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Netflixer to Geot
Anon
2013-Dec-29 4:37 pm
to Geot
Re: Netflix unable to stream HD in Northeast?Google is a transit customer of Verizon so that issue appears to be different inside of YouTube
The other CDNs work and amazon and hulu quality is still valid as they make good decisions for thier customers. The logic holds that the root issue is Netflix |
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to Geot
said by Geot :Do you have any sources you can link to since your basic logic isn't working so well? Actually the logic is sound. Netflix was working with other CDNs and broke when Netflix made all their changes. Hard to blame verizon for Netflix's choices (unless you are Netflix) Why can't OpenConnect work as well as other CDNs |
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
to Netflixer
said by Netflixer :•Netflix starts OpenConnect moving working traffic from Akamai, Limelight and Level 3 to their in house CDN Have you considered signing up for an account at DSLR or at least signing in if you have one already? As I've stated in the past, Netflix uses Level 3 and LLNW for a lot of their video distribution and even with them, there are still issues... ipv4_1.lagg0.c028.iad001.ix.nflxvideo.net routes through Level 3 for me. |
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Jetsfan
Anon
2013-Dec-29 7:02 pm
It is not just Verizon, but Comcast, TWC and others. They all have video streaming strategies of their own and they are in competition with Netflix. They can't blatantly slow down Netflix, but they most certainly are not going to do anything they don't have to to help them. Anyone who thinks this is all a Netflix issue either works for an ISP or is ignorant. |
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Bengie25 join:2010-04-22 Wisconsin Rapids, WI
2 recommendations |
to Netflixer
Netflix already pays for high quality transit, what they don't want to pay for is a CDN service on top of it.
While Netflix has been trying to switch over to their own CDN services, they still use Level 3 for their transit, and if ISPs use in house CDNs, then there is no transit, but that's voluntary and up to the ISP, nothing to do with Netflix.
The Cogent issue is a whole other ball game. Cogent is quite underhanded, Netflix should really stop using them.
I've read on some sites that many people have had great results when purchasing a VPN service. It's sad when you have to purchase a VPN service to make your Internet faster because your ISP has such bad routing. A VPN should always be slower. |
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Bengie25 1 edit |
to Netflixer
said by Netflixer :Lots of data and documented history in this and other ISP threads on DSLR •Netflix is a very large traffic source and use to work well (pre OpenConnect) •Neflix wants settlement free peering with ISPs but, does not meet their peering policies •Netflix starts OpenConnect moving working traffic from Akamai, Limelight and Level 3 to their in house CDN •Instead of using similar transit solutions as other CDNs, Netflix chooses transit that cannot handle the capacity and contests impacting user experience •Netflix ranks ISPs showing performance is degrading and blames the ISPs •Netflix says to fix the above created problem ISPs must give them settlement free peering (OpenConnect)
Since this issue is across multiple ISPs AND other video does not have the same problem, the common factor is Netflix business decions. Basic logic. You used the word "transit" a lot, but almost entirely in an incorrect way. Netflix does not provide any of its own transit.(which is implied when you said Netflix is switching to OpenConnect) Netflix provides its service via a few ways 1) Level 3 transit to regional CDN, which could be a Netflix OpenConnect or 3rd party CDN. But it doesn't matter because the bandwidth is provided as transit over Level 3 2) Free peering with ISPs at an IX via OpenConnect. This is up to the ISP to opt-in via peering 3) ISP gets an OpenConnect CDN and installs internally. This is also up to the ISP to opt-in for in-house hosting 4) A 3rd party CDN service, like Akamai or Limelight. This is up to the ISP to opt-in via peering If an ISP elects to not use open 2, 3, or 4, then Netflix will be delivered via Level 3 as transit and not as peering or CDN. This means the ISP will need to pay their ISP for transit. All ISPs are free to use option 1, which is how the Internet works by default. All of the other options are done via private peering contracts. It will cost most ISPs more for option 1, but no more than it costs Netflix. Netflix pays a fair price for their bandwidth, but it is typically in both party's interests to peer. |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
to tk421storm
its not you, its nf throttling you because they don't have enough bandwidth. look at the netflix ranking charts. google fibre at 1000mbps / 1000mbps only getting 3mbps! |
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
norm
Member
2013-Dec-30 11:44 am
said by dvd536:its not you, its nf throttling you because they don't have enough bandwidth. look at the netflix ranking charts. google fibre at 1000mbps / 1000mbps only getting 3mbps! The 3mbit is not NFLX throttling google fiber customers, the 3mbit is the maximum bitrate of their standard HD (read: non-"Super-HD") streams. Super-HD is only available on select devices and windows 8 as far as I know. |
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Well, if 3mbps is HD then it's even more ridiculous that I can barely get 480p at peak times. That can't be more than .75mbps, on my 35mbps line.
Maybe I should just dump netflix streaming until this pissing contest between carrier and content is over, and stick with less watched services like hulu or hbo go. I can have 3 blurays at home for about the same price as 1+streaming. |
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
norm
Member
2013-Dec-30 12:42 pm
said by tk421storm:Well, if 3mbps is HD then it's even more ridiculous that I can barely get 480p at peak times. That can't be more than .75mbps, on my 35mbps line.
Maybe I should just dump netflix streaming until this pissing contest between carrier and content is over, and stick with less watched services like hulu or hbo go. I can have 3 blurays at home for about the same price as 1+streaming. The speeds available not including the Super-HD stuff are: - 235kbit - 375kbit - 560kbit - 750kbit - 1050kbit - 1750kbit - 2350kbit - 3000kbit The streaming is similar to YouTube in that it only buffers a certain amount then stops depending on your position within the video. On a bad night, I'll see 235-560kbit tops. That's okay, it's... well, it's only almost 2014. |
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Whatever
Anon
2013-Dec-30 1:59 pm
I'm in the tampabay area and tried watching Netflix on Fios last night and it was so frustrating. Panasonic Blu ray player kept buffering every 20 seconds. Xbox 360 kept playing in such a low definition (almost unwatchable). What a disgrace. I have fios 75/35. |
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Geot
Anon
2013-Dec-30 3:59 pm
I was getting 3000kbit last night and again just now in Dallas. Shift+Alt+Left Click while watching on a Windows PC will give you all kinds of options and stats. |
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NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:Why can't OpenConnect work as well as other CDNs Seems to work with my ISP: Tracing route to ipv4_1.lagg0.c055.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.45.62.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Chihiro [192.168.102.1]
2 32 ms 32 ms 33 ms 173-228-7-1.dsl.static.sonic.net [173.228.7.1]
3 33 ms 32 ms 31 ms gig1-4.cr1.lsatca11.sonic.net [70.36.243.13]
4 61 ms 65 ms 64 ms 0.xe-5-1-0.gw.pao1.sonic.net [69.12.211.1]
5 39 ms 30 ms 36 ms ae2.0.gw.equinix-sj.sonic.net [50.0.2.14]
6 47 ms 47 ms 50 ms netflix-peering.sonic.net [209.148.113.10]
7 31 ms 30 ms 30 ms ipv4_1.lagg0.c055.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.45.62.164]
Trace complete.
The trace route destination is taken from my router netstat table: Proto NATed Address Destination Address State
tcp 192.168.102.15:42402 198.45.62.164:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.102.15:42401 198.45.62.164:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.102.15:42405 198.45.62.164:80 ESTABLISHED
tcp 192.168.102.15:42403 198.45.62.164:80 ESTABLISHED
P.S. Sony BDP-S5100 is reporting 1080 HD. |
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rebus9 join:2002-03-26 Tampa Bay |
to tk421storm
said by tk421storm:Is anyone else unable to watch netflix at anything more than 75% quality in the northeast? I've got 35mbps down, ethernet throughout the house, and I'm still lucky if I get 75% quality streams - HD is right out. Is this normal? Unfortunately it's become the "New Normal" for Netflix. Was a happy Netflix customer since 2010, until the past few months. Almost unwatchable at night. Can't get HD, often get only 2/5 quality. If a stream starts in HD, it usually dies, buffers, and drops to 2/5 or 3/5. I'm using Amazon Prime streaming a lot more recently. Solid HD, fast loading. Called Netflix twice to complain. Called this weekend, and the rep told me to use another DNS provider, "like Google's public DNS service". Tried it, just for fun, made no difference. I have both FIOS and Brighthouse Road Runner service at home, and Netflix is just as bad on both ISPs. |
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hally Premium Member join:2000-02-21 Long Beach, NY |
to tk421storm
I have been having issues with my Sony Bravia so tonight I switched to my PS3 which is wireless, the TV is wired. PS3 played the same show fine that the TV wouldn't. So it may be a device issue too. |
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
to tk421storm
It appears that Verizon is continuing to allow Level 3 peering points to remain saturated. Using Level 3's looking glass to me from various points around the country yield terrible results and I suspect it has a lot to do with Level 3 providing transit for Netflix. |
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hally Premium Member join:2000-02-21 Long Beach, NY |
to tk421storm
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
norm
Member
2014-Jan-8 11:27 pm
The data you linked to represents up to November, 2013. They generally update it around the 10th of every month to reflect prior month's data. So... We should see an update by EOW. |
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hally Premium Member join:2000-02-21 Long Beach, NY |
hally
Premium Member
2014-Jan-9 6:19 am
I don't really follow this sort of thing until recently when my Netflix on my Bravia started stopping and buffering like crazy. Interesting that Cablevision gets much better Netflix scores... But......it plays fine on my PS3 so I've been looking into it. |
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to tk421storm
Just wanted to chime in here with my experience...
I moved from Riverside, CA (AT&T U-Verse 18/1.5 mbps) to Westchester County, NY (FIOS 50/25 mbps) in last month. On all of my wired devices, U-Verse was able to provide Super HD Netflix streams 24/7 without fail. On FIOS with the exact same devices/configuration I can't get an HD stream between mid-afternoon and midnight.
My parents live in Riverside, CA and use Charter Cable (30/4 mbps) and have no problems getting HD or Super HD.
Personally, this is a real bummer and I wanted to love having FIOS. |
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thetick join:2009-06-22 White Plains, NY |
to tk421storm
Welcome to the East Coast. Notice no one from the West Coast ever complains about Netflix performance. There are advantages living close to the server farm especially when your ISP does not have Netflix cache servers in the local datacenters. |
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bohratomMy Jersey Giants finally winning again.. join:2011-07-07 Red Bank NJ |
said by thetick:There are advantages living close to the server farm Google has server farms all over the US (including some run by a third party) and people on the east coast receive their Youtube streams from the East Coast for the most part depending on traffic. |
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thetick join:2009-06-22 White Plains, NY |
said by bohratom:said by thetick:There are advantages living close to the server farm Google has server farms all over the US (including some run by a third party) and people on the east coast receive their Youtube streams from Servers on the East Coast. Yes... but this thread is about NetFlix not Google. NetFlix does not but offers Netflix caches ervers for the local datacenter. ISPs on the East Coast who choose not to install the cache servers (including Verizon!) always have Netflix reliability issues. |
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bohratomMy Jersey Giants finally winning again.. join:2011-07-07 Red Bank NJ |
said by thetick:Yes... but this thread is about NetFlix not Google. Brainfart.... I was mixing this thread up with another site. |
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navyson join:2011-07-15 Upper Marlboro, MD |
to tk421storm
I use a Roku player and only the Netflix stream buffers.
Tonight, I was about to watch a HD movie on Netflix and it buffered at the start and quality went from HD(4 dots) to two dots.
I went to Amazon Prime to watch the same HD movie and there was no buffering. |
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JT @verizon.net |
JT
Anon
2014-Jan-22 10:13 pm
I have the same problem. Amazon Prime excellent quality most all the time. Netflix poor to average quality at best. No problem with VUDU either. |
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navyson join:2011-07-15 Upper Marlboro, MD |
to tk421storm
I tried several other HD movies on Netflix and all were downshifted to SD quality tonight.
Amazon Prime played all HD movies with no problems. |
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to tk421storm
Yesterday HD Netflix streaming was miserable. I was on my computer all day except to shovel snow and I don't think I got an HD stream once. If I am going to be using Netflix a lot I'd consider jumping to Comcast if their handling of Netflix is better. |
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norm join:2012-10-18 Pittsburgh, PA |
norm
Member
2014-Jan-23 9:02 am
said by inajeep4:Yesterday HD Netflix streaming was miserable. I was on my computer all day except to shovel snow and I don't think I got an HD stream once. If I am going to be using Netflix a lot I'd consider jumping to Comcast if their handling of Netflix is better. Check out the Comcast forums here... I'd hardly say they handle it better. |
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Unfortunately, since everything else I do (download, stream other services, gaming, hosting) is lightning fast on FiOS, I've cancelled my netflix streaming account. I'm not sure who's at fault, but I'm not going to pay for something that doesn't work when I need it. |
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