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floridaguy2
@comcast.net

floridaguy2

Anon

Cox engaging in upload throttling?

I have created, among other things, a http webserver meant for distributing my media to myself when I am at a remote location. I have noticed that upload starts fast. 25megabits/s for some period of time (a minute or so), then 19 megabits for another 5-10 minutes, then 8 megabits/s for 5-10 minutes, then 2-4 megabits/s.

I am pulling data from the webserver (cox residence) using a download accelerator because single stream performance appears to max out at about 8mbps from the get go.

I have great modem signal levels. I have a SB6141.

Anyone noticed this garbage happening to them? (perhaps on a large google drive upload (p.s. don't use chrome as the uploader--b/c google rate limits their browser's upload speed))

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

I have created, among other things, a http webserver meant for distributing my media to myself when I am at a remote location. I have noticed that upload starts fast. 25megabits/s for some period of time (a minute or so), then 19 megabits for another 5-10 minutes, then 8 megabits/s for 5-10 minutes, then 2-4 megabits/s.

so the webserver sits behind your cable connection?
what speed do you pay for on your plan? business class?

just to confirm -- are you measuring the speed in mega*bits* or mega*bytes* per second?

q.

floridaguy2
@comcast.net

floridaguy2

Anon

Correct. It sits behind my cable connection. I chose a webserver because in the past I've set up a hamachi vpn, openvpn, etc, for SMB network file sharing, but over WAN the performance tended to be dismal about 2-3 megabits per second. Using a webserver, I can enable multi-segment/multistream downloading. I just use a non blocked port, i.e. not port 80 for http.

It is a residential ultimate connection. The advertised speeds are 150megabits/second down and 20megabits/per second up.

I've noticed that if I wait a couple hours without using the Cox internet connection's upload, the upload will return to the unthrottled state.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41 to floridaguy2

Premium Member

to floridaguy2
you can not run a server. »ww2.cox.com/aboutus/policies.cox
thedunlap
join:2005-01-31
Naples, FL

1 edit

thedunlap

Member

"5. Servers. You may not operate, or allow others to operate, servers of any type or any other device, equipment, and/or software providing server-like functionality in connection with the Service, unless expressly authorized by Cox."

Have you ever uploaded a picture to facebook, instagram, picasa? Have you ever used a backup service? How about remote desktop? Ever played on an XBOX, PLAYSTATION, or WII?

Overly broad language that is not or cannot be enforced, nor is expected to be enforced is erroneous language that may be ignored. Moreover, Cox actively blocks port 80, the webserver port by default, they have not blocked port 9999 or port 1001.

The upload throttling applies to many services, beyond web servers.

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

Hard Harry7

Member

Ahh, no. Im pretty sure the spirit of the rule is you can't run web servers, which is he trying to run. He isn't uploading a picture to Facebook, he is trying to run a website from his home and probably soaking up more then his share of upload bandwidth in his area. As far as I am concerned, this would be the one area where Cox SHOULD throttle you, but I don't think they are.

What it sounds more likely that the 20Mbps isn't your QoS cap, but your speedboost cap, so your only getting those speeds for the first couple of min. Also, your upload is only as good as the download your uploading to. There couple be shaping and throttling on that side, or even somewhere in between.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

1 edit

ajwees41 to thedunlap

Premium Member

to thedunlap
the first paragraph I have created, among other things, a http webserver meant for distributing my media to myself when I am at a remote location.
nickphx
join:2009-10-29
Phoenix, AZ

nickphx to Hard Harry7

Member

to Hard Harry7
Cox blocks several inbound ports on residential lines, port 80 being one of them. I have seen slower than provisioned upload speed when using a single connection. I found that breaking up the data into smaller chunks and multiple connections seems to get around whatever QoS or rate limiting I've seen on the upstream.
Rakeesh
join:2011-10-30
Phoenix, AZ

Rakeesh to Hard Harry7

Member

to Hard Harry7
said by Hard Harry7:

Ahh, no. Im pretty sure the spirit of the rule is you can't run web servers, which is he trying to run. He isn't uploading a picture to Facebook, he is trying to run a website from his home and probably soaking up more then his share of upload bandwidth in his area. As far as I am concerned, this would be the one area where Cox SHOULD throttle you, but I don't think they are.

What it sounds more likely that the 20Mbps isn't your QoS cap, but your speedboost cap, so your only getting those speeds for the first couple of min. Also, your upload is only as good as the download your uploading to. There couple be shaping and throttling on that side, or even somewhere in between.

I think what Cox intends is that you don't run public services from your home internet connection. It's probably not a good idea to do that anyways due to availability concerns. However for personal servers that are for your own personal use, it's hard to find any reason they'd object to that.

A personal web server for his own personal use doesn't seem like a problem to me. Hell, I can promise you I eat up WAAAY more upstream bandwidth than he does, and I don't run any kind of servers. You don't need to run a server to saturate your link or even your node.

The language they have written there doesn't even permit running a peer to peer client, or even a game server. And game servers use up hardly any bandwidth at all.

With what they describe there, they may as well just stick you behind a NAT IP and call it a day.
Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Ashburn, VA

Foxbat121 to floridaguy2

Member

to floridaguy2
I fail to see what is the problem here. Cox, as well as other cable companies, always sold residential service as asymmetric, e.g. higher download speed than upload speed. Depending on your tier, your upload speed is limited to 1, 5, 10 or 20mbps with power boost.

When you download from your own web server, you are using the upload bandwidth which is typically much lower than download bandwidth.

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

Hard Harry7

Member

said by Foxbat121:

When you download from your own web server, you are using the upload bandwidth which is typically much lower than download bandwidth.

That's my point. It isn't slower just by design, but by technical limitation as well. As in upload bandwidth is in more high demand. So if we are only talking about one, maybe two people accessing the site at once, then no, I don't think Cox would have a problem. The sounded more like the argument that one can use a "website" for personal use. I know a few people that run small servers from the home for graphic files for websites they host elsewhere. I think doing so goes beyond the intention of the service IMHO.
Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Ashburn, VA

Foxbat121

Member

Not really any technical limitation. ISPs have doing this way for ages since dial-up days. Most ppl won't notice much when you have a much slower upload speed than download speed. Hence, ISPs tend to advertise download speed more and offer more bandwidth on download side than upload, e.g. spend only on bandwidth what attracts most attention.

My original reply is for OP which I don't think he realizes the difference between upload and download.

Although the no-server rules make sense but has no relationship with OP's issue.

floridaguy2
@ufl.edu

floridaguy2

Anon

I assure you that I understand the asymmetrical nature of the DOCSIS plant as well as the difference between upload and download speeds.

The only issue is whether Cox is engaging in some form of traffic shaping that rate limits or introduces additional latency into a customer's sent packets to reduce the achievable upload throughout. This appears to occur after I have sent a certain amount of packets over some period of time. The amount of time that must pass with limited to no outgoing data prior to the advertised upload throughput returning for any period of time appears to be a few days.

This is not a 150 Mbps versus 20 issue. This is a 20 megabit/second verses a 2-6 megabit/second issue. I also understand that both network paths play a role. The receiver has a 1 gigabit/second symmetrical connection. Additionally, I understand and recognize the difference between theoretical and achievable throughputs.

The prior focus on the use of a "http server" appear to be misplaced. This was used purely to overcome the single stream upstream throughput limitation that appears to be imposed or results from Cox's network management policy.

Moreover, this is not a ToS/Abuse issue because residential, as well as business internet, share the same infrastructure. I would be shocked to learn that this shaping is not also occurring on Cox's business product. If this were not the case, I would be interested in Cox's business product.

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

Hard Harry7

Member

Just because they are throttling you (the person running a website on their home service) doesn't mean they are throttling everyone. Have you tried calling up Cox security and seeing if maybe their is some kind of service restriction on your account?

So far no one has come forth confirming your results so I don't see how it could be a infrasture related unless it is very isolated. Im not trying to be a jerk or anything, but usually one who bends the rules can't look a gift horse in the mouth. Cox Business may run on the same physical equipment, but their static IPs can be routed differently and the configuration files on the modem can apply different QoS standards.

Shrapnel64
Premium Member
join:2001-01-24
VA, USA

Shrapnel64 to floridaguy2

Premium Member

to floridaguy2
I cannot directly speak for Cox, as I do not work for them. However, I would say that the "burst" of upload traffic that you're seeing is related the the "PowerBoost" technology which uses extra capacity, while available for X amount of transfer time.

Just to clarify: the issue you're seeing when you're downloading a file from your home server is Download speeds drop from 3-4 MB/s (megabytes, not megabits) down to 1-2 MB/s, or do you see KB/s (such as 800 KB/s) speeds?

I am on Cox Business Small Office Home Office (Business Internet provided by Cable Modem at Home), and I do see a "burst" of speed initially (up to 1MB/s), but then I fall back to my provisioned plan (currently 5Mbps upload or ~450KB/s).

floridaguy2
@cox.net

floridaguy2

Anon

While I agree it may be a limitation placed on my account, I certainly would not classify Cox internet as a gift. In any case, I won't keep a horse that needs dentures. Burst speeds are initially 3200-3400 Kilobytes/second (first 5 minutes or so). Then maybe 2700 kilobytes/second for an hour or two. Then, after an invisible trigger is hit, upload speeds tend to sit at around 800 kilobytes/second bursting a bit over 1000 kilobytes/second and then dropping back down.

Upload
@cox.net

Upload

Anon

said by floridaguy2 :

While I agree it may be a limitation placed on my account, I certainly would not classify Cox internet as a gift. In any case, I won't keep a horse that needs dentures. Burst speeds are initially 3200-3400 Kilobytes/second (first 5 minutes or so). Then maybe 2700 kilobytes/second for an hour or two. Then, after an invisible trigger is hit, upload speeds tend to sit at around 800 kilobytes/second bursting a bit over 1000 kilobytes/second and then dropping back down.

"IF" Cox is doing this I am glad. You are breaking the TOS, And affecting others service by maxing your upload for hours at a time.
Lame

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

Hard Harry7 to floridaguy2

Member

to floridaguy2
So, you admit saturating upload bandwidth for hours at a time by running a "private" website on your home service. How about putting your money where you mouth is and not posting anom?
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz

Member

If it really is a private server (a point on which I'm willing to give OP the benefit of the doubt - a LOT of people do this with file sharing, VPN, remote access, game servers, SlingBox/video streaming, etc) then what difference does it make if he initiates the connection from inside or outside his network? It's ridiculous to chastise someone for using THEIR OWN upload bandwidth just because the connection initiated from outside their network instead of from inside it. You can argue that the ToS makes that distinction, but there is no difference as far as the impact on the network is concerned, so in any way other than the letter of the ToS, the distinction is meaningless. Even Cox doesn't bother enforcing that technicality, unless the server is for public use.

So that said... Let's get back on topic.

What time of day are you experiencing this? Is your modem connecting to all four upstream channels? What are the power levels on the upstream channels?

20Mbps for Ultimate is the NON-powerboost speed, so you should be able to sustain that - assuming there is enough bandwidth on your node. But it's not uncommon for me to see my upload bandwidth limited by traffic on the node.

One thing you might try is checking if HTTPS or SFTP or some other encrypted connection suffers from the same problem. I suppose it's possible that Cox is seeing the HTTP traffic and throttling you, even though it's on a non-standard port, if they're doing any deep packet inspection.

floridaguy2
@ufl.edu

floridaguy2 to Hard Harry7

Anon

to Hard Harry7
I never said I saturated the upload bandwidth for hours at a time. I did say that the punitive throttling did occur for hours if not days prior to resetting to an ostensibly non-throttled state. The upload use would occur for maybe 2-3 hours a day for about 8 to 10 days per year.

I am unsure why there is so much projection in these responses regarding abuse and morality of violating the literal wording of a ToS that essentially bans things like games, backing up-data, using a vpn to home, or using remote desktop, or things like dropbox.

It is 2014. It is interesting how you assume that maxing upload usage for some undefined period of time would or should negatively impact your service [or those in my community].

Why bother with the top consumer level internet package?

I am a consumer. There is no business or commercial use. Thus, I should not be required to purchase an inflated business product for basic consumer usage that Cox advertises!

What level of usage do you pay for Hard Harry? Finally, how in the . . . do you criticize someone for not using his or her actual name in a post when I would be willing to bet that your birth certificate doesn't list your name as "Hard Harry."

I don't know if this is case of Luddism or ax grinding.