. Its not public info that I can find but it had something to do with Apple wanting to eliminate any Netflix streaming issues to their Apple Tv. I had a Apple TV for a short period and the Netflix streams were fast and stable.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to tk421storm

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to tk421storm
Netflix supposedly uses LimeLight to deliver content on the Apple TV.
navyson
join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD

navyson to tk421storm

Member

to tk421storm
Since Netflix and Verizon seem to be having an ongoing spat in the media, could Verizon somehow sabatage the "peering agreement" deal by somehow delaying fixing the issue?

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

OITNB Perfect Last Night

Just to chime in - checked out the 1st new episode of Orange Is The New Black last night via the Xbox One - as was a lot of the country.

No buffering whatsoever, and all in HD.
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87

Member

said by SeattleMatt:

Just to chime in - checked out the 1st new episode of Orange Is The New Black last night via the Xbox One - as was a lot of the country.

No buffering whatsoever, and all in HD.

Would you mind running a trace route to 69.53.236.21?

bizasusual
@71.172.46.x

1 recommendation

bizasusual

Anon

Re: not just Netflix is affected

I'm not just having issues with Netflix, streaming too much from sites such as Youtube.com appears to also be affected.

I did some testing using tracert and the problem does not appear to be within Verizon network or within alter.net, level3.net, ect. The problem appears to be where Verizon connects to one of these. So its basically they need to upgrade that equipment or pay for more bandwidth on that point.

Sadly I don't see this getting resolved until Verizon extorts more money from everyone while holding the customers hostage...

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm to serge87

Member

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Re: OITNB Perfect Last Night

said by serge87:

said by SeattleMatt:

Just to chime in - checked out the 1st new episode of Orange Is The New Black last night via the Xbox One - as was a lot of the country.

No buffering whatsoever, and all in HD.

Would you mind running a trace route to 69.53.236.21?

I'm not sure that 69.53.236.21 is video. When I check the IP ranges for video that I am aware of, I am seeing Level 3 and NTT.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt to serge87

Premium Member

to serge87
said by serge87:

Would you mind running a trace route to 69.53.236.21?

When I did that trace - it took me across country to the West coast via xo.net
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

PJL

Member

On the West Coast here...

I think somebody is now playing games -- since the recent spat about the Netflix popup about the Verizon network being slow. Up until a couple of days ago my system was always able to negotiate to 1080HD quality, usually pretty quickly. It's now slower to do that and often stops at 480SD (or less), sometimes going to 720HD, and rarely to 1080HD (but surprisingly towards the end of a video, like during the credits). So this looks like an active throttling action rather than interconnect saturation issue. At 8:00 am Saturday I should be getting to 1080HD and staying there (like before), but that's not happening. I'm getting the same behavior as at 9:00pm on Friday. I'm seeing this new behavior

So are they playing games to prevent saturation of the interconnect so at least the chance of buffering is reduced?
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

1 edit

serge87 to norm

Member

to norm
said by norm:

said by serge87:

said by SeattleMatt:

Just to chime in - checked out the 1st new episode of Orange Is The New Black last night via the Xbox One - as was a lot of the country.

No buffering whatsoever, and all in HD.

Would you mind running a trace route to 69.53.236.21?

I'm not sure that 69.53.236.21 is video. When I check the IP ranges for video that I am aware of, I am seeing Level 3 and NTT.

I've run trace routes on a few Netflix domains I could find and they route for me in NY to the west coast via XO. However, some domains(for example, ipv4_1.lagg0.c033.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net) routed via Level3.

Would someone with FIOS be interested in starting a Netflix stream and running Wireshark to figure out the exact address/domain of the video destination server to run trace routes against?
said by SeattleMatt:

said by serge87:

Would you mind running a trace route to 69.53.236.21?

When I did that trace - it took me across country to the West coast via xo.net

Thanks for the update, I have the same result.
said by PJL:

On the West Coast here...

I think somebody is now playing games -- since the recent spat about the Netflix popup about the Verizon network being slow. Up until a couple of days ago my system was always able to negotiate to 1080HD quality, usually pretty quickly. It's now slower to do that and often stops at 480SD (or less), sometimes going to 720HD, and rarely to 1080HD (but surprisingly towards the end of a video, like during the credits). So this looks like an active throttling action rather than interconnect saturation issue. At 8:00 am Saturday I should be getting to 1080HD and staying there (like before), but that's not happening. I'm getting the same behavior as at 9:00pm on Friday. I'm seeing this new behavior

So are they playing games to prevent saturation of the interconnect so at least the chance of buffering is reduced?

It is also Summer and more people are doing things outdoors leaving less demand on current peering links which may have given that false impression of good performance earlier but I'm just guessing.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

I just ran a stream here on my iMac - it took me to 198.45.62.134

I did a tracert on it - getting really shitty results right now.

Why in the hell when I'm in Delaware am I routed to San Jose, CA for Netflix?

I'm getting a 130ms ping to that IP right now - about 50ms higher than usual.

Now, started a 2nd stream - now routing to 198.45.53.166 - which is 88ms in Seattle. Went there via Alter to Telia.net... still on the West Coast, but typical ping times.

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm to serge87

Member

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I could swear you have said in the past that you use pfSense. If so, open pfTop while streaming and look for the TCP connection that is growing in bytesize from your test device. All of the steaming servers I have found resolve into nflxvideo.net. I am mobile at the moment so I don't have any of the ranges and tools available. I find pftop to be easier with identifying streams compared to wireshark
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87

Member

said by norm:

I could swear you have said in the past that you use pfSense. If so, open pfTop while streaming and look for the TCP connection that is growing in bytesize from your test device. All of the steaming servers I have found resolve into nflxvideo.net. I am mobile at the moment so I don't have any of the ranges and tools available. I find pftop to be easier with identifying streams compared to wireshark

Good idea, I forgot about pfTop. I have lately been using TCPView for Windows and it can list by application, address, port/protocol and bytes sent/received in realtime.
qwert9999
join:2001-06-27
Port Richey, FL

qwert9999 to tk421storm

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to tk421storm

Re: Netflix unable to stream HD in Northeast?

after netflix paid verizon my netflix was ok for the last month or so. but started getting really low quality a few days ago. i looked online and saw verizon was mad about the buffering massage netflix used. so i've had low quality video ever since no matter what time of day. about 30% of the time it's so bad the picture is pixelated.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

Watched another episode yesterday of OITNB via our Xbox One - HD the whole time, no blips.

Just ran a stream on my PC - took a bit longer than usual to ramp up to HD - but ran a trace and noticed i'm finally routing to NYC - albeit via NTT.net

Round trip was 16ms...

kryptonian
join:2005-09-14
Philadelphia, PA

1 recommendation

kryptonian to navyson

Member

to navyson
said by navyson:

Since Netflix and Verizon seem to be having an ongoing spat in the media, could Verizon somehow sabatage the "peering agreement" deal by somehow delaying fixing the issue?

At this point, nothing would surprise me. I signed back up for Netflix streaming (via PS3 & 360) last Saturday. I'm a 50/25 sub, and Since than, I've barely gotten above 480 SD. This during off and on peak hours. Very disappointed! Looks like it will be one month and done with Netflix for me.
qwert9999
join:2001-06-27
Port Richey, FL

qwert9999 to tk421storm

Member

to tk421storm
still running like junk here. i checked tonight at 12am on a wired computer, 50/25 line. i left clicked while holding cap lock and alt you get the box with all the options. i hit av stats and was stuck at a 235 bit rate. i tried to force 1750 bit rate but i gave up after 10+ minutes.
i had to hit the back button and reload the movie since i couldn't do anything since it was buffering.
i hit av stats and got
playing bitrate 235
last bandwidth measurement 334

i watched it for 30 minutes and it never went over 235 bit rate. i closed it and i ordered the dvd so i could watch it.
betatester4
join:2014-06-09
united state

betatester4

Member

John Oliver explain in a funny way what is going to happen if we let ISP company to do whatever they want to do, but will be no funny for us at all. We will see the impact in our pockets. Today we are paying to FIOS $$$$ tomorrow will be $$$$$$$$$$ just to have the privilege of streaming HD of 4K video from any service provider Netflix, Hulu, Google, Apple, Amazon or any new company in the future.

»youtu.be/fpbOEoRrHyU
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87

Member

said by betatester4:

John Oliver explain in a funny way what is going to happen if we let ISP company to do whatever they want to do, but will be no funny for us at all. We will see the impact in our pockets. Today we are paying to FIOS $$$$ tomorrow will be $$$$$$$$$$ just to have the privilege of streaming HD of 4K video from any service provider Netflix, Hulu, Google, Apple, Amazon or any new company in the future.

That's right, everyone quickly go out and by a lobbyist now! There is no time!

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

birdfeedr

MVM

Could find a way to support EFF, or get something going with Consumer Reports. I think AARP is off the list, but there may be more.

Lobbyists on consumer side do not have the same funding as corporate side. Too bad.