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SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt to blue_trooper

Premium Member

to blue_trooper

Re: Netflix unable to stream HD in Northeast?

Same here last night.

Watched 2 episodes of OITNB via my XboxOne - PQ was HD constantly. I sometimes think it really depends on how you access Netflix and if you truly are affected.
sorrow777
join:2014-06-06
usa

sorrow777 to PJL

Member

to PJL
said by PJL:

When I open a Netflix stream I either get a connection with ipv4_1.lagg0.c047.lax001.ix.nflxvideo.net [108.175.46.92] (which routes through NTT) or to ipv4_1.lagg0.c002.lax004.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.96.131] (which routed through Telia) depending on the way I connect, i.e. via IE or the Windows 8 client. I routinely get lower connection rates through the Telia connection.

If you were to block the Telia connection what happens? I may have to try this (:

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm

Member

said by sorrow777:

said by PJL:

When I open a Netflix stream I either get a connection with ipv4_1.lagg0.c047.lax001.ix.nflxvideo.net [108.175.46.92] (which routes through NTT) or to ipv4_1.lagg0.c002.lax004.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.38.96.131] (which routed through Telia) depending on the way I connect, i.e. via IE or the Windows 8 client. I routinely get lower connection rates through the Telia connection.

If you were to block the Telia connection what happens? I may have to try this (:

I tried this approach in the past - blocking routes that were congested. Generally what would happen is the occasional video would play better but a lot of videos simply would not play anymore. I also did this with YouTube with no luck; too many videos wouldn't load.
billhere
join:2011-10-21
Santa Monica, CA

billhere to PJL

Member

to PJL
Google's DNS servers. See this Wikipedia article:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go ··· blic_DNS
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

3 recommendations

PJL

Member

said by billhere:

Google's DNS servers. See this Wikipedia article:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go ··· blic_DNS

The DNS server has nothing to do with the route Netflix uses to provide the feed to the client. It is determined by the connection Netflix establishes when a client requests the stream. Netflix assigns a specific server cluster based on the client and routes it using a content provider they select and for Apple TV they use a better path. It has been reported that the Apple TV client gets higher quality streams. This is what you are seeing, not your DNS choice. If it were as simple as selecting an alternate DNS server, we could all have solved our own streaming issues long ago.
ktulucom
join:2004-09-29
Argyle, TX

ktulucom to PJL

Member

to PJL
said by PJL:

Why would Verizon not update those peering points? One possibly is that they want money from Level3, Telia, or NTT to do it to compensate for the imbalance. The other is that they're trying to eliminate the middleman from the path from Netflix to Verizon. But that's what's happening as Netflix connects directly to the Verizon network. Netflix won't have to pay the middlemen for transit. They'll pay it to Verizon for the connection. Will this be more or less than what they were paying the middlemen? Hmmmm...I scratch my head on that one.

You would think they want to provide the best service to their customers by increasing the peering. Content providers usually choose networks based on the level of service offered, how quickly they can provision, and access to other networks in key cities. My guess is that Verizon can give the access to the other networks, they are a Tier1, I usually get decent service (although I do tunnel out of Verizon's network, so that has declined), so my guess might be the provisioning process, cost, and maybe level of service? Verizon isn't one of the top 5 transit providers according to Renesys' Bakers Dozen (»www.renesys.com/2014/01/ ··· edition/), so that might have something to do with it as well. I'm not in sales, or a buyer, and these things aren't something I usually discuss with my peers in the industry.
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

1 recommendation

PJL

Member

said by ktulucom:

You would think they want to provide the best service to their customers by increasing the peering.

This is a devil's advocate reply:
But why would they? The provisioning process, cost, and maybe level of service are likely set by the peering agreement (contract) and as a business why should Verizon implement something above that without compensation from the peer? Especially when they can provide improved service to us by simply getting Netflix to bypass the middleman, which is what Verizon is doing.

This is all about money (and the strategy to make more) I think. And since Verizon has the end-user base already (us) it is simply trying to bring the content provider into its network also. At that point, we can truly blame Verizon for poor Netflix streaming -- unless, of course, the Netflix servers can't handle the traffic as suggested by someone's prior post. And at that point the contest between Verizon and Netflix could begin again.
navyson
join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD

2 edits

navyson to tk421storm

Member

to tk421storm
Looks like Verizon is intentionally moving "slow" it fix its issues with Netflix.

=======================================================

For the full story see: »arstechnica.com/business ··· on-does/

by Jon Brodkin - July 29 2014, 8:15pm EDT

Netflix has agreed to pay AT&T for a direct connection to the Internet service provider's network, a move that will improve streaming video quality.

The deal is no surprise - it was widely expected after Netflix reached similar agreements with Comcast and Verizon. What is surprising is that AT&T customers might see their Netflix quality problems resolved before Verizon customers.

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

1 recommendation

guppy_fish

Premium Member

These reports seem to counter your link of an article. Most major regions are now direct connected by reported by actual Verizon customers. The reports of issues have slowed to a trickle.

»[Networking] 1st Proof of Verizon / Netflix Direct Peering????

Chris123NT
join:2001-11-24
Palm Bay, FL
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter ER-4
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-nanoHD
Motorola MB8611

1 recommendation

Chris123NT

Member

said by guppy_fish:

These reports seem to counter your link of an article. Most major regions are now direct connected by reported by actual Verizon customers. The reports of issues have slowed to a trickle.

»[Networking] 1st Proof of Verizon / Netflix Direct Peering????

The direct linking is inconsistent at best, I had a direct link for a week and then it was gone and I can't stream over 1000kbps since during the evenings.

Oh and I'm in NY which you would think would be one of the first areas to go live with a direct peering agreement.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

Chris-
You are right. I went back to a Level3 route this morning. And have a ton of friends bitching on Facebook about their Netflix buffering via Verizon last night..

It's odd VZ is letting such bad press get out on this - they could've avoided all of this.
navyson
join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD

navyson to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
I watched Netflix last night on my Roku box. Only got two dots and the movie buffered a few times. I have a 50 megabit connection.

Chris123NT
join:2001-11-24
Palm Bay, FL
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter ER-4
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-nanoHD
Motorola MB8611

1 recommendation

Chris123NT to SeattleMatt

Member

to SeattleMatt
said by SeattleMatt:

Chris-
You are right. I went back to a Level3 route this morning. And have a ton of friends bitching on Facebook about their Netflix buffering via Verizon last night..

It's odd VZ is letting such bad press get out on this - they could've avoided all of this.

Yeah I was watching some House episodes last night, first one was full HD and then every one after that wouldn't even make it to 720p, was pretty bad. I was getting routed through L3 as well.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

Honestly I don't understand how any of this is working. Once these direct peers are set up, we should be accessing them 100% of the time. But I know there's a lot more to it than that..

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm

Member

said by SeattleMatt:

Honestly I don't understand how any of this is working. Once these direct peers are set up, we should be accessing them 100% of the time. But I know there's a lot more to it than that..

I am wondering if Netflix is changing the route due to congestion on Verizon's side. I've noticed that the route to get to Netflix and Google Global Cache in Philly overlap at times and packet loss starts on the Verizon side. Look at the 2nd to last hop on the below example. 204.148.2.62 is a part of Verizon according to ARIN.

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|    L100.PITBPA-VFTTP-33.verizon-gni.net -    0 |  255 |  255 |    2 |    6 |  170 |    3 |
|  G0-4-1-2.PITBPA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net -    0 |  255 |  255 |    2 |    5 |   17 |    6 |
| xe-0-1-0-0.PHIL-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net -    0 |  255 |  255 |   10 |   23 |  116 |   21 |
|                   No response from host -  100 |   50 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|               0.ae6.GW12.PHL6.ALTER.NET -    0 |  255 |  255 |   10 |   11 |   25 |   19 |
|                            204.148.2.62 -   27 |  123 |   90 |    0 |   11 |   14 |   12 |
|81.32.199.65.philadelphia.google-ggc.verizon.com -   28 |  119 |   86 |    0 |   11 |   14 |   10 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
 

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

2 recommendations

guppy_fish to tk421storm

Premium Member

to tk421storm
I suspect this is on NetFlix's end now. Even though they do now have many direct connections with Verizon, NetFlix penny pinching ways would favor using other transits.

ALL routing of NetFlix Video is up to NetFlix, even if there are clear direct highspeed lanes, doesn't mean NexFlix will always use them

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

Last night must've been particularly bad here in the NE -

Aside from seeing friends' posts on FB, also seeing a lot of Twitter griping today about Netflix last night...
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87 to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

ALL routing of NetFlix Video is up to NetFlix, even if there are clear direct highspeed lanes, doesn't mean NexFlix will always use them

Correct. Sender chooses the path, from here(#9 in the list):

http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Art-Of-Peering-The-Peering-Playbook.html#9
dj_eric
join:2004-11-19
Kennett Square, PA

1 recommendation

dj_eric

Member

This isn't necessarily true. The receiver or ISP B in your example can simply filter BGP routes such that it will not receive ISP A's AS number from ISP G.
EX on Cisco:
ip as-path access-list 1 deny _2906$
ip as-path access-list 1 permit .*

This would mean any routes for AS2906 (Netflix) would have to travel another BGP route to get to ISP B if placed on that neighbor.

In fact, I would argue that this is much easier than a CDN dividing up seperate C class networks and announcing specific routes to specific peers and using selective request lookups on the front facing web servers to decide which streaming server to use.