IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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[Plumbing] Holiday toilet troubleIf my stress isn't high enough around the holidays with shopping, car trouble, and other things; karma is that everything that can go wrong with our health, the car, or the house always happens around the holidays whether it be thanksgiving, 4th of July, or Christmas. I know someone who's furnace died two days before Christmas and had to pay after hours/holiday rates to get it replaced.
Well, here is my tale of holiday trouble, today while using the downstairs toilet, I noticed a water stain under the upstairs toilet that I repaired the flange on earlier this year. I'm wondering if it could have been leaking before or after I fixed it or if there is a way of telling. I may just avoid using that toilet until I can pull it up and redo the flange (I used one of those "moss bay" repair kits, as ours are metal rings around ABS). I'm also thinking the toilet may be bad as it dates back to 1988. If I replace the toilet, I am going to approach the landlord and get her OK to expense the new toilet to her as I'm not going to fork over $200 for something that she's responsible for. She'll probably want it replaced anyways as the newer ones only use 1.28 gallons per flush and the old one probably uses 3.5 gallons per flush and she pays water.
The only reason I bought the downstairs toilet is I needed one with the higher rim for grandma and her hip replacement/mobility issues. |
actions · 2013-Dec-25 12:50 pm · (locked) |
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Unless the toilet is cracked you should be able to repair or replace any leaking or broken parts. The actual issue may not be the toilet but the flooring underneath deteriorating helping to break the seal you installed. I would first look for any leaks at any other location than the base flange. If none are evident I would completely remove the toilet and carefully examine the flooring. If it is in good condition I would try another base flange seal repair or replacement.
You probably have a valuable plumbing fixture in a 3.5 GPF toilet. I would not give up on it easily, as the low flow plumbing fixtures give lousy performance compared to the old fixtures. |
actions · 2013-Dec-25 4:00 pm · (locked) |
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to IowaCowboy
You're going to consider replacing an entire toilet when probably the only thing needed if anything is a $5 wax seal? |
actions · 2013-Dec-25 4:07 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
1 edit |
said by Jack_in_VA:You're going to consider replacing an entire toilet when probably the only thing needed if anything is a $5 wax seal? Replacing THAT toilet would be a nightmare as it's a second story bathroom. Bringing the new toilet upstairs would be easy as it is in two pieces. Carrying the old one out and not dripping dirty water all over is the hard part. When I did the downstairs toilet, I had a backache for a couple of days after from carrying the old toilet out. And that was just through the kitchen and out the back door. I could take a sledgehammer but that would be messy. The proper way is to separate the tank and the bowl, I was just too lazy to fiddle with seized/rusted bolts. I know one of the landlords biggest gripes is water/sewer costs so I might offer to replace the toilet as I have to pull it up anyways but only if she pays for the new potty. The old owner complained about water/sewer costs as well (which is why the lawn sprinklers have been decommissioned). |
actions · 2013-Dec-25 4:19 pm · (locked) |
Ken MVM join:2003-06-16 Markle, IN |
to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:Carrying the old one out and not dripping dirty water all over is the hard part This is how I remove toilets from a house: Put down a trash bag on the floor near the tub or shower. Open the trash bag up as much as possible. Carry the toilet to the tub or shower. Once inside, slowly tip the toilet to a 45 degree angle. This will release most of the water in the toilet trap and send it down the drain. Carry the toilet over and sit it down on the trash bag. Pull the sides of the bag up around the base. You can now carry the toilet outside, and you won't dump any dirty water on the floor. |
actions · 2013-Dec-26 11:14 am · (locked) |
StillLearn Premium Member join:2002-03-21 Streamwood, IL |
to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:When I did the downstairs toilet, I had a backache for a couple of days after from carrying the old toilet out. If you carry it out, I suggest you get a helper. Regarding removing water before lifting, a wet-dry vacuum or even an old towel/rag can be used to remove the water. |
actions · 2013-Dec-26 1:02 pm · (locked) |
garys_2k Premium Member join:2004-05-07 Farmington, MI |
garys_2k
Premium Member
2013-Dec-26 6:34 pm
Yeah, when I've taken toilets out I use the rag method. No fun but no mess, either. |
actions · 2013-Dec-26 6:34 pm · (locked) |
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to IowaCowboy
That isn't your holiday trouble, it's that of the landlady. That said, about your stress, there's an incredibly simple solution to alleviate it in under 5 minutes. As a renter you can pick up the phone and call the landlady and explain there is evidence of water leakage around the base of the toilet and you'd like a professional to look at it. Now you can sit back and relax and not worry about having to shell out cash for a toilet and put thought into how to get the old one out or worry about having a messed up back for a week. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 9:55 am · (locked) |
LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
to IowaCowboy
You rent... |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 10:30 am · (locked) |
nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO |
to IowaCowboy
When I was renter, here's how I dealt with plumbing issues: "Hello, lannlord? The toilet is broken. Send somebody to fix it. Merry Christmas. Enjoy my rent check." |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 11:10 am · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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to ImpetusEra
And then raise my rent to pay for it. It's not like she is a well organized landlord with a 240 unit complex. She just has her house which is a duplex and ours. I try to keep her costs down as when her costs go up so do rents. I pay rent not only in cash but labor as well by doing maintenance (such as snow removal, small repairs, lawn care, etc). And she just took a hit with the damage the other tenants in the other unit left behind. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 11:14 am · (locked) |
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Your rent will rise either way to cover costs. What goes on in the other unit isn't of your concern. You shouldn't do any trades work in a rental property, probably not even if you own it. Maybe the toilet is leaking now because you improperly installed the flange or it was defective. A licensed plumber is insured and can be compensated by the manufacturer for defective products. How does it help her out if you did something wrong and now the subfloor is all soggy and moldy? You're stressing yourself by creating needless work you shouldn't be doing and causing her stress with a constant stream of materials cost and "problems" with her rental property. I don't know what the permit requirements there are for work but if she ever goes to sell that place she could be out a lot of money due to the amount of work done and lack of permits.
If you want to be helpful then turn the water off to the toilet and don't use it for a day. See if the level in the tank drops enough to suggest it is leaking or if the appearance of the water stain changes. If nothing changes then just keep an eye on it. If something changes that suggests a problem then report your findings to the landlady. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 12:05 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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I prefer to do repairs myself for several reasons. One is I don't like having people coming in our house that I don't know. Second is I have a level of distrust with the "handyman" type people that landlords typically hire. When I was a kid, our landlord hired a guy to repair the water heater (gas) and he was not licensed and he did so in an unsafe way that almost killed my mother and myself. My mother ended up having a neighbor fix the problem that the landlords handyman said didn't need to be fixed. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:03 pm · (locked) |
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reallyreally to IowaCowboy
Anon
2013-Dec-27 1:08 pm
to IowaCowboy
If this landlord can't pay for a toilet replacement it is time to move, the other unit will just make her lose the property. These are not your problems and she can not raise the rent over a repair, not to mention the rent as already been raised, not sure about you but my time is money. If you pay the rent in repairs as you said, then how much money is she saving $20? If your doing it free then your not paying the rent.
Snow removal (even that's iffy if someone slips and falls they will be looking for who did the snow removal) lawn care... all fine to do. These repairs no.
My last rental, the most I did, tree fell onto the roof, I removed just enough so it was not blocking my chimney and left the rest for the landlord. The people they got just dropped the tree onto the roof, roof then leaked... called, told them. They did nothing. I left after about 6 months, basement ceiling falling down from water damage. Not my problem. House is empty almost 2 years later. My current place the most I've done paid for and installed some pipe insulation in the basement as I pay for the heat. Should have had a ROI that YEAR.
If your landlord wanted to go with a low flow toilet she would have. I have no idea why you think you need to tell her to replace it. How is it saving money to replace something that works. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:08 pm · (locked) |
LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA
2 recommendations |
to IowaCowboy
So, an untrained, unqualified, unprofessional did work on an rental you lived in, and bad things happened...
Hmm. Makes you think; doesn't it? |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:36 pm · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to IowaCowboy
Its not YOUR house, it may be your HOME but its the landlady's house. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:47 pm · (locked) |
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to IowaCowboy
All well and good to do your own repairs on a single family residence that you own when following permitting requirements and any requirements of your homeowners insurance. Maybe the people in the other unit have the same distrust of an unlicensed and uninsured handyman doing work and that's exactly what you are. I can assure you the handyman that did the work on the gas heater that almost killed you and your mother was CERTAIN what he was doing was correct. Same as you're certain every time you do work that you are doing it correct. Mistakes and accidents happen, you just don't want to be the one holding the losing hand at the end. Insurance like to make money, if something goes south in that building and the landlady needs file a claim insurance will be looking for receipts and permits from licensed tradesmen. They'll put out some effort to get out of paying out a claim. When there's none and fault is a circuit you ran or a plumbing modification you made I guarantee the landlady will be taking you to court. If you insist on continuing to do trades work in there I suggest you consult with a lawyer and have something written up for her to sign absolving you of any responsibility as a result of work you do. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:54 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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to LazMan
Especially when the guy didn't think it was necessary to secure the vent pipe of a gas water heater, putting a mother and (at the time) a 5 year old child in danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. And this was in the '80s before CO detectors hit the market. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 1:58 pm · (locked) |
LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
LazMan
Premium Member
2013-Dec-27 2:01 pm
Wow... You totally missed where I was going with that.
I'll stop before I get yet another red envelope... But my final words on the subject? Stop doing work on property you don't own!! |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 2:01 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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Which is why if I had gas appliances in this house I wouldn't touch them as it is too dangerous. If the LL insisted on hiring an unqualified individual to mess with gas appliances, I'd pay for a licensed technician myself especially after that strip club explosion in Downtown Springfield (Mass). You get paid at your next pay period, you can't replace human life.
If gas is powerful enough to level a large commercial building, imagine what it would do to a wood frame duplex. And when people come here looking for advice on servicing gas appliances, I advise them myself to hire a pro.
I was down in that area after Thanksgiving and buildings two blocks away were damaged. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 2:11 pm · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
And yet you=not a pro at toilets is possibly costing your LL.
Call a pro don't DIY when you've seen you failed once at the job. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 2:56 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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My second toilet job went smoothly, only that involved installing a brand new toilet. That one also involved the same issue with the rotted flange. I would know if this one is leaking as I would have nasty sewer water on my clean laundry as the washer and dryer are underneath in the unfinished basement. The reason I installed the new toilet downstairs is I needed one that was handicap height for my grandma. And modifications to a unit for handicap accessibility are a tenant responsibility. And I threw in a grab bar for her as well too. The toilet I installed downstairs was the American Standard Champion 4 MAX. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:14 pm · (locked) |
1 recommendation |
OldCableGuy3
Anon
2013-Dec-27 3:40 pm
God I wish this site had a downvote button. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:40 pm · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
You mean like this?
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actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:41 pm · (locked) |
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to OldCableGuy3
I wish I had another toilet.
For me, holiday toilet trouble is trying to make do with a number of guests and only one toilet in the house. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:42 pm · (locked) |
DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to IowaCowboy
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actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:44 pm · (locked) |
2 edits |
to DarkLogix
Or like this
DISLIKE |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 3:59 pm · (locked) |
IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA ·Comcast XFINITY
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to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:I wish I had another toilet.
For me, holiday toilet trouble is trying to make do with a number of guests and only one toilet in the house. Or my grandma's old house with two elderly people (who take forever) and one restroom. |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 4:06 pm · (locked) |
Hall MVM join:2000-04-28 Germantown, OH |
to IowaCowboy
Every time he posts, people a) tell him to quit doing work for the landlord and b) give him advise. See the problem ? |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 4:09 pm · (locked) |
System |
to IowaCowboy
This topic has been closed. Reason: run its course |
actions · 2013-Dec-27 4:41 pm · (locked) |