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XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Check the oil label!!!

We've been debating oil brands and types here in the HI forum lately, and I saw something today that played right into that whole concept. I was in a Dollar General store earlier, and went down the automotive aisle. Sitting on the shelf was DG Auto branded oil (Dollar General's house brand). They had two viscosities, SAE 30 and 10W-40.

Most typical 4-stroke lawn equipment takes SAE 30 for summer use. Price was about 2 bucks a quart or so and it was placed right next to the name-brand auto motor oils, such as Pennzoil Platinum and Castrol. Interested in this inexpensive DG oil, I picked one up and read the label…. and found out in the fine print that it was rated SA, and was not recommended to be used in any engine newer than 1930!!! It didn't even have an API donut logo!!

I then picked up the DG Auto 10W-40, and it was SF, and not recommended for any engine manufactured after 1988!! And same thing, it had no API donut logo!! I couldn't believe they sold this stuff on shelves still. How many people walk in there and simply read "SAE 30" or "10W-40", buy the stuff, and pour it in their tractors, lawn mowers, vehicles, etc., never even looking at the label.

Moral of the story: Take a few extra moments and READ THOSE OIL CONTAINER LABELS CAREFULLY!!!

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

There's certainly nothing illegal about selling oil with those designations and markings but it sure does present something that's confusing for the consumer. That being said it was back to the old saying, "Buyer Beware". The problem with that is that very few people even know what the designations of oil quality mean past the viscosity numbers.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

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Dollar General and other dollar stores do not always represent the best value. I have seen this with dish soap, laundry detergent, and other cleaning chemicals. I have seen it with dish scrubbers. I have seen it with food items. You have to reads the labels and do some math to compare to other stores like Kroger, Food Depot, and Piggly Wiggly. It is kind of underhanded to stock motor oil for engines with such a limited engine manufacturing date. I understand DG customers may not usually drive late model vehicles, but a 1990 or 2000 cutoff might be a lot more reasonable than 1930. As far as motor oil I usually direct people to try the various chain auto part stores, as one of them usually has some kind of motor oil at a decent price that will meet the required specifications.
54067323 (banned)
join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

54067323 (banned) to Msradell

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to Msradell
said by Msradell:

The problem with that is that very few people even know what the designations of oil quality mean past the viscosity numbers.

And even more of them buy based on price, hence the reason dollar/x stores even exist.

The mindset is, why pay retail when one can get an item of lesser value at a higher price than retail, once the overall total costs of ownership are factored in.

Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to davidhoffman

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to davidhoffman
said by davidhoffman:

Dollar General and other dollar stores do not always represent the best value.

You are correct. Some name brand name products packaging, includes less of the product in the container than super market brand packaging. One "Dollar Store" I visited had 14 Ounce bottles of Coca Cola brand products in there cooler, rather than 16 Ounce or 20 Ounce bottles. Price per ounce was higher.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

I detest the trend of prepackaged sausage or deli meat makers changing from 16oz to 14oz packages. Now the mayonaise guys have gone from 32oz to 30oz jars. This only leads to more of the stuff you saw with the Coca-Cola, when they repackage for dollar stores. I bet we will see 27oz jars of mayonaise and 11oz packages of deli meats.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to XXXXXXXXXXX1

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While SA rating is certainly bad and such oil probably have no use in automotive engines, SF isn't that bad. For one thing, SF oil has more ZDDP than modern oils, and that may matter with certain engines. See: »www.bobistheoilguy.com/f ··· r=192843

In any case, if you go to a Dollar store, you should know that usually there is a reason why things are so cheap there.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by aurgathor:

While SA rating is certainly bad and such oil probably have no use in automotive engines, SF isn't that bad.

Neither of those bottles were API certified at all. Even if labeled "SA" or "SF", it's a designation given by DG, not the API or other recognized organization.

I thought about buying one of those SAE 30 bottles and having a VOA done purely out of curiosity, but that would purely be a waste of money.

pike
Premium Member
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC

pike to davidhoffman

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said by davidhoffman:

I detest the trend ...

It's been dubbed the "grocery shrink ray" and has been going on for years now. »consumerist.com/category ··· ink-ray/
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

I much prefer being treated as an adult who can deal with inflation and price variation issues. I deal with it successfully for gallons of milk, water, and motor fuels. I deal with it for pounds of plain fresh or frozen meat, fruit, and vegetables. I deal with it for 2 liter bottles of sodapop. Why do so many of the packaged processed food manufacturers think changing standard content amounts is a good idea? It irritates the retail consumer. Let the consumer handle the price changes, but keep the mass of the contents of the package the same. The nonsense with pre-ground coffee containers changing content amounts so often is one that really irritates me as the person responsible for the coffee bar at work. Give me my old 2 or 3 pounds of coffee per can back.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

But you buy the product anyway don't you? Manufacturers win.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed to davidhoffman

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to davidhoffman
said by davidhoffman:

I detest the trend of prepackaged sausage or deli meat makers changing from 16oz to 14oz packages. Now the mayonaise guys have gone from 32oz to 30oz jars. This only leads to more of the stuff you saw with the Coca-Cola, when they repackage for dollar stores. I bet we will see 27oz jars of mayonaise and 11oz packages of deli meats.

Has zero to do with Dollar stores - it is a way to increase the price without actually increasing the price.

dark_star
join:2003-11-14
Louisville

dark_star to pike

Member

to pike
said by pike:

the "grocery shrink ray"

Kroger is now selling 20 packs of Coke instead of 24. Same price, 16.6% less product.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

I noticed our Walmart is selling the 20 pk. But next week selling 24 pk. Don't know about that
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor

Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

I noticed our Walmart is selling the 20 pk. But next week selling 24 pk. Don't know about that

Thats just a Christmas Special. Get 20 for the price of 24 in the name of the holidays.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

I think we're getting away from the main point here. I agree some stores/companies are packing less and charging the same price, effectively raising the price per unit of measure. But even so, the content of the package is still the same. Whether you are buying a 16oz bag of ABC chips for X or buying a 12.2oz bag of ABC chips for X, it's the same ABC chips in the bag.

What's happening here is the consumer (who doesn't know about or understand oil ratings or doesn't thoroughly read the label) is buying a product packaged in a typical quart bottle that doesn't come close to meeting modern oil specs and could actually damage their equipment by using it. The fact that's it's packaged in the same size quart bottle at a lower price makes it all the more confusing.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed

MVM

Nope - er get that but then anyone who thinks they are getting quality oil from Dollar General has more issues than they realize or think they do.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by CylonRed:

Nope - er get that but then anyone who thinks they are getting quality oil from Dollar General has more issues than they realize or think they do.

The Dollar General I was at had Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic right next to the DG Auto house brand. While not my brand of choice, PP is a very high quality oil. Price was about $4/qt for the PP.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

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Member

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It seems that some extensive analysis has already been done on this brand:

»www.pqiamerica.com/Janau ··· auto.htm

More info:

»www.pqiamerica.com/Novem ··· 012.html

»www.pqiamerica.com/sampl ··· test.htm

Their home page is plastered with warnings: »www.pqiamerica.com/

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to XXXXXXXXXXX1

MVM

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
It would be better and more expectation of quality from a store that actually knows about cars and engines and carry many quality oils... I stand by my assertation.

magicjimmy
join:2006-03-23
Tucson, AZ

magicjimmy to davidhoffman

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to davidhoffman
It is all about profit. The vast majority of consumers never realize they are being shorted, yet paying the same price. This results in more sales and less cost for the manufacturer.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

But you buy the product anyway don't you? Manufacturers win.

Yeah, the whole "grocery shrink ray" thing has been happening on-and-off for decades now. My favorite story from 20 or so years ago concerns the number of tampons in any given package - as if women weren't going to notice this reduction, or tolerate a smaller number, often at the worst possible time for them. Well, they DID notice, and they DIDN'T tolerate it, and they blew their tops (so to speak), to the point where this particular form of shrinkage made headlines at the Wall Street Journal!

To your particular point, though, one thing this type of activity short-circuits is the whole price-elasticity, supply-and-demand curve. If the package remains the same but the price goes up too much, then people will either stop buying it as often (if at all) and/or move to a competitor's product or maybe just to a completely different replacement product. So the manufacturer/supplier/retailer/whoever is forced to respond by trying to keep prices in check, which often has repercussions going all the way back to the original sources. However, reducing the package size tends to keep sales going strong in spite of the actual, hidden price increase here. Hence there is little or no incentive for the price to remain steady or to go down, and in fact there may be a rather large incentive (increased profits) for the price to continue going up, at least for quite a while.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

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Great website. Thanks for the link.

junkoil
@mycingular.net

junkoil to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Anon

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
Definitely agree, oil of this quality shouldn't be marketed as motor oil and DG shouldn't sell any oil that only meets minimum specs for a Model-T. That said, I would imagine anyone who would likely buy DG oil probably has minimal resources to buy something better. For many, the choice isn't between good or better but between barely acceptable or none at all.

DG et al is known for cheap and cheap is what they normally deliver. The problem is with consumers; most don't know the difference between cheap and a good value.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

said by CylonRed:

Nope - er get that but then anyone who thinks they are getting quality oil from Dollar General has more issues than they realize or think they do.

The Dollar General I was at had Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic right next to the DG Auto house brand. While not my brand of choice, PP is a very high quality oil. Price was about $4/qt for the PP.

I've seen the same thing here at Dollar General and Family Dollar. The put down of people that have few options because of money is really UN-necessary
Jack_in_VA

Jack_in_VA to scross

Premium Member

to scross
Walmart has found the method. Manufacturers cannot ignore the volume Walmart buys and to lose them as a customer would be disastrous in some cases.

When I can buy Bryers Ice Cream for $3.47 at walmart I'm not about to pay $5.59 at Food Lion.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed to Jack_in_VA

MVM

to Jack_in_VA
Understand - Dollar General does not automatically mean cheaper. Many of the major stores that carry oil, extremely reasonably priced oil that is very likely better than 99.999% of oil at Dollar General.

Sorry - but it is not a put down. I have been dirt poor (a just over a doallal bean burrito from TB was a nice meal out) and never thought of getting oil at a Dollar General store or anything like it. I could always find better oil at reasonable prices at far more trustworthy stores.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Same with me but then I'm not anyone else but me so I can't speak for those who see that need. Also many poor have vehicles with engines on their last leg so the oil probably doesn't make that much difference. I've known people have to put 2 quarts of oil in every fill up.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
Breyers? Hah! The joke's on you my friend. That's probably not even "ice cream", and hasn't been for quite a while now. Check the label.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br ··· -cutting

Booost
@151.190.40.x

Booost to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Anon

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

I thought about buying one of those SAE 30 bottles and having a VOA done purely out of curiosity, but that would purely be a waste of money.

Local cable news channel did just that:
said by News12 NJ :
EDISON - A Kane in Your Corner investigation finds motor oil not suitable for cars is for sale at gas stations and convenience stores in New Jersey. Some of it is contaminated, some of it is for cars made before the 1930s, and some of it is possibly even used oil that has been repackaged and resold. All of it can do serious damage to your car according to an exclusive Kane In Your Corner investigation.

"The probability of getting some of this bad stuff is pretty high here in New Jersey," says Tom Glenn, president of the Petroleum Quality Institute of America.

News 12 New Jersey purchased four brands of motor oil and had them tested at an independent lab. The results indicate all are unsafe for today's cars, according to the PQIA and standards set by the American Petroleum Institute. As a result, Kane In Your Corner gave all four brands "failing" grades.

MaxiGuard Super Premium

While MaxiGuard's label called it, "a superior all weather motor oil," lab tests indicated it could harm your car, and was possible waste oil that had been repackaged after previous use.

The independent lab found MaxiGuard did not meet the viscosity standards on its label (the bottle tested claimed to be 10W-40) and was contaminated with silicon, or sand, in levels more than 400 times higher than are typically found in motor oil, according to the PQIA. The lab also noted high levels of iron and aluminum. Those contaminants are abrasive and can cause harm to engines says Glenn, who says the results "are reflective of what you'd see in a used oil sample."

Longtime mechanic Kenny Wetzel also thought the MaxiGuard oil was used, because of its black, cloudy appearance. "That looks like what we take out of a car when we change the oil," he said.

The manufacturer of MaxiGuard, Bass Oil and Chemical, says the bottles obtained by News 12 New Jersey had been recalled, but must not have been returned by the retailer. The company admits MaxiGuard used to make inferior quality oil, but says the product has improved under new ownership.

Black Knight

Tests showed Black Knight could be harmful to most cars on the road today. The results indicated the oil contains minimal additives and the PQIA says it would have "little to no ability to prevent corrosion." The sample also contained significantly higher than normal levels of silicon, which Glenn says are typical of contamination.

The grade of this motor oil is a mystery. Black Knight's label calls it a "10-30" (rather than the typical 10W-30) without explanation for what that means. Lab tests show the oil is not a 10W-30, and would not provide acceptable protection for cars that require that type of oil.

Kane In Your Corner found Black Knight for sale at convenience stores and gas stations across central New Jersey, including a Raceway in South Edison and a Delta in Fords. Jimmy Nanda, the owner of the Delta station, told News 12 New Jersey's Walt Kane he only started selling the product recently and would stop doing so.

The manufacturer of Black Knight, Smitty's Supply, declined Kane In Your Corner's request for comment.

US Economy

Test results show US Economy, "could be harmful to most cars on the road today," according to the PQIA.

Tests show US economy had silicon levels 10 times higher than typically found in new motor oil, and the PQIA says it has "little to no ability to prevent corrosion."

The label also says the oil is only safe to use "top off," provoking a strong reaction from Kane In Your Corner's mechanic. "I wouldn't put this in my lawnmower," Wetzel says. "You obviously can't fill your car up with it so there must be something wrong with it."

US Economy is also another case of the "Missing W". The oil purchased was labeled "5-30" (rather than 5W-30) and the label claims that means the viscosity can be anywhere between those two numbers, which Glenn says makes it unsafe for any driver to use.

The manufacturer of US Economy, Great Lakes Lubricants, says it has stopped producing this product, and stores are simply selling off the existing supply. However, Kane In Your Corner found the product for sale at many different convenience stores and gas stations across central New Jersey.

US Spirit 10W-40

Test results, along with US Spirit's own labeling, indicate that not only is this product not safe for today's cars, it may not be suitable for any car ever made.

US Spirit's label actually includes a warning that it is "not suitable for use in most gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1930" and may cause "equipment harm" in "modern engines." Unfortunately, to see that warning, consumers would have to turn the bottle over and read the small print on the back label.

Lab tests revealed another problem. The reason US Spirit says its oil is only suitable for cars built in 1930 or earlier is that "it contains no additive." However, lab tests revealed just the opposite. The oil is "chock full of additive," Glenn said, but not the right kind for today's vehicles.

"If this oil isn't good for newer cars, and it also isn't safe for old cars, then what kind of car would it be good for?" News 12 New Jersey's Walt Kane asked Glenn. A stumped Glenn replied, "I can't think of one."

US Spirit is also made by Great Lakes Lubricants, which tells Kane In Your Corner "there is a market" for its product. The company insists that the oil is intended only for pre-1930 cars, and that "there are a lot of them on the road". The company also downplayed the lab tests showing the oil contains high quantities of additive, despite its label saying it had none, arguing that the test results merely prove that "US Spirit combines the old and the new."


»newjersey.news12.com/new ··· .6579785